I admit i'm... Mr Preset

[no drama]

When it comes to compressor's(ITB) i teak until it's well......worse than before i started.

Embrassing but true ,i have reasonable handle on general recording/mixing thus far in the short time i've been at it.

At this stage i am better off using the presets.

Is there any really user friendly out board compressor's, less dials/buttons for me to screw up .

[synthoid]

All the classic compressors have a dead-simple interface: threshold, ratio, attack, release, makeup gain. makeup gain is just a gain control on the output, so that doesn't really count. So you've got only four important knobs, each with a pretty simple, intuitive meaning. I don't think you'd find them very hard to use. (a minute to learn, a lifetime to master )

-synthoid

[no drama]

thanks synthiod
just was i was afraid of ...oh well back to the books/tweaking then the bit that works for me, the presets.

[vernier]

Before compressors were the mighty limiters, fixed ratio and no knobs ..or some with just input/output level controls.
'

[synthoid]

Dude, you gotta throw all those presets away if you're gonna get the hang of this stuff.

'Mixing With Your Mind' has a great summary of dialing in a compressor. It goes something like this:

Start with threshold set to min, ratio to max, release to min, makeup gain wherever, so long as you can hear the output well.

Send a signal into the compressor.

Dial around the attack until the leading edge of each note sounds right; pay attention only to the attack, i.e., don't worry about what happens after the onset of the note.

Now dial in the release until the whole action of the sound is right, i.e., the compressor is engaging and disengaging in a way that's right, musically. It should be unobtrusive if you're doing it right (that's from me, not from MWYM, haha).

Now pull back the ratio until it is at the minimum setting that gives you this nice effect. The idea is to compress as little as possible while getting the benefit.

Finally, pull back the threshold so that the compressor is only working when you want it to be. For most applications, the compressor should not be engaged all the time, it should pass uncompressed sound through much of the time.

Anyway, that's just a rough starting point, but it should get you thinking.

Delete those presets!!

-synthoid

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by no drama

Is there any really user friendly out board compressor's, less dials/buttons for me to screw up .

DBX 160 comes to mind.... also an LA2a.

Not a lot to screw up on those units.

[no drama]

Surely even you pro's ,use preset's even if to dial a workable sound fast .

Or is that my newbie foot is wedged firmly in my newbie mouth ....again?

[larry b]

Compressors arent really something that you find a lot of "presets" for, with certain noted exceptions such as the release times of various units such as the Daking FET II and the emulations on Crane Song's units. With compression your better off learning how to just use it properly.

I'm taking a total stab here but it sounds like maybe you are just getting your ITB comps going with far too much gain reduction (GR).

Pick your ratio depending on what your program material is. "Soft" or low ratios like 2:1 will yield gentle compression, "hard" or high ratios such as 6:1 or more will give you harder compression and beyond, into limiting.

Use auto release settings for now if your comps have them. Avoid ultra-fast attack times combined with high ratios unless you like flattening all of your transients out. This can be cool as an effect, or for purposeful compression, but avoid it for now and just deal with typical compression situations. Conversely, you probably dont want super slow attack times either.

Start with zero gain reduction, and gradually lower the threshold control until the GR meter begins to show compression action. Use your ears. Listen to what is happening to your signal. Less sometimes is more.

I use compression very often to just take the "edge" off things a bit, maybe 2-3 dB of GR max. You will find that if you use many compressors on many different elements of your mix and if all of them are working hard, say 10 dB or more of GR, your mix will be quite overly compressed. Sometimes you want a single element of the mix to have heavy compression for the effect it produces, but for most things you want to keep it light.

Again, use your ears, and watch your GR meters as you lower the Threshold control into GR action. A few careful adjustments and you should be able to pop a compressor onto anything and get some nice smooth compression.

When you audition compression on a given sound source/audio track, you may find it helpful to solo out the track so that you can really hear whats happening with the compressor. I might recommend that while this is an important way to learn to hear compresson, it's generally best (at least for me) to dial in your amount of GR while listening to the whole mix. I tend to use too much or too little compression unless i have a point of reference.

You can use make-up gain to bring the compressed signal back up to its proper level if you are hitting it really hard.

Play around with it, and the bottom line is use your ears. Some comps sound really good working hard, deep into the GR. Others do not at all and will be happiest just trimming off the peaks of your signal.

[mdjice]

LA2A I mean can it get easier then that???

[iangomes]

Originally Posted by no drama

When it comes to compressor's(ITB) i teak until it's well......worse than before i started.

Embrassing but true ,i have reasonable handle on general recording/mixing thus far in the short time i've been at it.

At this stage i am better off using the presets.

Is there any really user friendly out board compressor's, less dials/buttons for me to screw up .

i know EXACTLY what you mean, I'm at the same point with using presets

[no drama]

thanks larry B

I'll try what you have suggested , it might not sink in for a while .

Synthiod

I did read "mixing with your mind"( only once) a borowed copy and you guessed it i must have been napping through the compressor bit .

if i really had the guts i'd post a mix ... but hell ,just posting this thread was hard enough.

i'm sure my future posts will be under a new name

[larry b]

Originally Posted by no drama

thanks larry B

I'll try what you have suggested , it might not sink in for a while .

Hey no problem! Glad i could help.

Originally Posted by no drama

i'm sure my future posts will be under a new name

No worries. Keep your name. Dont be afraid to ask questions, thats what this forum is for.

[no drama]

At last i'm not on my own ,

Iangomes
there must be some corner of the GS forum we can stand in for a while and beg forgiveness ....i salute your honesty

Just in passing the compressor is the only plugg-in that i am still using the presets on

[BlytheRocks]

Thanks no drama for posting! I was experiencing this dilemma tonight while doing a mix, and it makes me more confident knowing that other people who are learning are using presets too.

Some of us are very passionate about the art of manipulating sound, and we may be young and novice, but we still have the same fire that burned inside of you when you started, and I'm sure still burns in you just as strong, if not more.

Originally Posted by larry b

Hey no problem! Glad i could help.



No worries. Keep your name. Dont be afraid to ask questions, thats what this forum is for.

So it is attitudes like this that make me fall even more in love with this forum. Thanks to everyone who is positive!

[synthoid]

Originally Posted by no drama

Just in passing the compressor is the only plugg-in that i am still using the presets on

I hope I didn't come off as discouraging or negative! I certainly didn't mean to be. When I got my first copy of Logic (a few years back), I would try putting the channel strip presets on stuff that I had tracked. I also tried some of the mastering presets on the mix bus. I got nowhere though, because I could never really understand what kind of source sound those presets had been created for, and what kind of effect they were aiming for.

It's actually much easier to insert an individual plug-in, like an EQ or a comp, with a very clear idea in your mind of what you want to do to the sound, and to dial in the controls of the plug-in from scratch to get that effect, than it is to modify someone else's preset, at least in my opinion. And the huge advantage is that as you do it, you will learn more and more about the plug-ins, so that you'll get faster and faster.

Start simple: use only EQ and comp in your channel strips (that's all there is in most hardware channel strips anyway). EQ first, then comp. Practice setting just those two. When you get the hang of those, add some reverbs and delays on aux channels or on individual tracks. Nothing on your master bus. You could mix entire CDs with just this simple arrangement of three or four plug-ins.

-synthoid

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

DBX 160 comes to mind.... also an LA2a.

Not a lot to screw up on those units.

Which 160 do you mean?

The original 160's (aka 160VU) have such lousy GR metering that with the needle just barely quivering they're already compressing a ton. And the hard knee attack can sound really harsh if you're not super careful.

The 160x/xt/a's, on the other hand, are fairly idiot-proof; you can pretty much set them up by eye, especially with the "over easy" soft knee engaged.

[Jimbo]

Aphex Compellor
SPL DynaMaxx
SafeSound Audio P1

[EstateMatt]

Submitter, you can only get away with doing this in flawed-theory.
Every drum recording is different so the same setting reacts every drum differently.


Honestly, one hour with the protools standard compressor and a snare drum and you'll be golden. I'll hook up with you via ichat video and we can do it together.

[hipass]

I have all my own Presets plus all my hardware is preset as well.

[kosmokrator]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

what a typical case: no one answers these questions in the threads here.

Read that. Try to understand. Read again. Then ask what you don't understand.

Dynamic range compression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[smoke]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

the only reference for a compressor I have is a plug-in.

Threshold is same thing as Attack (I think. please correct me if wrong) and it sort of has to do with how fast the compressor hits the signal?

Release is how fast it lets go?

and the 1:4, 1:8 measurements seem to smash to signal the higher it goes, but its also a bit hard to tell with the plug-in I am using as its kind of transparent.

Someone tried to teach me compression with this example. Hope it helps, and if it's off please correct me:

Lets say you are looking for stations on an FM radio. You turn the knob thru different stations, some are extremly loud (pop, hip hop LOL) and some are very quiet (classical, spoken word). So you have to "ride" the volume control as not to blast your speakers when approaching a station that is very loud. We've all done that.

The delay before you react when you turn the volume down is ATTACK. If you're fast, you will only allow a tiny bit of loud audio thru. If you're slow you risk the danger of blowing your speakers. If you are a computer, you have "look ahead" and you can forsee which stations are loud, so you react instantly (most of the time)

KNEE is related to ATTACK in that you may rotate the knob slowly or quickly.

When you change to a quieter station, you bring the volume back to it's previous state. The time it takes for you to do this might be considered RELEASE.

(This is the hard part of the anology)

THRESHOLD indicates that there is a certain amount of level that has to be achieved before you'll touch the knob. -11db is listenable, but if the volume ever approaches -6 you turn it down. Everytime the volume reaches -6, you react. Otherwise, you do nothing.

RATIO would be how much you turn the knob down for a given volume. If you are on a percussion station, you might turn the volume down 50% counter clockwise to keep the transients in check. If you like transients, you might turn it down 25%. RATIO is static, so you would be following this percentage... everytime the audio level crosses the THRESHOLD.

While not a direct analogy, it's enough to get your head around. Applying this concept helped me to nail compression.

[nonamesleft]

Originally Posted by no drama

When it comes to compressor's(ITB) i teak until it's well......worse than before i started.

Embrassing but true ,i have reasonable handle on general recording/mixing thus far in the short time i've been at it.

At this stage i am better off using the presets.

Is there any really user friendly out board compressor's, less dials/buttons for me to screw up .

dude...get an la3a or la2a and it all begins to make sense...haha

seriously though, you have some good advice so far, but i have another suggestion for you...one that helped me.

start off with an la3a/la2a style compressor where there are only 2 dials - gain makeup and peak reduction. Work with it on every source you can find. You will love the ease of it and begin to understand what compression is all about. Eventually though you will become annoyed with the fact that you can't speed up or slow down how fast the compression kicks in or lets go...especially on sources like drums and what not. Then get yourself a comp with attack, release, threshold, and gain makeup knobs. It will all begin to make sense at that point because you will have literally followed the path of how it basically happens in real life. You have something cool, but eventually want to tweak it because we are all obsessive freaks about sound...-=)

[joeq]

here's my Analogy - I use this with my students and it seems to clarify compression for many of them:

imagine that the volume needle of an old style hardware VU meter is not simply indicating volume but controlling it. Take it out of the case and turn it so the bare needle is bobbing up and down.



if you leave the needle alone, the music behaves normally- no compression
if you grab it with your hand - you stop the volume from going any louder (or softer)

now instead of grabbing it with your hand, stretch a rubber band across its path to slow its rise.

where you put that rubber band is the threshold
a low threshold grabs the volume needle and starts resisting its rise immediately. A high threshold means that the volume swings freely until it gets to a higher level and then the rubber band resists

how thick or unstretchy the rubber band is is the ratio.
a 2:1 ratio would be on of those skinny office rubberbands with a lot of give. It will push back on the rising needle, but not too much. A 10:1 ratio would be one of those fat produce rubberbands that wrap the broccoli. The sound has to get much louder to get the needle to move against the band.

then you could take a brick and stick it in the path of the VU needle and stop it cold and you have a brick wall limiter.


My students are also tested for being able to hear various effects. In my experience, compression is usually the hardest one for them to hear. It doesn't really change anything but how the gain varies over time, so it is pretty subtle.


The way to get away from presets is to stop using presets. What I mean is that you have to do a lot of tweaking and listening in order to make a connection between what you are doing and what you want it to sound like. Having a mental picture of what the controls are doing seems to help.

[ianbryn11]

i also use the presets.... This thread has been very helpfull.... i am gponna come back to it when i am in front of my setup so i can experiment....

[futur2]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Aphex Compellor
SPL DynaMaxx
SafeSound Audio P1

compellor & dynamxx, hard to mess up...
don't know the p1

[The Studio RI]

Here's how I usually handle setting a compressor...


Set the Threshold to -30 or so, attack to off, release around half a second or so, and ratio almost all the way up.
I then turn the attack until I can hear the compressor kick in a little too much. once I can hear an exaggerated compression, I adjust my release so that it pumps the way I want it.

Then, I set the attack so that it kicks in at the right time for the sound. Once that is set, I back off on the ratio, then the threshold, until I have just the right amount of compression.

A little bit of makup gain, a/b too hear the difference, and any fine tunings from there, and there ya go.

Hey, works for me.

[Basic Elements]

All compressors have basically the same parameters, so if you learn one you learn them all. Compression is so program dependent that it doesnt make any sense to use presets for them. When you know how to properly work one, it takes only seconds to make the settings. I recommend reading the manual of whatever compressors you can get ahold of.

[waxx]

what i always give as literature for compression noobs on a belgian forum i'm moderating is this link to the SAE Reference site:

Compressor/Expanders, Limiters and Gates

Learn this by heart and try at home and LISTEN to what happens. That's similar on how i did learn it (from a book in that time) 12-15 years ago.

[piano]

Retro STA

Not alot of controls to screw things up.

[piano]

Retro STA

Not alot of controls to screw things up.