How many of you are using two different overhead mics ?

[exfakto]

Im curiouse about this. I read somewhere that Fletcher does this from time to time. Id like to know how does this work for you guys ? What mics are you mixing and matching for drum overheads ?

[84K]

I do not think it is a good idea to use different mics on the Overheads. The key to overheads is placement. Use a matched pair of mics, stereo pre, matched EQ, and compression. You can compress the (2) mics a little differently, if you want that effect.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by 84K

I do not think it is a good idea to use different mics on the Overheads. The key to overheads is placement. Use a matched pair of mics, stereo pre, matched EQ, and compression. You can compress the (2) mics a little differently, if you want that effect.

I disagree but YMMV. I have used plenty of unmatched pairs over the years and I never once had a problem. In rock and roll tracking and mixing I think the whole matched pairs thing is a bunch of hype.

I had a pair of KM184's that I just sold. They were not matched and I would strongly doubt that in a dense and compressed rock mix you would be able to tell a difference. I know I never did. Classical or maybe jazz, you might notice for sure but pop/rock..... forgetaboutit.... Again YMMV

As far as having to use the same type of mics on each side of the overheads... again I disagree but YMMV as well. I have used all kinds of crazy combinations with great results. Now to be fair I never pan overheads wide anymore, maybe like 3 and 9 o'clock if I am going really crazy so that may account for the difference.

Yes Fletcher and a few others were talking about just this a few months back and people were having great results. Fletcher even said he used a R121 and a R82 I believe for overs and was loving the sound (not that that counts for much, he is not a god or anything but he does know his gear). The thread was about using ribbons for overheads but I can't seem to find it when I search.

Anyway as matter of fact I am going to be getting a 4040 this week to go with my R121 for overheads. Should be cool.

[brownmouse]

i have been using a soundelux u-195 on the ride side and a gefell m-930 on the hat side (although today i'm gonna try switching them up). i do have a pair of josephson c42's that are used for a completely different flavor.
joshua

[84K]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

I disagree but YMMV. I have used plenty of unmatched pairs over the years and I never once had a problem. In rock and roll tracking and mixing I think the whole matched pairs thing is a bunch of hype.

I had a pair of KM184's that I just sold. They were not matched and I would strongly doubt that in a dense and compressed rock mix you would be able to tell a difference. I know I never did.

I only work with Rock and Blues music. The idea of Overhead mics being matched/unmatched/or different all together is very subjective. After all, I use anywhere from 3-16 mics on a drum kit depending on the song and the sound we are trying to achieve. Therefore, the Overheads play a different role in different situations. In certain instances, you are completely correct, it does not matter. In others, it can be detrimental to the song.

It also depends on what mics you are using. I have used KM184s as overheads, and with those, I agree that it would not matter. They get the job done, but they will (most-likely) be "featured" less in your drum sound then 4038s or elam 251s for example. Another factor is, the newer mics come out of the box closer to a match then vintage mics. Besides, With all respect, I try to make rock music that does not sound dense and overly compressed.

Originally Posted by not_so_new

As far as having to use the same type of mics on each side of the overheads... again I disagree but YMMV as well. I have used all kinds of crazy combinations with great results. Now to be fair I never pan overheads wide anymore, maybe like 3 and 9 o'clock if I am going really crazy so that may account for the difference.

That's cool! A perfect example of my comments above about how the different techniques place different importance on the OHs.

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Yes Fletcher and a few others were talking about just this a few months back and people were having great results. Fletcher even said he used a R121 and a R82 I believe for overs and was loving the sound (not that that counts for much, he is not a god or anything but he does know his gear). The thread was about using ribbons for overheads but I can't seem to find it when I search.

Anyway as matter of fact I am going to be getting a 4040 this week to go with my R121 for overheads. Should be cool.

The 4040 should be amazing! Congrats!!! There are many ways to skin a cat and even more ways to record a drum kit!! Whatever works. IMHO, I error with matched 4038s (maybe 4040s are better, I haven't had the pleasure), but I will say, you CAN record a great drum track with different mics. ....Just not the #1 way to do it in my book (if you have the option).

[kevinc]

When I use 2 different mics as overheads I tend to get an imbalance of kick or snare in one speaker when I pan them. I really like my kick and snare to be dead center so it`s a fight even when the overheads ARE the same mic. I usually end up just doing the drums in mono if I can`t get it right. I`m a bit obsessive about it.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by kevinc

When I use 2 different mics as overheads I tend to get an imbalance of kick or snare in one speaker when I pan them. I really like my kick and snare to be dead center so it`s a fight even when the overheads ARE the same mic. I usually end up just doing the drums in mono if I can`t get it right. I`m a bit obsessive about it.

Yep.. as I said above....

Now to be fair I never pan overheads wide anymore, maybe like 3 and 9 o'clock if I am going really crazy so that may account for the difference.

The less wide you pan the less the difference. Usually I am talking about panning 1 and 11 o'clock or so, maybe 2 and 10 and if I am feeling kooky 3 and 9 but that is not very often. Large stereo panning fro drums is very unnatural to me but on the other hand most rock production is about unnatural sounds in context of the mix.

Again YMMV....

[84K]

Originally Posted by kevinc

When I use 2 different mics as overheads I tend to get an imbalance of kick or snare in one speaker when I pan them. I really like my kick and snare to be dead center so it`s a fight even when the overheads ARE the same mic. I usually end up just doing the drums in mono if I can`t get it right. I`m a bit obsessive about it.

Me 2. The trick is placement. The relationship between how hard the drummer hits the snare, cymbals and kick drum all effect that balance. Every drummer is different and every room can give different results. It can be a Mother F'er sometimes!!

[toledo3]

I've always been a mono overhead, stereo room kind of guy.....but I completely agree with you 84k- it is different for different songs.

The reason, for my own projects, that mono overhead, stereo room tends to work for me, is that it maintains punch and focus in the middle- and adds stereo effect, WITHOUT making it seem like the drums stretch across the entire mix.

Now, if it is a sparse song, making the drums stretch wide could be appropriate- but since I am working mostly on my own music the last few months, I am digging the drums sitting in the middle, with other elements wide.

That said, for harder rock stuff, it sometimes ends up being all close mics, and mono room. No overhead in the mix.

[Dragonfly]

A typical setup for me might be a spaced pair of KM86's on overheads, an XY pair of 89's abover the snare, and some room mics as far back as possible in a equilateral triangle with the kick, usually KM86's but sometimes 121's or Earthworks TC40's.

9 times out 10 I'll use the 86's on the overheads, but sometimes the 89's offer something new or work better on that given day, but I like to have options available to me. I also prefer omni to cardiod with my overheads.

Dante

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by toledo3

I've always been a mono overhead, stereo room kind of guy.....but I completely agree with you 84k- it is different for different songs.

I concur.

Mono overhead behind player's right shoulder. Placed for phase coherency with kick and snare.

Stereo room mics (SDC) either on the floor in front of kit, or maybe a ribbon arrangement (Blumlein) about 6' - 8' back from the "centre" of the kit.

Yummy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - cymbals sound the most "natural" to me when recorded from a distance. Close miking cymbals loses the transient and harmonic complexity that develop when miking from a distance. IMHO, as always.

Cheers,

bdp

[Pgsmusic]

Hi.
And what do you think to use a 414 Uls and a 414 XLII like overheads?? it´s because i have an 414XLII and somebody sell me an ULS more and less Cheap..
(I´m not in my best time of money )