Twin Reverb or Deluxe Reverb for Rhodes

[BradD]

I'm keeping my eyes open for a Stage 73 Mark I Rhodes and am wondering about amps. The 22 watts of a Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 reissue seems much more manageable in my studio than an 85 watt Twin Reverb. I have heard though that 22 watts is not enough for the Rhodes and that it is not good for the amp to run a Rhodes through an amp of that size. I'd also be using this amp for guitar of course and it's only for the studio. I'm afraid the Twin is way too loud, but I don't want to go with the Deluxe if it's not enough amp for the Rhodes. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

Brad

[jnorman]

hi brad - those are both guitar amps, and i would worry that hard hit low notes from the rhodes might distort on you. i would be looking for a dedicated keyboard amp. i could be wrong here, but i know my synth and old 73 were too much for my guitar amp.

[aermotor]

Fender Bassman could be killer for that as well.

[henryrobinett]

What jnorman says -- but between the two. It's no contest. Twin. If you HAD to.

[Brad McGowan]

Twin all the way! Fender actually voiced the Rhodes for the Twin Reverb...at least that's what I read.

On second thought you may want to look at the new Princeton Reverb reissue. It's even smaller and more manageable and will have much of the same tone as the Deluxe. It sounds huge if you hook it up to any larger 2x12 or 4x12 cab.

If you like that super clean sparkly Rhodes tone then you might just want to get a REDDI and be done with it. On my band's last record I reamped all our Rhodes through my Twin Reverb. On the record I'm doing right now I decided to just use the REDDI DI. I only reamped bass parts.

Brad

[BradD]

Thanks, all. I think I'll keep my eyes open for a Rhodes and a Twin.

[kafka]

Twin, hands down. I don't think it's a "if I had to" circumstance. It's just a great amp for a Rhodes. I don't know about Fender voicing the Rhodes for the Twin (it wouldn't surprise me), but it is typically the amp that was paired with the Twin when the Rhodes was made. I don't think you usually saw dedicated keyboard amps of that vintage, because there just weren't a lot of keyboard options back then. You do need the extra power and speaker area of a Twin for the low notes. It's pretty hard to make a Twin distort. Try one out first if you can. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Oh, BTW, see if you can get a Showman or Dual Showman instead. These are the head versions of essentially the same amp. You'll have more versatility if you can swap out speaker cabinets, and the Twin weighs a ton.

[khai]

I had a Rhodes Suitcase for years and also a Twin reverb. The twin doesn't have the warmth, roudness and thickness the suitcase amp has. You might think it sounds nice on a twin, but not after you listen to a suitcase. I've always been skeptical about this rumour that the Rhodes was designed with the Twin in mind.

[ebot9000]

Twin sounds fabulous. Gives it a nice brightness that isn't there in the direct signal or a keyboard amp. Don't believe the hype, just cuz it's a "guitar amp" doesn't matter. It sounds great, and it's been done a million times..

It's a very different sound from the suitcase. The suitcase has stereo tremolo which is pretty much God's gift to warm keyboard sounds. The Twin is much brighter and puts the Rhodes in a slightly different register. Great for soloing, and it can distort if you want it to (all about gain staging and how you play the Rhodes). The Twin makes the Rhodes stand out, bringing out the tines, more while the suitcase's amp makes it blend in more. Another nice thing about the Twin is the spring reverb, which sounds great on Rhodes.

It's a classic sound, you should be able to work with it just fine! Rhodes through a twin: Think Chick Corea circa 1970s, and that's the sound. Rhodes suitcase with tremolo: I always think of Richard Tee on Roberta Flack's "I'm The One."

[chrizzle]

i'm wondering that nobody yet mentioned the ROLAND JAZZ CHORUS.
it's a fantastical amp for rhodes.
very clean, super belly if you like and good reverb and a superb stereo-chorus/vibrato.

in the good old days, all the rhodes stage were tested one twinreverbs, so they are also the amps the rhodes is built for.

it really depends on your idea of the sound and your playing style!

sometimes i like my MK1 best just straight through a good DI-box!

cheers
c

[richiepalooza]

2 Twins would be even cooler.

[dbbubba]

Man!
A Twin hands down because you need ALL of those 85 watts!

A suitcase has un-believeable amounts of low end WHOMP.
I'd think that a dual 15" Fender cab with a Showman or a Dual Showman would be in the same realm.

You could make the ow notes on a suitcase feedback quite easily!

Maybe it is because the Rhodes suitcase KYBD was physically connected to the amp cab, but you could FEEL your low notes!

[Brad McGowan]

The bassist in my band actually plays a Fender Rhodes (well we sold the Rhodes 73 for a Nord Electro...damn club stairs) through an old Traynor YBA-2 Custom Special that I modded for 6550's. She plays that into a Traynor 8x10...predecessor to the Ampeg 8x10 supposedly. Tons of low end. We actually don't have a proper bassist. It's all Rhodes.

Where does this myth that you can't distort a Twin Reverb come from??? That's complete hogwash. If you plug a P90 or humbucker equipped guitar into the #1 input of the reverb channel you will get breakup anywhere over 3.2 on the volume, which is about the same point that the amp starts to get some balls in my opinion. I'm talking about a non-master volume AB763 circuit here with good tubes properly biased. Now the normal channel on the Twin Reverb...that actually can go to about 4 or 5 before it will break up.

I've found that the Twin Reverb breaks up at about the same point on the volume knob as any other Fender amp with reverb (extra gain stage). It's just a hell of a lot louder. Twin Reverbs are either off or LOUD!

Brad

[AB3]

In 1974, I had a Fender Rhodes suitcase model with TWO fender twin reverb amps. It sounded great. If only I still had it!

[Alfonse]

Twin by far! I have not found a better amp for keyboards. Crisp. clean, clear sound. 85 Watts, for great presence. The '65 Twin reissue is it! The very characteristics which make it a limited guitar amp, makes it perfect for, say, electric piano. These things don't break up man!

[swafford]

We always used a '69 Twin for our 88. Sounded great.

[cosmik_debris]

i have a rhodes coming in. i also have a silver face 77 twin reverb. good match? or are you guys talking about the black face? vintage vs. reissue??

[The Real MC]

Yes a Twin will break up.

Depends on which era Twin.

In the order of less breakup to more:

Silverface master volume > Silverface non-master > post-CBS blackface > pre-CBS blackface > Tan tolex > Tweed

The silverface Twins are the best match to the Rhodes as they were made during the same era. In the early 80s they made a 185 watt "Super Twin" that had ultra-linear output transformers which were really clean and really loud. Bet that was popular during the balls-to-the-walls heavy metal overdrive days

My personal favorite Rhodes amp is my "croc-skin" Selmer Twin Thirty. It's thirty watts used only for recording but really unique sound, really cleans up the mud and creates a nice dynamic timbre that is controllable from your fingers.

[Apollo Soul]

Originally Posted by ebot9000

Twin sounds fabulous. Gives it a nice brightness that isn't there in the direct signal or a keyboard amp. Don't believe the hype, just cuz it's a "guitar amp" doesn't matter. It sounds great, and it's been done a million times..

It's a very different sound from the suitcase. The suitcase has stereo tremolo which is pretty much God's gift to warm keyboard sounds. The Twin is much brighter and puts the Rhodes in a slightly different register. Great for soloing, and it can distort if you want it to (all about gain staging and how you play the Rhodes). The Twin makes the Rhodes stand out, bringing out the tines, more while the suitcase's amp makes it blend in more. Another nice thing about the Twin is the spring reverb, which sounds great on Rhodes.

It's a classic sound, you should be able to work with it just fine! Rhodes through a twin: Think Chick Corea circa 1970s, and that's the sound. Rhodes suitcase with tremolo: I always think of Richard Tee on Roberta Flack's "I'm The One."

Great. Thanks for that. Will listen to those tracks to get a feel for the role of the amp. Been wondering this one myself.

[Apollo Soul]

Originally Posted by The Real MC

Yes a Twin will break up.

Depends on which era Twin.

In the order of less breakup to more:

Silverface master volume > Silverface non-master > post-CBS blackface > pre-CBS blackface > Tan tolex > Tweed

The silverface Twins are the best match to the Rhodes as they were made during the same era. In the early 80s they made a 185 watt "Super Twin" that had ultra-linear output transformers which were really clean and really loud. Bet that was popular during the balls-to-the-walls heavy metal overdrive days

My personal favorite Rhodes amp is my "croc-skin" Selmer Twin Thirty. It's thirty watts used only for recording but really unique sound, really cleans up the mud and creates a nice dynamic timbre that is controllable from your fingers.

Any distortion in the low register on the Selmer? How does it compare on the top end? More or less bite than others mentioned?

[Jim Williams]

In the 1980's we recorded Stevie Wonder's modified Rhodes through 2 twin reverbs with JBL's. Hear them on all those records.

They are also recorded direct, via the RCA jack on the harp. Use a 1 meg ohm input impedance DI and it sounds great. Use a very short cable.

[Brent Hahn]

I was bad, but I played keys with a band for a while, and both my Rhodes and my Wurli sounded great with a silverface Twin. And the Twin into a closed cab, either Fender or Marshall, was even better.

I never tried it, but I would think a Rhodes at gig volume would blow a Deluxe to bits.

[recorder2]

What you need is a Twin Custom 15. It's a Twin Reverb with a single 15" speaker instead of 2x12". A lot more appropriate for amplifying a Rhodes IMO.

[danohss]

I have both a twin and a bassman available, d.g.bowen@comcast.net. Im in the midatlantic

[Draytone]

I have a buddy with a Rhodes and he actually prefers playing through solid state amps. He finds a lot of guitar amps seem to colour the Rhodes sound a little too much for his liking. Prefers something a little more transparent, and less coloured.

[drbob1]

The thing that Fenders don't do well is bass. The speakers were mostly underspec'd for the bass extension the amp could put out, so you have to turn it down or gets "flubby". Bottom line, even at quiet levels a Deluxe Reverb is going to sound bass shy. The Twin is better and has big enough transformers to "hit" the notes harder as well. Even better a Twin with JBLs or Altec Lansings. Even better (as mentioned) a Dual Showman with a sealed cab with 2 JBLs. And sure you can overdrive a Twin. All BF/SF Fender start to overdrive about the same place on the volume dial, they just do it at different overall volume levels (with the exception of the Bandmaster and the Tremolux which just don't have high enough plate voltages to overdrive till higher on the dial).

[The Real MC]

Originally Posted by Apollo Soul

Any distortion in the low register on the Selmer? How does it compare on the top end? More or less bite than others mentioned?

It's a bass-shy amp and it will distort the low end if pushed too hard. Not a problem for me anyway, I play the top 2/3 of the piano most of the time.

I bridge the two channels and use the pushbutton tone switches to bring out the bell tone and remove the mud. The top end is really clear, those EF86s are nice on a Rhodes. Because it has a tube rectifier, it gets punchy when you slam the Rhodes. Combine that with the mild tube midrange overdrive and you have nice control of timbre through your fingers.

mp3 sample of that setup (it's an older recording, the hiss in the piano since has been fixed)

[Papanate]

The amp included with the Rhoades was a version of the Showman.
And the Cabinet had 2 15" speakers.

[Grin-go-go]

If you're looking for clean sound Roland Jazz Chorus can do the job. But I love Twin Reverb with Rhodes. Cheers.

[The Real MC]

Originally Posted by Papanate

The amp included with the Rhoades was a version of the Showman.
And the Cabinet had 2 15" speakers.

The Showman is a tube amp. Suitcase amp is solid state with 4x12 not 2x15. Not at all the same.