Ribbon for heavies.

[Goldfish]

I love the M160 for classic vintage Eddie Kramer amp tone (among other applications), very defined, works best in combination with 1-2 good dynamics, and possibly a condenser if you need some room timbre. I find myself lowpassing less aggressively when using the M160. If you're not into the 121 try the R84, sounds great.

[jbjoubaud]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

C&T mics are going to be the most durable.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

More durable than a 57?! or an i5?

Come on....you've never used one have you?

It's funny how psycho_monkey is always on dylansmale back

(psycho_monkey )

[Brad McGowan]

The Heil PR30 is also another one to consider. It has a rich midrange like a ribbon but a much tighter bottom end so it likes to be placed close. It also seems to capture the punch of the amp better than the ribbons I've tried.

I think what ends up working the best for you is going to be dependent on how much low end chug your amp/cab are putting out.

Brad

[Recycled_Brains]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

More durable than a 57?! or an i5?

Come on....you've never used one have you?

Microphonium: Embedded code for Youtube video of Naked Eye Roswellite

[Texum]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

Starting a few new records and gonna be tracking a ton of guitars. Been using 57's and 421's exclusively and getting good results. I've owned a couple of 121's and never really got into them personally but I know some friends are using AEA and Coles.

What's your favorite for heavy rhythms (Marshall, Orange, Diezel)???

Looking for something durable, no whimpy mics that I'll blow. I get pretty loud! Looking for fat 3Dness.

What is it about the 121 that you don't like? Would like to know, since I'm considering getting a 121, not for heavy guitars though, basically clean and driven Fender combos.

I do like the R84, but I'm thinking it might be a bit soft for heavy guits, though. Coles I guess is pretty much out of the picture, unless you want to spend a lot of money and time on re-ribboning.

How 'bout an Sm7?

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Texum

What is it about the 121 that you don't like? ?

Just listen to their demo CD. There is not one recording done with the 121 that sounds great on that cd. They only good demos on there have a 57 along with it.

The 121 is not at all a bad mic. It's just that its only worth half of what they charge. The high spl capability may be why you need it. But there are way better ribbons like m160's or 4038's. Not to drop names but Zeppelin used m160's and 4038's. I can't think of any band that had better classic rock gtr tones. If you want a real polished gtr tone I don't feel a ribbon is the way to go but that's up to you.

Get the royer demo disk and judge for yourself. I feel it's a solid mic but not for $1100. It's like the tlm103 of ribbons. It's a $600 mic in my opinion.

I think for guitar tone nothing beats a beyer m201 or a 57 with the tabFunkenwerks tranny. Maybe along with a ribbon at 3 feet or whatever.

[James Lugo]

AEA's are being dropping off in few but I thought I get started.

421, 57 and sm7, all next to each other on same take, not phased all going through Pacificas.

No amp tweaking just plugged in and played:
Washburn 335 (Duncan 59's)>Orange Thunderverb 50>Orange 4X12 cab (V30's)

[James Lugo]

Same settings amp pre etc...

AEA R84
AEA R92

[James Lugo]

[Empire Prod]

James if you take this advice you will be very happy that you did. Get some Coles 4038's. They are one of the closest thing to magic that recording equipment has to offer. They provide a depth that is just unreal.

[GYang]

I hope to try AEA 440 with el. guitars soon.
On acoustic instruments it's unreal, the best of all other mics I've tried.
On many vocals, too.

[Keire]

m160 is a killer mic on most everything...i may come back at some point and say that it is the new 57.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by Texum

What is it about the 121 that you don't like? Would like to know, since I'm considering getting a 121, not for heavy guitars though, basically clean and driven Fender combos.

I do like the R84, but I'm thinking it might be a bit soft for heavy guits, though. Coles I guess is pretty much out of the picture, unless you want to spend a lot of money and time on re-ribboning.

How 'bout an Sm7?

You will be extremely happy with the R121 on clean and and overdriven Fender combos. Personally there is no other mic that makes me happier on Fenders.

However, for heavier stuff the R121 doesn't work the same way. It's difficult to describe until you've put in some serious time with one.

Brad

[Brad McGowan]

I think I would like all those sound clips better if the mics were closer to the dust cap. They all sound really dark and muddy to me, especially the ribbons.

Brad

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Keire

m160 is a killer mic on most everything...i may come back at some point and say that it is the new 57.

the new 57? the m160 has been around longer.....

[DesertDawg]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

What's your favorite for heavy rhythms (Marshall, Orange, Diezel)???

Looking for something durable, no whimpy mics that I'll blow. I get pretty loud! Looking for fat 3Dness.

What, it HAS to be a ribbon??? My current fav combination for heavy guitars is the Heil PR-30 combined with an Audix i5. I run the -30 through an MP2NV, and the i5 through a Mucusrite Red. Great combination of beef, drive, & snot. If you want to hear some clips, PM me with your e-mail addy & I'll send you a couple.

[picksail]

I thought the 57 sounded best James.

It had more bite and forward momentum!

Mid-range is best with it too.

[Meriphew]

I love the Royer 121 on amps. I typically use it for clean to distorted (not brutally distorted though) sounds. Generally with API pres or a Vipre. I want to try a 121 paired with a Chandler TG2.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by Meriphew

I want to try a 121 paired with a Chandler TG2.

Sounds really great on a Fender amp.

[Texum]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

You will be extremely happy with the R121 on clean and and overdriven Fender combos. Personally there is no other mic that makes me happier on Fenders.

However, for heavier stuff the R121 doesn't work the same way. It's difficult to describe until you've put in some serious time with one.

Brad

Thanks Brad, that's very helpful indeed, will try out a 121 ASAP

[Texum]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Just listen to their demo CD. There is not one recording done with the 121 that sounds great on that cd. They only good demos on there have a 57 along with it.

The 121 is not at all a bad mic. It's just that its only worth half of what they charge. The high spl capability may be why you need it. But there are way better ribbons like m160's or 4038's. Not to drop names but Zeppelin used m160's and 4038's. I can't think of any band that had better classic rock gtr tones. If you want a real polished gtr tone I don't feel a ribbon is the way to go but that's up to you.

Get the royer demo disk and judge for yourself. I feel it's a solid mic but not for $1100. It's like the tlm103 of ribbons. It's a $600 mic in my opinion.

I think for guitar tone nothing beats a beyer m201 or a 57 with the tabFunkenwerks tranny. Maybe along with a ribbon at 3 feet or whatever.

I did listen to almost all the clips on Royer page, I believe they are the same as on the CD, and I'd say I agree with you, at least to some degree, wasn't too impressed by the 121 alone. But I guess it is possible that the Royer most often was positioned in a way to work WITH another mic, and that would explain why it doesn't alwas sound good on its own. On the clips where only the 121 is used, I do feel it sounds better.

I have also locked at the 4038, probably sounds better in an ideal environment, but I'm really looking for a ribbon that can be put rather close to the amp (I really love the R84 for ambience), at least closer than a foot, and people (respected engineers, dealers and manufacturers) keep telling me that I most likely will keep breaking the ribbon in a 4038 in that position.

Also, having realized that mic placement always is paramount, I do feel that I hear some qualities in the Royer clips that can be put to good use, with different positioning, especially for my uses.

But, sorry, I digress and also hijack this thread. My appologies.

[janek 68]

I always felt that my SE Ribbon is good but Royer which i `ve tested in other studio should be better cause of tighter bottom and a bit harder, more articulated sound.Few days ago i miced 2X12 with new Scumback speakers (one 65 watt H75 and one 65 watt alnico called Scumnico) and now sound is absolutely perfect! Recently with Fanes sound through SE seemed to me a bit muddy.Now with the same soundchain (Little 59>>>FuldriveII>>>Hiwatt DR504>>>cabinet>>>TG2 or Great River>>>Mytek>>>DAW) sound is meaty,strong , full in low mids but articulated in upper mids.Highs are always great with SE Ribbon , there is always small problem with flabby , big bottom but mids are dependent on source.
So overall my opinion about microphones and recording perfect guitars ( which was aways struggle for me) is that speakers can surprise

[janek 68]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

Same settings amp pre etc...

AEA R84
AEA R92

James , with all respect - you should try with SE Ribbon it isn`t as boomy as AEA and is brighter.

[dubrichie]

i cannot BELIEVE that no-one else uses, or digs, the Coles 4040!

[Keire]

Originally Posted by allencollins

the new 57? the m160 has been around longer.....

Your not supposed to take it so literally. Its more of a flavor of the month thing.

[McPhaul]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

No amp tweaking just plugged in and played:

All of these could work in a given situation.

What did the amp sound like in the room?
Which sounded most like the amp?
Which changed the sound most?

The other thing that always gets me on mic shootouts is placement. A location that sounds great with one mic might sound like a$$ with another, but to keep the samples "fair" everything is always placed at about the same location.

I'd love to hear what the final product sounds like with each mic working at it's best.

Will

[RACKMAN]

Just for grins try a d112 slightly off center. Dave Friedman

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by picksail

Sounds really great on a Fender amp.

I've heard nothing but praise for that combo.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by picksail

I thought the 57 sounded best James.

It had more bite and forward momentum!

Mid-range is best with it too.

That's because it was probably placed the best for where an SM57 typically likes to be placed. All of them sounded too far out towards the edge of the cone, especially the ribbons.

I also have to second the sentiment that the Royer demo CD clips for guitar are not as stellar as some of their other clips.

If anyone wants to hear what the R121 sounds like on a Fender combo with a Fender guitar listen to the track called "Drawbridge" by my band. The main guitar is a Strat into a blackface Princeton with an R121 through an ME1NV. The placement was dead center about 8-10 inches away. The other electric later in the song is a Tele Deluxe through a Dual Showman and 2x12 cab. It was R121, likely through a Pacifica.

MySpace.com - Plot Against Rachel - BERKELEY, CALIFORNIA - Indie / Emo / Powerpop - www.myspace.com/plotagainstrachel

Brad

[James Lugo]

Well I spent some time with mic placement and phasing and I love the 57/R92 combo. Been tracking my Dave Friedman modded Marshall and my Orange Thunderverb. The AEA R92 is great.