Questions about Drum Mic Setup?

contramark · 23rd May 2005, 02:27 AM

Hi Im planning to turn my apartment room into a studio this summer to record my rock/indie style project and Ive now realized drum-loops are not going to do the job for me, so I need last minute type advice to get a decent sound. The room I will be recording in is a bedroom about 20 feet by 10 feet with an above average height ceiling (carpet/drywall). Im not looking to mic every drum, more importantly cant really afford it, but rather trying to get the job done with 3-4 mics, similar to a beatles style drum sound with most importantly a loud kick and snare. My kit is only a 4 piece with 2 cymbals. My microphone collection and budget isnt exactly impressive as im a college student, but I currently am running Cubase SX 2 on an RME Fireface with a Studio Projects C1 and a couple of SM-57s. I also have a presonus MP-20 that im thinking of selling now after I got the fireface and have been doing some A/B w the fireface onboard preamps and feel they should be able to get the job done. Desperately want to get my hands on a great-river preamp but just dont see it happening this summer.
So im thinking the easiest solution would be to get another C1 and use the 4 mic technique (C1 to left of hi-hat, C1 to right of floor tom w both pointing towards snare equal distance, 57 snare, 57 kick). Would this solution be very roomy sounding? Id rather not buy the C1 then have to figure this out. Is it possible to tape like studio foam on one side of a large-diapram condensor mic to reduce room sound. I do have use of a UAD-1 card and hydratone eq, and im hoping my 1176 will help squash the drums alot. I really want the snare to be an in your face type of sound not like its coming from across the room.
Any advice would help. Thanks alot.
-Mark

the1Hub · 23rd May 2005, 02:40 AM

check out this fletcher with great info using three mics on a drum kit.

also read this

and if you do a search on this forum for "wittman drum" it will bring up a lot of good threads

contramark · 23rd May 2005, 02:51 AM

thanks for the link. good stuff. for the two large condensors should they be a matched pair? Should i find another C1 or would any other mic work? I might be able to find enough money to get my hands on a Blue Baby Bottle Mic, would this benefit me?

contramark · 23rd May 2005, 03:36 AM

-also is possible to place a cover/foam over one side of a large condensor microphone to get less of the room sound? in a rectangluar room, 20feet by 10 feet what the ideal place to setup drums?

sorry lots of questions, hopeing i can get some good advice. thanks.

JonCraig · 23rd May 2005, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by contramark

-also is possible to place a cover/foam over one side of a large condensor microphone to get less of the room sound?.

quite the opposite. if you block the rear-entry ports/back diaphragm of a mic, you're preventing the cancellation that makes the mic's polar pattern in the first place. to say it another way: if you block the back of a cardioid mic (in hopes of making the pattern tighter) you're actually denying the mic its ability to be cardioid in the first place. worse than that, you're not doing it evenly across the audible spectrum (a towel/blanket won't do much below 200 Hz or so) so the pattern will vary wildly depending on frequency, also.

want to experiment? plug in a 57 and listen to it on headphones. now put masking tape around the sides of the capsule. hear a lot more room now? this is an extreme version of what you're doing w/ blankets.

sorry for the long post.

--jon

Drumsound · 23rd May 2005, 05:01 AM

Personally I'd rather have a mono OH and a room mic. It sounds like you don't want a room mic. Why is that? Used lightly in a mix a room mic can add a lot of dimension without sounding "roomy." Or you can make it really loud during a intro or a breakdown and have some nice motion in the mix.

If you really smash things with the 1176 is gonna bring up the room tone (even if it's the SD mic you are smashing).

the1Hub · 23rd May 2005, 05:03 AM

you should not cover the mic.

ive tried it both ways with matched sets and unmatched, i like it both ways but i think being unmatched lets you pic the best mic for each position.

the idea of this type of mic is to get the whole sound, that includes the room sound.

mabey time to invest in some accoustic treatment?

Ted Nightshade · 23rd May 2005, 03:42 PM

The most important thing is how the drums really sound in the room. And everywhere you put them, they will sound different.

Getting a healthy fundamental out of the bass drum is challenge #1. Probably this will happen oriented the long way, so the bass drum head faces the long dimension of the room, maybe even the longest dimension between two opposite corners, or slightly off. The only way is to move the drum around and thump it. Where does it really blossom and sound glorious? Somewhere it will sound best, at some precise angle and placement. Even 2" or 10 degrees can ruin the effect. Placing the bass drum in the ideal spot is job one. If it slides out of place, find the right spot by ear again. Always by ear, forget marking the floor or whatever.

Then place the snare drum. This will have to be a compromise, so you can play it and the bass drum both with the bass drum in it's ideal position. The exact angle of the snare will have a big effect. Experiment with orienting it to different spots on the ceiling. Find something with some meat to it.

Exact cymbal placement matters a lot too. An inch here or there can totally change the sound. Find somewhere where things sound full and healthy.

Then, find the right spot to put a mono overhead. Stereo overheads are harder to do and tend not to sound as solid. The right overhead position should yield a killer snare sound while not getting an excess of cymbals- but a lot of that is up to the player. Then add a room mic, listening for the low end bloom of the kick drum, and also the snare or whatever toms. Find a place that works well when mixed in mono with your overhead position. When the two mics are in phase, and in the right places, there will be plenty of juicy meat on the kit.

Then add bass drum mic as needed, again listening for how it works with the overhead and room mic. And a snare mic. These two are just to add any needed definition to the kit. Be careful because unless the phase is really healthy, you will be only smearing the sound and decreasing the impact by adding these mics. So make sure they all sound good together!

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23rd May 2005, 02:40 AM	#2
the1Hub Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: where there are blue skies 315 days a year Posts: 450	check out this fletcher with great info using three mics on a drum kit. also read this and if you do a search on this forum for "wittman drum" it will bring up a lot of good threads __________________ hmm... http://www.myspace.com/aaronhubbard

23rd May 2005, 05:01 AM	#6
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,600	Personally I'd rather have a mono OH and a room mic. It sounds like you don't want a room mic. Why is that? Used lightly in a mix a room mic can add a lot of dimension without sounding "roomy." Or you can make it really loud during a intro or a breakdown and have some nice motion in the mix. If you really smash things with the 1176 is gonna bring up the room tone (even if it's the SD mic you are smashing). __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

23rd May 2005, 05:03 AM	#7
the1Hub Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: where there are blue skies 315 days a year Posts: 450	you should not cover the mic. ive tried it both ways with matched sets and unmatched, i like it both ways but i think being unmatched lets you pic the best mic for each position. the idea of this type of mic is to get the whole sound, that includes the room sound. mabey time to invest in some accoustic treatment? __________________ hmm... http://www.myspace.com/aaronhubbard

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23rd May 2005, 02:27 AM	#1
contramark Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Location: philadelphia, pa Posts: 260	Questions about Drum Mic Setup? Hi Im planning to turn my apartment room into a studio this summer to record my rock/indie style project and Ive now realized drum-loops are not going to do the job for me, so I need last minute type advice to get a decent sound. The room I will be recording in is a bedroom about 20 feet by 10 feet with an above average height ceiling (carpet/drywall). Im not looking to mic every drum, more importantly cant really afford it, but rather trying to get the job done with 3-4 mics, similar to a beatles style drum sound with most importantly a loud kick and snare. My kit is only a 4 piece with 2 cymbals. My microphone collection and budget isnt exactly impressive as im a college student, but I currently am running Cubase SX 2 on an RME Fireface with a Studio Projects C1 and a couple of SM-57s. I also have a presonus MP-20 that im thinking of selling now after I got the fireface and have been doing some A/B w the fireface onboard preamps and feel they should be able to get the job done. Desperately want to get my hands on a great-river preamp but just dont see it happening this summer. So im thinking the easiest solution would be to get another C1 and use the 4 mic technique (C1 to left of hi-hat, C1 to right of floor tom w both pointing towards snare equal distance, 57 snare, 57 kick). Would this solution be very roomy sounding? Id rather not buy the C1 then have to figure this out. Is it possible to tape like studio foam on one side of a large-diapram condensor mic to reduce room sound. I do have use of a UAD-1 card and hydratone eq, and im hoping my 1176 will help squash the drums alot. I really want the snare to be an in your face type of sound not like its coming from across the room. Any advice would help. Thanks alot. -Mark

23rd May 2005, 02:51 AM	#3
contramark Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Location: philadelphia, pa Posts: 260	thanks for the link. good stuff. for the two large condensors should they be a matched pair? Should i find another C1 or would any other mic work? I might be able to find enough money to get my hands on a Blue Baby Bottle Mic, would this benefit me?

23rd May 2005, 03:36 AM	#4
contramark Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Location: philadelphia, pa Posts: 260	-also is possible to place a cover/foam over one side of a large condensor microphone to get less of the room sound? in a rectangluar room, 20feet by 10 feet what the ideal place to setup drums? sorry lots of questions, hopeing i can get some good advice. thanks.

23rd May 2005, 03:42 PM	#8
Ted Nightshade Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: state of jefferson Posts: 1,328	The most important thing is how the drums really sound in the room. And everywhere you put them, they will sound different. Getting a healthy fundamental out of the bass drum is challenge #1. Probably this will happen oriented the long way, so the bass drum head faces the long dimension of the room, maybe even the longest dimension between two opposite corners, or slightly off. The only way is to move the drum around and thump it. Where does it really blossom and sound glorious? Somewhere it will sound best, at some precise angle and placement. Even 2" or 10 degrees can ruin the effect. Placing the bass drum in the ideal spot is job one. If it slides out of place, find the right spot by ear again. Always by ear, forget marking the floor or whatever. Then place the snare drum. This will have to be a compromise, so you can play it and the bass drum both with the bass drum in it's ideal position. The exact angle of the snare will have a big effect. Experiment with orienting it to different spots on the ceiling. Find something with some meat to it. Exact cymbal placement matters a lot too. An inch here or there can totally change the sound. Find somewhere where things sound full and healthy. Then, find the right spot to put a mono overhead. Stereo overheads are harder to do and tend not to sound as solid. The right overhead position should yield a killer snare sound while not getting an excess of cymbals- but a lot of that is up to the player. Then add a room mic, listening for the low end bloom of the kick drum, and also the snare or whatever toms. Find a place that works well when mixed in mono with your overhead position. When the two mics are in phase, and in the right places, there will be plenty of juicy meat on the kit. Then add bass drum mic as needed, again listening for how it works with the overhead and room mic. And a snare mic. These two are just to add any needed definition to the kit. Be careful because unless the phase is really healthy, you will be only smearing the sound and decreasing the impact by adding these mics. So make sure they all sound good together!