How do i get a good snare sound
Peyton
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#1
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
How do i get a good snare sound

as far as micing i'm using a SM 57 placed directly under the drum, but when i'm doing a sound check everything sounds right but the sane just like a click or somthing unsnare drumish, also as far as toms should i mic then on top of the drum or under the drum. I want them to sound really deep and heavy
#2
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #2
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JonCraig's Avatar
 

i rarely end up using a bottom mic on snare. and when i do, it's never been a 57. try it on top of the drum, *and move the mic around until it sounds good*! drums (and every single other acoustic instrument) sound drastically different just by moving the mic a couple of inches, and/or by changing the angle of the capsule relative to the source. taking that extra two minutes up front will save you hours come mix time.

--jon
Peyton
Thread Starter
#3
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #3
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonCraig
i rarely end up using a bottom mic on snare. and when i do, it's never been a 57. try it on top of the drum, *and move the mic around until it sounds good*! drums (and every single other acoustic instrument) sound drastically different just by moving the mic a couple of inches, and/or by changing the angle of the capsule relative to the source. taking that extra two minutes up front will save you hours come mix time.

--jon
what mic would you recomend on the snare?
84K
#4
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #4
84K
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84K's Avatar
I think Jon was referring to the "under" position of the snare you mentioned... A 57 is great for the top head. Jon summed it up. I would mic the top head instead of the bottom... that is if you can't mic both.
#5
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #5
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 

( caution: BLATANT BLEIFUSS SNARE PIMPING IN THIS REPLY

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#6
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #6
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Drumsound's Avatar
 

Does the snare sound good in the room? If not you'll never get a good recording. How's the player. If they do't know how to draw a good tone from the instrument you'll also have to fight that.

Make sure the snare sounds good in the OHs first. When getting sounds and when mixing start with the OHs and add the SD mic as needed.

I prefer to mic the top of the snare or the shell is I'm not getting the body I need. I like the ATM 23HE and the Beyer M88. I haven't used a 57 on a snare in years.

Move you mic of choice around untill you like the sound whn it's blended with the OHs.

Use a preamp that's fast enough to not distort the transients., or slow enough to not make them sound brittle.
#7
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K
A 57 is great for the top head.
Since when?

I've always felt to dull a sound.

I much prefer either micing the rim with it or a combination of half rim and half top.

It really comes down to the snare and how and where the drummer hits it.
#8
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #8
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Drumsound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Since when?

I've always felt to dull a sound.
Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
I much prefer either micing the rim with it or a combination of half rim and half top.
If forced into a 57...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
It really comes down to the snare and how and where the drummer hits it.
UES, YES, YES!
84K
#9
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #9
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Since when?

I've always felt to dull a sound.

I much prefer either micing the rim with it or a combination of half rim and half top.

It really comes down to the snare and how and where the drummer hits it.
Any snare drum that sounds great in a room with a good player hitting it. The point is the 57 is a great mic for the top head area... it can be the rim the edge, the head, whatever. You never can tell someone placement until you are in the room with the drummer. The room alone can cause need for adjustments. Not to mention the style of music, the way the drummer hits, the way the drum is tuned, etc. I was more referring to mic'ing the top over the bottom if you only have one mic/input and the fact that a 57 can get the job done well.
#10
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K
Any snare drum that sounds great in a room with a good player hitting it. The point is the 57 is a great mic for the top head area... it can be the rim the edge, the head, whatever. You never can tell someone placement until you are in the room with the drummer. The room alone can cause need for adjustments. Not to mention the style of music, the way the drummer hits, the way the drum is tuned, etc. I was more referring to mic'ing the top over the bottom if you only have one mic/input and the fact that a 57 can get the job done well.
I still don't like the the SM57 directly on top.

I get songs to mix like this all the time where the snare mic track is totally dead and thuddy and i know it was an SM57 on top.

It takes alot of work to massage a usable sound.


Just an opinion.
84K
#11
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #11
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
I still don't like the the SM57 directly on top.

I get songs to mix like this all the time where the snare mic track is totally dead and thuddy and i know it was an SM57 on top.

It takes alot of work to massage a usable sound.


Just an opinion.
Right on Thrill. I hear you. I agree that it is easy to make a 57 sound thuddy and bland on the top head of a snare, but it is also easy to make it sound great with good placement and a good chain. What is your go-to mic on the Snare top/rim?
Peyton
Thread Starter
#12
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #12
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
rather than using the SM 57 what should i use i also have some shure PG56 drum mics. Also should i be using SM 57s or PG 56's on the toms. I also hear that the Audix D6 sounds better than the shure PG 52 and the shure Beta 52 on bass drums is this correct. As far as the snare. its a picaelo snare tuned really high and loud the room is 12x14 feet.
#13
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K
What is your go-to mic on the Snare top/rim?
451, 414. Anything but a 57
Peyton
Thread Starter
#14
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #14
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman
451, 414. Anything but a 57
451? 414? band name?
#15
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #15
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton
451? 414? band name?

Tandy.




(akg)
#16
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #16
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thermos's Avatar
I am a drummer and everytime someone uses something other than an sm-57 on the snare, it sounds like crap to me. The best sounds I have ever heard played back have been a 57 miced on top, (right above the rim say by an inch) maybe slightly pointed in to the center of the drum. The bottom mic may add 3%, and may subtract 20%.
If a drummer sucks though, the best mic you can use is sound replacer.
Peyton
Thread Starter
#17
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #17
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman
451, 414. Anything but a 57
haha i just look those mics up and theres no way i'm butting a $1000 mic around any drum set
84K
#18
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #18
84K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos
I am a drummer and everytime someone uses something other than an sm-57 on the snare, it sounds like crap to me. The best sounds I have ever heard played back have been a 57 miced on top, (right above the rim say by an inch) maybe slightly pointed in to the center of the drum. The bottom mic may add 3%, and may subtract 20%.
If a drummer sucks though, the best mic you can use is sound replacer.
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
84K
#19
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #19
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman
451, 414. Anything but a 57
414 I can see, but 451
tutt
84K
#20
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #20
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton
haha i just look those mics up and theres no way i'm butting a $1000 mic around any drum set
Don't worry. You do not need to spend $100. If you work it right you cannot beat the 57. Tried and tested. It is a God on the snare when the drummer is good, the room is right and the engineer is competent.

If someone has a situation of: a good drummer, good room and good gear... if they cannot get a good snare sound with a 57 they should get a new job.
Peyton
Thread Starter
#21
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #21
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Thread Starter
would the SM 57 work good on over heads? or would i be better off using the shure KSM27 for over heads?
84K
#22
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #22
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton
would the SM 57 work good on over heads? or would i be better off using the shure KSM27 for over heads?
Now the limit is pushed. I would not go there. I am unfamiliar with that Shure mic, but I would never use the 57 as OH mics.
Peyton
Thread Starter
#23
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #23
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K
Now the limit is pushed. I would not go there. I am unfamiliar with that Shure mic, but I would never use the 57 as OH mics.
what about the PG81 XLR
#24
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #24
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

i have used numerous cheaper mics on top of the sanre easily. so have many people used a 57 on top. i kinda like my CM700 on the snare top, a SDC that can handle high SPL. with a rise @ 5k that catches teh crack nicely. but just give me anymic and ill make it work./


i like a mic on the side of hte snare more.
#25
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #25
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K
Now the limit is pushed. I would not go there. I am unfamiliar with that Shure mic, but I would never use the 57 as OH mics.
ive recorded a whole album with just 57's... and some oddball mic on kick.
#26
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #26
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thermos's Avatar
Km 27 might be fine on overheads. With my relatively small home rig I use Shure Ksm 32s on oh, and they sound great. (better than sm 81s and I prefer to most 414s). 57s probably no on the overheads though, I always view high end cymbal information as the icing on the frequency cake, thus condensers are best.
#27
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #27
Gear addict
 

The first problem is that while recording the drums, someone must be present to recognize that the drums sound like ass or they are in the wrong area of the room. Next, if the snare doesn't sound great in the overheads, correct this. It doesn't seem to make sense that your snare mic should be responsible for 100% of the snare sound. Hell, it's the loudest thing in the room. Next, an engineer needs to choose a microphone/pre that will compliment what is actually happening. Not blindly plugging a possibly beat 57 into a groovy, possibly tired, out of spec neve, sticking it one inch from the drum, and compressing it to tape. I personally like a 57 most of the time, except for jazz. Old 451w/pad and swivelmount is another fav. I hear what your sayin Thrillfactor, and share your pain, but I'm not ready to fully blame the mic. Good gear makes not so good tracks quite often. Oh well!


chris rival
#28
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #28
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Henchman's Avatar
Let's not forget. New skins.
#29
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #29
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Thank God for Drumkits from Hell.
#30
23rd May 2005
Old 23rd May 2005
  #30
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Doublehelix's Avatar
 

I am not a fan of the SM57 on the top of the snare either. I am in the process of evaluating a whole new set of mics for the snare top. I love putting an MD441 on the snare bottom, it really "cracks"!

On our most recent project, I was getting so frustrated with the sound I was getting from the SM57, that I threw on a cheap Superlux PRA228a that was sitting around from my 15 YO son's live rig, and it was just the ticket for this particular kit/player/style. We used it for the entire session! $50, dripping wet!

As mentioned, the answer to this question "depends" on so many things, and will probably be different from session to session. Mic pres are going to make a difference too, so there are so many variables here...room/kit/player/style/pres ,etc.

This week, I am going to try these guys out, most-likely through my API or Telefunken pres:

-Audix I5 (I have heard good stories and bad stories here...time to try myself)
-Shure beta 56 (A modified beta 57)
-a cheap SDC (Rode NT5?)
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