AT 4050 on guitar cabs?

[snedley]

Hey,
anyone try thiese on crunch(dirty) guitar?

[keiffer]

I've tried over the years and generally I end up going to another mic... I only have one 4050 and it seems honky on thick guitar.

If you like a somewhat scooped tone and don't care to afford a 421, try a 609S. I've never cared for a Condenser unless in a supporting role for a Dynamic.

-kp-

[cgarges]

I've used it a bunch and dug it in certain situations. When it works, I've generally got it in figure-eight facing straight-on and anywhere from 8" to a couple feet away.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Norman Lindsey]

i've found it useful on clean guitar at a distance and phased against a close mic '57 on the grill. better than an RE-18 anyday .

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Norman Lindsey

i've found it useful on clean guitar at a distance and phased against a close mic '57 on the grill. better than an RE-18 anyday .

I agree, word for word (except I haven't used an RE-18 on gtrs.)

4047 too, out in the room. One of my co-horts swears by 4050 out in the room plus that Audix (not sure of the model...i5?) that people use on cabs.

[snedley]

Thanks everyone......I was thinking of buying an R84 but wondered if what I already have would suffice.....I find 57s honky.
I have a U195, the 4050, o12, nt5s, GT66, 57s.

[keiffer]

Originally Posted by snedley

Thanks everyone......I was thinking of buying an R84 but wondered if what I already have would suffice.....I find 57s honky.
I have a U195, the 4050, o12, nt5s, GT66, 57s.

I have a R84 and it's very dark. It can work and EQs very well, but it's dark...

Based on your goal, look at the R92.

Here's a clip R84 vs R92 from Matt Ashman the designer of the R92

The R84 is the left channel recorded about a foot from the amp,
placed just slightly above the speaker, the R92 is about 5 inches from
the grille 2 inches or so off-center on the cone.

Still, consider a 421... it'll complement your 57 very well.

[snedley]

Thanks sonixx.
I was planning on using the R84 on acoustic and vocals as well......
Isn't the 92 quite a bit more $?

[Waylon]

It is one of my favorite electric guitar mics... HUGE if you place it right, merciless if the tone or room isnst happening. a 4050 coupled with a Royer, a 421, a 57, or whatever else is handy does it for me 90% of the time.

[keiffer]

Originally Posted by snedley

Thanks sonixx.
I was planning on using the R84 on acoustic and vocals as well......
Isn't the 92 quite a bit more $?

No, the R92 is a bit less. Actually you could almost get a R92 and a used 421 for the price of a R84.

BTW, the R84 is excellent on acoustic guitar and vocals. Actually, the R84 is great on a lot of stuff.

Let Warren at Front End Audio give you a quote...

[Jay Kahrs]

If your considering ribbon mics on electric guitar, don't rule out a Royer R-121. They sort of kicked off the whole ribbon's on guitar thing. And FWIW, I'd probably take an R92 over the R84 for guitar since it's a bit more open and less congested in the mids. Either one works, but when your playing a game of inches I'll take all the help I can get.

[snedley]

Thanks Jay,
I have also condiered the R121 but thought the R84 would be more usefull in other areas......Acoustic , vocals, etc.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by snedley

Thanks Jay,
I have also condiered the R121 but thought the R84 would be more usefull in other areas......Acoustic , vocals, etc.

The R-121 is cool on acoustic guitar if you like some "meat" to the tone, if you're looking for a brighter "modern" acoustic sound you'd want to use a condensor mic like a 451 or C42. Though, for vocals I'd have to give the edge to the AEA mics. The 121 sounds a bit "closed" to me even when using the back of it, but a lot of people do use them for vocals and like the results. YMMV. The best thing to do is try them both and see which is more useful for you.

[Tim L]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

... don't rule out a Royer R-121. They sort of kicked off the whole ribbon's on guitar thing...

Hmmm, and here I thought people like Hendrix (among others) where using M-160's for e-guitar on a regular basis over 35 years ago...

The 121 is indeed a killer dirt guitar mic though I do tend to place it in tandem with some kind of dynamic cardioid (421, e604, 57, etc). Personaly, I've never been able to get anything I liked out of it where vocals were concerned... at least not yet anyway.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Tim L

Hmmm, and here I thought people like Hendrix (among others) where using M-160's for e-guitar on a regular basis over 35 years ago...

Truth, though I was talking about the more modern incarnations of using ribbons on guitars. And while we're at it, it's MUCH harder to blow up an R121 then an M160. It's just another thing to keep in mind when you put a mic anywhere from 2-10" from a screaming 50 or 100 watt halfstack. The standard rule of thumb is "don't put a ribbon anywhere you wouldn't put your own ears".

[Tim L]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Truth, though I was talking about the more modern incarnations of using ribbons on guitars. And while we're at it, it's MUCH harder to blow up an R121 then an M160.

It is indeed...

It's just another thing to keep in mind when you put a mic anywhere from 2-10" from a screaming 50 or 100 watt halfstack. The standard rule of thumb is "don't put a ribbon anywhere you wouldn't put your own ears".

It's a good rule... but it's 'plosives' that blow ribbons usually, not volume. I've never blown any of the 160's I've ever used... YMMV?

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Tim L

It is indeed...

It's a good rule... but it's 'plosives' that blow ribbons usually, not volume. I've never blown any of the 160's I've ever used... YMMV?

Plosive's can come in many many forms. Have you ever stood a half foot away from a 50 watt (tube) guitar amp that's churning out 104dBspl or more? Your pant legs/leg hair will flap around and brother...that'll rip a ribbon mic to shreads with a single palm mute. Been there, done that..found better tools.

[Tim L]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Plosive's can come in many many forms.

No shite huh?

Have you ever stood a half foot away from a 50 watt (tube) guitar amp that's churning out 104dBspl or more?

Sure have kiddo... I try to avoid such nonsense myself... silly me.

...that'll rip a ribbon mic to shreads with a single palm mute.

Shreads?... Shreds maybe. Like I said... plosives will blow a ribbon not volume... pull the mic just off to the side of that same 104 dBspl spewing speaker.. out of the direct blast.. and you can get in pretty close without blowing the ribbon...

Been there, done that..found better tools.

It makes my heart warm to hear that you've come to such lofty knowledge...

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Tim L

Shreads?... Shreds maybe. Like I said... plosives will blow a ribbon not volume... pull the mic just off to the side of that same 104 dBspl spewing speaker.. out of the direct blast.. and you can get in pretty close without blowing the ribbon...

Moving the mic off-axis will yeild a different sound then it being directly on with the speaker, and that may or may not be a good thing. For me, close micing means the mic is about 6-10" away from the grill and on-axis to the speaker which puts any mic in the direct path of a lot of moving air.

But to get to the crux of it, what is a plosive? A lot of wind/air movement in a very short blast, a trumpet or other brass instrument can create that. So can a mouth, so can a guitar amp, so can a drum etc. I'd rather use a mic that I know can handle the job without any possible issues, it could be a Senheisser 609 or a Baby Bottle or an R-121, but old RCA's and Beyer M160's aren't on the list because they'll get wasted too quickly. And even if it doesn't pop the ribbon, it can totally stretch it and will change the sound of the mic.

Originally Posted by Tim L

It makes my heart warm to hear that you've come to such lofty knowledge...

Smart ass fuuck

[Sounds Great]

How much do you want to spend?

I've tried a lot of mic's there (JMP50 head, 4X12 bottom w/ Fender green backs).

The 4050 was finally the one I settled on, until Ty Ford recommended I try the Gefell M900. This is a most beautiful thing for distorted (and clean) electric guitar. Set you back about a grand, though.

Take one for a test ride, I bet you keep it.

[Tim L]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

... Beyer M160's aren't on the list because they'll get wasted too quickly...

I sure am glad all those artists and engineers who've used them successfully on loud dirt guitars over the years didn't know that...

Smart ass

Me? You betcha!... but only as a returned favor.

Have a good one Jay...

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Sorry for the detour the thread's taken folks.. we return you now to your regularly scheduled programing...

[usamike]

I just used my new Gefell UMT-70s on a loud guitar amp for the first time a few days ago and I was blown away. Nothing harsh about it and beautiful midrange. Check out the Gefells!

-Mike

[nodie33]

I love the 4050 on really distorted guitars... With the right placement I find it to sound less boxy than my e906. It can have harsh highs so you have to play with the placement. I personally like to track with an e906 and double the guitars with the 4050.