Using tape for the first time...what to take care of?

[Beardhead]

Hello,
I've got a project ahead where the band does wants to record on 2" 24trk. I don't know yet what machine it will be nor what equipment the studio has. For mixing I will transfer it to harddisc. Type of music is very slow Doom Sludge stuff. They guys will record together in one pass. There will be some overdubs, too.
I grew up on recording with digital and I normally do not much processing during recording.
So, what to take care of? What are the culprints?
Thanks a lot
Claus

[u b k]

take care of the fact that you'll probably never be fully satisfied working without tape again.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Ollie]

* Make sure the machine has been properly calibrated and the tape heads are clean.
* Make sure that the remote accurately tells you where you are. You do not want to erase over previously recorded material. *** Have someone there to instruct you on how to use the machine ***
* If the machine is in good shape, then you need to decide which speed you want to record at: 15 ips, or 30 ips. If you are doing rock, then 15 ips is probably the way you want to go.
* Drums: Kick and snare levels at roughly -5 to -3 vu will keep more of your transients and will give you plenty of level. If you hit harder, things may get mushier. Overheads you can probably go a bit higher. Not tons.
* You probably do not need a lot of outboard compression when tracking, but use it carefully. Again listen to what you are getting back. You will not need as much compression when going to tape.
* Guitars and bass around 0 Vu is fine
* Vocals - again how many transients do you want.

Best thing is to listen at different VU settings for instruments and listen back to see if you like the quality you are getting.

Originally Posted by Beardhead

Hello,
So, what to take care of? What are the culprints?
Thanks a lot
Claus

[dbbubba]

Some of this info is good and some is a bit skewed by the years and inex.... well, just know that I have been recording rock (and everything else) on analog since '75.

First, be ABSOLUTELY sure that the tape deck is calibrated properly.
I would even try to be present for the calibration and make sure it is done right.
I have known a lot of "engineers" but I have known only a few that knew how to do a tape machine set up properly.
I have known A LOT that fudged through it or assumed the machine was calibrated.
I have seen analog multi track decks in what seemed like good facilities that were neglected and NOT calibrated correctly.

If the studio has been using 30 IPS mostly they will be most familiar with that set up.
They should (an must) have a 30 IPS MRL calibration tape.
If they run 15 IPS mostly, then go with it ONLY if it is all they are familiar with, but...
MOST ROCK IS NOT AND HAS NOT BEEN RECORDED TO 15 IPS IN MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS! Not since the days of 16 track and very few on 24 track.
There would have been VERY FEW 2" / 24 track masters used on pro records... ever.
2" / 16 track is another story, but NO ONE doing serious work ran 15 IPS / 24 track.
This I promise.
I wouldn't DREAM of recording 15 IPS 24 track.... 16 track yes... and only in a few cases.

Do a test of the machine before you start doing master takes.
Put all tracks in RECORD and record and simultaneously monitor in REPRO a recorded SWEEP TONE.
It won't be 100% flat, but it should be flat within a few DBs between 50hz and 18 KHz and not fall off too far at the top.
Maybe two DBs down at 19 khz at most.
At 30 IPS the high end should stay fairly flat on out past 20 khz, but the bottom will start to fall at 50hz.
This is OK and normal.

Use the tape formula they have been previously set up for.
It will require less re-adjustment and room for messing up the calibration.
The same tape formula will probably just require a level and EQ tweaking after re-setting the bias.
A new tape formula will require a full set up (BIAS, LEVELS and EQ.)

Just pay attention to the tape position and you won't erase over the previous cut unless you are a complete idiot.
I think I have only done this ONCE in all of my years and that is A LOT of sessions!

Go ahead and record with the levels up at 0db like normal.
It sounds fine and if the deck is calibrated to the tape formula the transients will be fine.
This is what the tape was designed for.
It sounds better to load the tape up than to record like a sissy.
Do it like the pros do and did.... HIT THE TAPE!
You can slam drums, but be conservative on the OHs.
Remember that 30 IPS can tale A LOT of signal before saturation.

You WILL need to compress vocals slightly and probably bass as well.
You want to keep the signal modulated onto tape at about the same level and light compression helps.
The previous descriptions are more in line with how you record to digital than analog.

Have fun!

[Beardhead]

Thanks for all your detailed advices so far!!
Honestly I have my doubts about the calibration but will ask detailed. If it is not or the machine is in bad shape anyway, what would you suggest? Rather recording to digital (I would have done it anyway but I'm also happy to get new experiences).
Again, thank you.

[kats]

To the OP, if you aren't that familiar with tape, do yourself a favor and get a tape op to handle it.

Originally Posted by dbbubba

MOST ROCK IS NOT AND HAS NOT BEEN RECORDED TO 15 IPS IN MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS! Not since the days of 16 track and very few on 24 track.
There would have been VERY FEW 2" / 24 track masters used on pro records... ever.
2" / 16 track is another story, but NO ONE doing serious work ran 15 IPS / 24 track.
This I promise.
I wouldn't DREAM of recording 15 IPS 24 track.... 16 track yes... and only in a few cases.

Until now...

Welcome to the new reality of lower budgets and expensive tape. Another thing to mention is that "in the old days" we didn't have +9/185 tape either. You can do a rock record at 15ips and hit it harder to reduce the noise floor and it will sound very good (for rock). One thing I'm going to experiment with (a suggestion from JJ) is to set up the machine 15ips +6/185 using a CCIR curve - less tape compression and hiss, theoretically that is.

[kooz]

1. clean the heads
2. align the deck
3. clean the heads
4. record!
5. go to #1

oh yeah, 15ips gives you a nice warm thick sound because of head bump, but it'll be noisier than 30ips, so you might want to consider a studio with a Dolby rack if you're commited to 15 ips.
However, you can print MASSIVE level to tape at 30ips without NR as someone mentioned, but your tape costs skyrocket.

be sure to stripe with timecode, and leave a spacer track, especially if you're going to be dumping stuff into your DAW to mix ITB.

Me, I like 2" 16tr at 15ips, no Dolby...but would sooner work in digital if the analog multitrack is questionable.

Did I mention, clean the heads?

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

.......but NO ONE doing serious work ran 15 IPS / 24 track.
This I promise.
I wouldn't DREAM of recording 15 IPS 24 track.... 16 track yes... and only in a few cases.

huh, i guess then eddie kramer is a nobody. yeah, he is totally like, all fluff and no substance

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by u b k

take care of the fact that you'll probably never be fully satisfied working without tape again.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

+1 ....... so true. Especially when you hear the drums and distorted guitars back.

One thing to realize is that come mix time, when ever you boost the top end, you'll also be boosting some hiss/noise. Try and get at least some HF boosting in on the tracking stage before it hits tape.

Hit the tape hard! At least to see/hear what it sounds like coming back when you listen off the repro head.

When I'm tracking drums on tape, and monitoring through PT, the PT meters will often peak out when we're actually recording. But when you play back that recording all those transients will be severly reduced (depending on how hard you were hitting the tape) and it won't peak in PT when you actually do the transfer.

Personally, I like to run tape @ 30 IPS, although LOTS of folks to 15.

Don't forget to see what things sound like coming off the repro head before you start doing serious takes.

There is no "undo". Have your shit together with track sheets, notes, times on tape, etc. Get a feel for how the machine punches in. The Otari MTR90mk2 is my fav. in this particular dept.

Put some "leader tape" on your reel, on both sides as per usual.........AND, cut out some of the actual tape. Enough for it to wrap it around the reel once or twice for both sides. Put this extra tape on the ends of the leader tape. It's just a little trick to get the tape threaded on the reels because lots of times the leader tape is too slick, and it can be a pain loading the tape. Not at all necessary, but can make life a bit easier, especially if you're switching between lots of reels.

Like previously mentioned, clean the heads, etc.

When ever I'm using tape it always feels like I'm doing something really important.