The ultimate pre-amp question thread

[Dean Roddey]

I'm looking to pick up a pre-amp. I've done a lot of research, but would like to get some opinions. Clearly, from everything I've read, pre-amps are the most important thing by far. So I've decided to spend $50 on mics, room treatment, converters, and monitors, and put the remaining $10,000 into a pre-amp, because that'll get me the best results I'm sure. So I'm looking for a $10,000 pre-amp that would be optimal for my style of music, which is mostly kind of in the Emo-Polka genre, with a little bit of Tuvan Metal Throat Singing.

I've looked into many pre-amps but have heard bad things about all of them, such as being slightly harsh in the 2000 to 2002Hz range, creating nano-fluctuations on the leading edges of odd numbered soft transients, poor results due to one too few or too many windings on the input transformer, lack of pure oxygen free silver internal connections, and inferior knob polymers which affect electron flow in some orientations, all of which I think would be very bad for my music. And many pre-amps it would seem are both very mid-forward and very mid-scooped at the same time, which of course would make them flat overall and that would be totally unacceptable.

I would like a pre-amp that caresses the high frequencies, as though they were the fine hairs on the belly of a baby kitten, so that no matter what I record it will sound silky and smooth and never harsh. They must be extremely, incredibly, massively present, but unhyped. And the lows should be soft and billowy and enormous, like the breasts of my nanny when I was a child. All electical components must be hand made, new old stock, fashioned between the years of 1957 and 1958, during warm but not humid weather conditions, in either Germany or the southeastern US. I've been told that only with these specific components will the mid-frequency transients be accurate to sub-nano-second tolerances while remaining as smooth as butter.

It must be tube based, of course, that doesn't even need to be stated, though for some reason I just did. The tubes must be hand made, to the strictest tolerances, by men named Jergen or Heinz, and they must cost more than $1000 per tube, or I've been told there will be no chance of their providing the level of sound quality I require. I've spoken on the internet with many people who can tell the difference between two tubes of the same batch, without even turning the pre-amp on, and they all agree that very expensive tubes are absolutely critical. I've had constructed an electro-magnetically sealed, environmentally stable enclosure for the pre-amp, so that the tubes will be able to operate within one deci-degree of their optimal temperature at all times, completely free of external interference.

Since I have $10,000 in my pre-amp budget, please do not recommend anything less than $10,000, even if you think it sounds better than anything else, or suggest that I spend some of the budget on other things. This is the most important part of my studio, and I must spend exactly this much. I've had the advice of many people on the internet whose names and signatures assure me that they are experts in this area, and I will not be deflected from this well researched course.

[jchas]

With or without DI?
Single or dual channel?
Digital or Analog meters?
Please be more specific...

[Dean Roddey]

Just in case it wasn't glaringly obvious. that was supposed to be parody of the ultimate pre-amp question, not a serious one. It's hard to imagine anyone would miss it, but I'm just sayin'...

[casey_outlaw]

What you're looking for is the Boringer AntiMatter Vacuum Tube Preamp AKA the BAM!!Vtp. It is wired into the input and output transformers of your local power substation, and it's sleek 30 rack space design hold a glass vaccum tube filled with antimatter particle accelerating goodness. It is best used with microphones that have a diamond studded capsule. I can record the astronauts aboard the space station from my backyard, with zero latency, with this combo. It's faster than the speed of sound, and detailed enough to hear a monkey pissing: dfegad If you can't hear that, you need the BAM!!Vtp.

[Sky]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I've looked into many pre-amps but have heard bad things about all of them, such as being slightly harsh in the 2000 to 2002Hz range

ROFL Classic!

Sky

[Doublehelix]

What you're looking for is the Boringer AntiMatter Vacuum Tube Preamp AKA the BAM!!Vtp.

Casey, Casey.... you are sooooo out of touch man! That BAM!!Vtp is so yesterday!

They have released a new version, called the BAM!!Vtp PRO


Get it together please if you are going to post on here!

Sheesh!!! Some people!!!

[DesertDawg]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Since I have $10,000 in my pre-amp budget, please do not recommend anything less than $10,000.

I have a mid-priced, average preamp which I replaced the a/c cable on with one of these...

http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/168

...the sonic difference was so great that I have now deemed it to be a $10,000 preamp - call me, i'll sell it to ya.

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

my style of music, which is mostly kind of in the Emo-Polka genre, with a little bit of Tuvan Metal Throat Singing.

The funny thing is that I would probably love this band!!

[malaclypse]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I'm looking to pick up a pre-amp. I've done a lot of research, but would like to get some opinions. Clearly, from everything I've read, pre-amps are the most important thing by far. So I've decided to spend $50 on mics, room treatment, converters, and monitors, and put the remaining $10,000 into a pre-amp, because that'll get me the best results I'm sure. So I'm looking for a $10,000 pre-amp that would be optimal for my style of music, which is mostly kind of in the Emo-Polka genre, with a little bit of Tuvan Metal Throat Singing.

I've looked into many pre-amps but have heard bad things about all of them, such as being slightly harsh in the 2000 to 2002Hz range, creating nano-fluctuations on the leading edges of odd numbered soft transients, poor results due to one too few or too many windings on the input transformer, lack of pure oxygen free silver internal connections, and inferior knob polymers which affect electron flow in some orientations, all of which I think would be very bad for my music. And many pre-amps it would seem are both very mid-forward and very mid-scooped at the same time, which of course would make them flat overall and that would be totally unacceptable.

I would like a pre-amp that caresses the high frequencies, as though they were the fine hairs on the belly of a baby kitten, so that no matter what I record it will sound silky and smooth and never harsh. They must be extremely, incredibly, massively present, but unhyped. And the lows should be soft and billowy and enormous, like the breasts of my nanny when I was a child. All electical components must be hand made, new old stock, fashioned between the years of 1957 and 1958, during warm but not humid weather conditions, in either Germany or the southeastern US. I've been told that only with these specific components will the mid-frequency transients be accurate to sub-nano-second tolerances while remaining as smooth as butter.

It must be tube based, of course, that doesn't even need to be stated, though for some reason I just did. The tubes must be hand made, to the strictest tolerances, by men named Jergen or Heinz, and they must cost more than $1000 per tube, or I've been told there will be no chance of their providing the level of sound quality I require. I've spoken on the internet with many people who can tell the difference between two tubes of the same batch, without even turning the pre-amp on, and they all agree that very expensive tubes are absolutely critical. I've had constructed an electro-magnetically sealed, environmentally stable enclosure for the pre-amp, so that the tubes will be able to operate within one deci-degree of their optimal temperature at all times, completely free of external interference.

Since I have $10,000 in my pre-amp budget, please do not recommend anything less than $10,000, even if you think it sounds better than anything else, or suggest that I spend some of the budget on other things. This is the most important part of my studio, and I must spend exactly this much. I've had the advice of many people on the internet whose names and signatures assure me that they are experts in this area, and I will not be deflected from this well researched course.

wow, thats EXACTLY what i'm looking for! my ART tube mp isn't doing it for me anymore, though it comes very close to what you are describing. i need something with transformers that have been forged by archangels out of star metal and quenched in the tears of a thousand children.
so.....bump?

[softwareguy]

Most wickedly balls-on accurate parody post of all time!

ROTFLMAO (with my eyes bulging out!)

Thanks, and I will now return to doing my Saturday chores a changed man!

[redrue]

Who was the guy that had:

Stop the mic-pre madness

in his sig?

I've always wanted to put that on a
T-shirt and give'em out at AES...

(probably go over like a lead microphone)

[warhead]

<insert comment about hookers and blow being more worthwhile>

War

[Dean Roddey]

Yeh, don't understimate how important hookers and blow have been for the music industry as well, and even more expensive.

[riffster]

This is without a doubt the funniest post I have ever read here. Well done.

[weemies]

Okay, that post is gold.

[casey_outlaw]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Yeh, don't understimate how important hookers and blow have been for the music industry as well, and even more expensive.

When it comes to hookers, I always need three. Two for sex, and one to beat up.

Is that the one you were looking for Dean, War?

[R3k]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Just in case it wasn't glaringly obvious. that was supposed to be parody of the ultimate pre-amp question, not a serious one. It's hard to imagine anyone would miss it, but I'm just sayin'...

jchas just owned you, and really, im disappointed that your are really not as black as your 1st post led me to believe.

Just saying

[Cato]

If all you have to spend is $10000 you won't really hear a big difference. I would save up until I had at least $23000 to throw at the problem. With that pre you won't even have to record music anymore just the sound of warm transformers is enough to please my clients.

[tINY]

But what converters are you running it into?




-tINY

[Dean Roddey]

The converter is an M-Audio USB converter. As I've already explained, but I guess you weren't advanced enough to understand, if you spend $10,000 on the pre-amp, it doesn't matter what converters or monitors or or mics or room treatments you use. The pre-amps is the important thing. I've budgeted $50 for that other stuff, so that should be plenty.

[virtualsamana]

Originally Posted by tINY

But what converters are you running it into?

Plan to spend about $50K-100K on different converters and another $25K on different external clocks if you really want your pres to shine. That way you'll have all your bases covered. I use different converter/clock combos depending on what sound I am going for. Some excel at capturing transients and detail (Prism Dream AD-2 with Big Ben) while others are great for thicker gooey sounds (UA 2192 with isochrone atomic). I'll use my aurora with a BLA microclock when I am tracking garage rock (great for grit!!!). Note: Stay away from the Lavry stuff since it doesn't do 192 yet (when will they step into the 2000s BTW?!!)

Do you ever throw up a mic and record only to find that you have to spend time moving the mic before it sounds good? That's a sure sign you need to upgrade your pres and AD. I find the more I buy converters, clocks and pres the less I have to worry about mic placement. If the gear is right it is so easy to get 'that sound' you don't really have to worry about placement anyway. YMMV

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I'm looking to pick up a pre-amp. I've done a lot of research, but would like to get some opinions. Clearly, from everything I've read, pre-amps are the most important thing by far. So I've decided to spend $50 on mics, room treatment, converters, and monitors, and put the remaining $10,000 into a pre-amp, because that'll get me the best results I'm sure. So I'm looking for a $10,000 pre-amp that would be optimal for my style of music, which is mostly kind of in the Emo-Polka genre, with a little bit of Tuvan Metal Throat Singing.

I've looked into many pre-amps but have heard bad things about all of them, such as being slightly harsh in the 2000 to 2002Hz range, creating nano-fluctuations on the leading edges of odd numbered soft transients, poor results due to one too few or too many windings on the input transformer, lack of pure oxygen free silver internal connections, and inferior knob polymers which affect electron flow in some orientations, all of which I think would be very bad for my music. And many pre-amps it would seem are both very mid-forward and very mid-scooped at the same time, which of course would make them flat overall and that would be totally unacceptable.

I would like a pre-amp that caresses the high frequencies, as though they were the fine hairs on the belly of a baby kitten, so that no matter what I record it will sound silky and smooth and never harsh. They must be extremely, incredibly, massively present, but unhyped. And the lows should be soft and billowy and enormous, like the breasts of my nanny when I was a child. All electical components must be hand made, new old stock, fashioned between the years of 1957 and 1958, during warm but not humid weather conditions, in either Germany or the southeastern US. I've been told that only with these specific components will the mid-frequency transients be accurate to sub-nano-second tolerances while remaining as smooth as butter.

It must be tube based, of course, that doesn't even need to be stated, though for some reason I just did. The tubes must be hand made, to the strictest tolerances, by men named Jergen or Heinz, and they must cost more than $1000 per tube, or I've been told there will be no chance of their providing the level of sound quality I require. I've spoken on the internet with many people who can tell the difference between two tubes of the same batch, without even turning the pre-amp on, and they all agree that very expensive tubes are absolutely critical. I've had constructed an electro-magnetically sealed, environmentally stable enclosure for the pre-amp, so that the tubes will be able to operate within one deci-degree of their optimal temperature at all times, completely free of external interference.

Since I have $10,000 in my pre-amp budget, please do not recommend anything less than $10,000, even if you think it sounds better than anything else, or suggest that I spend some of the budget on other things. This is the most important part of my studio, and I must spend exactly this much. I've had the advice of many people on the internet whose names and signatures assure me that they are experts in this area, and I will not be deflected from this well researched course.

This belongs on the hip hop forum!!!

[Dean Roddey]

Do you ever throw up a mic and record only to find that you have to spend time moving the mic before it sounds good? That's a sure sign you need to upgrade your pres and AD. I find the more I buy converters, clocks and pres the less I have to worry about mic placement. If the gear is right it is so easy to get 'that sound' you don't really have to worry about placement anyway. YMMV

Who art thou, so wise in the ways of science?

[Deuce 225]

This is the baddest ass Emo-Polka Band workin today.

YouTube - Gogol Bordello Live

[DIGIT]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I'm looking to pick up a pre-amp. I've done a lot of research, but would like to get some opinions...

Since I have $10,000 in my pre-amp budget, please do not recommend anything less than $10,000...

Well, being new on this forum I don't want to start off by offending anyone but, you are way under budget for this. No matter what you are recording, one pre-amp just isn't going to cut it.

Let's talk about vocals, for starters: As an expert, having recorded Artists from all over the world, in many different languages, I can safely state that different pres sound best with certain syllables and not others. So, to get the BEST possible results you have to match the syllables with the correct preamps. It's just a fact of life (I am not going to talk about matching microphones with pres which is another topic).

This of course can be a tedious process which is why I have developed my own custom system called Programmable Syllable Pre-Amp Switching System (PS-PSS or PSyPASwiSy (PseePahSweeZee)). The system consists of a very sophisticated, high-end, digitally controlled switching hardware and a custom written software which analyzes the syllables and assigns them to the best matched preamps, in real time, during tracking. The software is available as a stand alone or as plugin for all major DAWs. The PSyPASwiSy is totally modular allowing you to assign as many discrete pre amps to as many syllables you want to treat independently. Needless to say, the more you add the better the result. I use a 256 syllable system for my studio. You could start with a 24 syllable and add them as you need to.

Basically, the system works as follows: you have the singer run through the part(s) you need to record. The signal is then split into as many pres as you have chosen for isolating syllables. Let's say the basic 24 syllable setup. That would be 24 tracks. Now, before every one says "hey, you are splitting one signal into 24 tracks, there will be loss..." I Know but, this initial recording pass is ONLY for analyzing the syllable content of the performance and will NOT be used for keeps.

At this point you run my custom software plugin which will analyze the performance and pick the BEST pre for the syllable content of the track. When the track end the program automatically stores the correct pre-amp switching sequence to RAM and to a FILE location within a folder of your choice. The great thing is that the software listens for the syllables so, even if you change the tempo or the singer phrases differently for the real takes, no problem. All the proper syllables will be assigned to the proper preamps, in real time, as the performance is being recorded.

Because the software actually allows a few milliseconds of pre and post roll for each of the syllable tracks it will not cut off of any part of the phrase. It's flawless.

I can build a basic, 24 syllable system for about $240,000 USD (+S&H). Kosher wiring and components will add about 16% to that cost as would the addition of specific dialects syllables.

I also have a similar system designed for string instruments, such as guitars, whereby each string is assigned to a different pre and each fill or solo can also be assigned to different pre, to better match a particular genre, playing style, string quality, pick or fingernail thickness, body material and even barometric pressure and/or humidity.

So, again, don't mean to burst your bubble but, the truth is what it is. Us EXPERTS have an ethical mandate, indeed a duty to tell it like it is. And that's all I am trying to do here.

All the best,

GP

[virtualsamana]

Where can I buy this software? Does it require and ilock?

[vincentvangogo]

You want the ERP 2000

[NoamLavi]

the BAM!!Vtp PRO now features the "much higher Z" instrument input for even higher Z the ZZ TOP!!!

i shull use it with my huge SSL 192 input consule w/ 19" LCD screen per track with a mini jack output to my mp3 mastering device...

[Kronos147]

I thought that the $10,000 mic pre is only valid when using a coat hanger for a wire.

[Deuce 225]

This thread gets my vote for "Favorite Thread of 2008" and so I would like to see more people "Get It". Read the original post. Bump

Tim Cochran