Eventide H3000 & Eclipse sound differences

[echo unit]

Functionally, the Eventide Eclipse is two H3000's so it is obviously more powerful in what it can do but based strictly on sound quality alone how do these two units differ, which one sounds better and more musical and which one do you prefer?

I have read posts where people say that they changed the convertors to new ones for the Eclipse and this has made the effects sound very different from the H3000 even when using the same algorithms on both units. Any comments on this?

I am interested in having only one Eventide product and I do ambient type music inpired by the likes of Eno/Lanois/Budd/Brook/Sylvian and other great people.

Thanks for any input on this one

[thethrillfactor]

I am one of those.

The older H3000 converters do sound different.

I prefer the dual H910 and micropitchshift delay programs on them.

They blend better with vocals and you can hit them harder than the newer units.

I also own a DSP7000 and love that for what it does also.

If you want the older quality, run the outputs of the Eclipse through a pair of older units like some SPX90's or PCM42's in bypass.

Or even better if you can find one an ADR Panscan.

[echo unit]

Thanks Thrill,

Besides the convertors being cleaner and more hi-fi on the Eclipse, do you think that the actual effects, the algorithms in the Eclipse are as good and sound as good as the H3000...do the pitch shifters track as well and have that genuine Eventide sound? And what about the other effects?

Reason I am asking...I own the Eclipse and I am very dissapointed when I hear people saying that it is not as good as older technology protoduct from the same company and not a real Eventide in the way it sounds. After spending a lot of money on this unit, I am kind of mad at Eventide for claiming that the Eclipse is a much improved sounding version of the H3000. I am thinking of selling it and getting an old H3000 even though it won't be as powerful and flexable.

I like programming the Eclipse and find the factory presets mostly tasteless so I adjust a lot of the parameters and create routings between the two possible algorithms to get what I want out of them but the kind of algorithm creation that the DSP and H8000 offer seems quite intimidating and time consuming to me. I really don't want to delve that far into the physics of algorithm creation..I would rather just have the 20 or so parameters to tweak and same myself a lot of time.

I know that the H8000 musit sound better but the structure of it scares me.

If patched into the Eclipse and the H8000 both digitally staight to the DSP and bypassing the convertors, do you think that the actual DSP engine and algorithms of the Eclipse sound as good as the H8000's? I know there is more variety in the H8000 but shouldn't the sound quality be the same on similar algorithms?

What's your take on all this and if you had the Eclipse but didn't want the scary algorithm from scratch creation process of the DSP and Orville and H8000 units would you keep the Eclipse or get an older H3000 and sell the Eclipse? money is not an issue here. I bought the Eclipse out of the fear of the learning curve of the H8000. I don't want to spend the rest of my life programming an Eventide. I'd like to make some music and get some good tone.

Thanks Thrill for your help

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by echo unit

Thanks Thrill,

Besides the convertors being cleaner and more hi-fi on the Eclipse, do you think that the actual effects, the algorithms in the Eclipse are as good and sound as good as the H3000...do the pitch shifters track as well and have that genuine Eventide sound? And what about the other effects?


Thanks Thrill for your help

The algorithms i believe are the same.

I had the Eclipse on trial for a day or two and got rid of it.

It sounded too much like an H3000(which i already had) minus the vibe.

The DSP7000 was there next generation in a stereo package.

I think with the Eclipse you should be able to do some of the tricks you can do on the H3000.

The H8000 DSP is next generation and no it won't sound the same.

The DSP7000,Orville,H8000 have a lot of cool patches to start with.

I wouldn't worry too much about the programming setups either.

[edIT]

A little off topic, I have an H-8000 and it is one serious bad ass mofo. I also have a Kurzweil KSP8 and the H-8000 smokes it in soundquality and quality of the patches. Haven't tried the Eclipse. But the H-8000 is also one seriously expensive mofo as well.

[achtung baby]

i sold my H3000 after i got my eclipse. the H3000 sounded great but was beginning to develop serious reliability problems. i've found the eclipse to sound a slight bit better and was a hell of a lot more powerful. between the eclipse, orville, and H8000 eventide has really made some incredible pieces. i use them all on just about every project in some form or another.

[Gerax]

I really do like my Eclipse; as far as I can remember it's cleaner and a bit more modern sounding than the H3000s I had in the studio I was assistant in, but also consider that I'm running it digitally in and out to my Pro Tools rig; the machine is geared toward sound manipulation and rather extreme effects, so much that I got to use it extensively on one of the last projects I completed, in which one of the Eclipse presets really had a major creative impact on sevral songs (running the full mix thru it and then bringing the result on a printed track slid underneath the original clean unprocessed mix for an "etheral" feel I needed for some passages).

Hope this helps

L.G.

[SnakeCained]

I tried and reviewed the Eclipse when it came out and thought it was good but buggy. Got one about six months ago and with the New software upgrades and it smokes!!!!

Much more reliable than the old H3000 and great and very useful 96khz AD/DA.

Soundwise? very close in terms of the fx and overall quality; a little cleaner which may or may not suit current audio fashion.

But still people worship at the altar of the 3000

[deft_bonz]

I use my H3000 in every project. I love it. But at the same time I dream of a H8000 I will buy one day

[echo unit]

Lorenzo, Gearax

Which program did you use extensivley on a current project of yours?

Everyone else who own or want to own an Eclipse or Orville or H8000 or H3000 or H3500 or DSP4000, 7000, 7500

Which Eventide programs and algorithms are your favorites and which ones do you use the most?

Mine is the Vintage Delay in the Eclipse I actually was the one who suggested they write this program and Italo delivered. Pretty amazing company.

I have been trying to convince Italo and Eventide that they need to put vintage Pitch shift algorithm in the Eclipse and the other units. This would offers the delay , pitch change and other specific functions and specific sound qualitiy characteristics of the very unique and holy grail of pitch changer /delay processors-

The AMS DMX 1580s.

It is the old original Pitch shift unit made in England and used heavily by Eno and Lanois on all thier earlier Productions and Ambient music albums. It came before the Eventide in around 1980 I think. It's a scary looking box. Looks like something out of a NASA mission control station. People often confuse the treatment on the high infinite guitar sound on U2's "With or withour you" with the H3000 "Crystal Echoes" program. It is actually the AMS DMX 1580s creating this high strings synth like texture as the H3000 wasn't even on the market yet when the Joshua Tree came out.

Treat ment on high "infinite guitar" With or Without You by U2

The AMS did up the octave pitch shift delayed with feedback that made the pitch shift climb up an octave and then up another and so on with each repeat of the delay feedback going up in octaves until it was in-audible to the human ear. Then this went out into the Yamaha SPX 90 and into the Reverb>symphonic program 100% wet to make the pitch stuff all smoothed out , smeared, wet and them modualte the reverb tail with this wide Symphonic thing which was a multi-voiced chorus. Very orchestral treatment. Everyone thinks this was an Eventide on Crystal Echoes! It was the AMS!

The AMS DMX 1580s had the most amazing texture. kind of rolled off, dark top end and grainy lo res sound due to the early digital technology limitations but this thing is so vibey and has so much more character than the clean precise Eventide pitch shift. It allows the sound of the pitch shift to blend in and gel with the music better than the Eventide which has that "chipmuks" tone to it on the pitch shifter that is just too bright for some things where you want subtlety.

It's just what you need to add some character and un-predictableness to you music. Listen to Bob Dylan's Time out of Mind album. Lanois used this unit on the entire record for Bob's Vocal sound. Kind of a panoramic slap echo effect.

100ms delay left side with +9 cents on the pitch shift, about 15% regeneration
200ms delay right side with -9 cents on the pitch shift, about 15% regeneration

Very cool.

Maybe you guys who own the Eventide can gang up on Italo and Eventide to make the AMS DMX 1580s vintage pitch shift algorithm a reality. It would be so useful to have a pitch shift algorithm with hi and lo filters and the lo-res textureed sound of the AMS like the vintage dealy has to color your shifts just how you want them. Ever since the vintage shift algorithm was made..I have used the Eclipse about 75% more than I was before. That algorithm is so key and offers the sound shaping tools to make your delays sound just rioght with music like modulation capabilities and build in filters and EQ as well as the Vintage and Modern textures.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by echo unit

Maybe you guys who own the Eventide can gang up on Italo and Eventide to make the AMS DMX 1580s vintage pitch shift algorithm a reality.

Uhhhh...nah!!!

I have an AMS DMX 1580S already.

It will never sound the same because of the converters.


Same goes for the PCM 42,SDE 3000 and Korg SDD3000.

These are classic delays that have a signature all their own.

I am not crazy about "remake textures".

I prefer to buy the originals.

[jbuntz]

H910 have a pretty crazy vibe too. H3000's remind me of "Nevermind," "Siamese Dream" etc. We've got an H3000 and an eclipse and the eclipse is not racked.

[echo unit]

Yes I understand that these units have a character that is un-matched, even by a company like Eventide with all thier advanced algorithm work. The actual circuitry used in them was all very different.

My question is, do you think it's worth it nowadays to buy something like an
AMS DMX 15802used from ebay or elsewhere, where you don't know what you're getting?

I am sure these units would cost a fortune to fix if there is even anyone around that can do it. Are the parts and chips inside still available or out of production a long time ago?

Does your AMS 1580s have any probelms?

Any place you might recommend buying an AMS DMX from? Where did you get yours?

Last but not least, you mentioned a bunch of delay units- Korg SDD3000, Roland SDE 3000, Lexicon PCM 42.

Which dedicated outboard delay do you think is the very best one? The one to have if you could only have one of them?

I got the 2290 by TC because it is still being made. That is incredible that they are still in production considering what is inside and how much it must cost to produce these. I would add the 2290 to your list as well as the Lexicon Prime Time Model 93 for delays.

The 2290, Korg SDD3000 and Roland SDE3000 all have similar features. Which one of these three is the best or the one to have?

I want to buy some of these older effects units but a bit nevervous about ebay. Is there a better place to get these devices?

[Froombosch]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Uhhhh...nah!!!
It will never sound the same because of the converters.

I am not crazy about "remake textures".

I prefer to buy the originals.

The problem is that there are only few people who understand how to to really rebuild these structures. Most of the remakes are boring.

But it is possible to do it right. It takes a lot of effort, knowing the structure, the schematics and then tweaking till it sound right.

I have done that with the Dimension D clone inside the 8000.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

If you want the older quality, run the outputs of the Eclipse through a pair of older units like some SPX90's or PCM42's in bypass.

Or even better if you can find one an ADR Panscan.

Now THAT is a useful tip that I'm looking forward to trying. That might even work on some plugins if thats all one has to use. I use plugins to mimic the dual H910 and micropitchshift delay programs. I'm gonna try bussing them out to a pair of SPX90's in bypass mode.

Thanks for sharing that one Thrill.

The only problem now is that I'm gonna have a rack full of SPX90's in bypass mode.

Shane