The "Sound" of '60's Motown recordings- Specifically the EQ

[Sacalait]

Whenever I listen to some of the Supremes (the early stuff like "Baby Love"), I'm always captivated with how those recordings sound like they were cut today. For me it's the quality of the high-end that sooo freakin' sweet and more pleasing than most stuff I've heard since. It's like as perfect an eq as is possible. I know there are many variables but anyone have any insight to the Equalizers used? I believe I read somewhere once that Pultecs and Fairchilds were used. The writer dissed the Fairchild. I didn't save the article and have yet to 'refind' it.

I believe Bob Ohlsson is a part of this forum... and I'm sure he'd know.

[Dean Roddey]

It sometimes seem to me that what people consider 'sweet' high end, is actually very rolled off high end, whereas modern digital systems capture lots of high end, and are actually more accurate, but people think it sounds harsh because of that.

Those 60's Motown tunes would have been tracked through tube based mics, into tube based pre's, in a tube based console with tube based compressors, inot a tube based tape machine. That has to account for a lot of the sound, which it would seem to me would be quite rolled off in the highs compared to a modern digital recording, and with a fair amount of harmonic content from all the tubes.

[cdog]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

It sometimes seem to me that what people consider 'sweet' high end, is actually very rolled off high end, whereas modern digital systems capture lots of high end, and are actually more accurate, but people think it sounds harsh because of that.

Those 60's Motown tunes would have been tracked through tube based mics, into tube based pre's, in a tube based console with tube based compressors, inot a tube based tape machine. That has to account for a lot of the sound, which it would seem to me would be quite rolled off in the highs compared to a modern digital recording, and with a fair amount of harmonic content from all the tubes.

Agree 100%

A lot of what you are hearing isnt so much boosted high end via EQ but rather a very harmoncally rich high end that sounds much thicker than the highs off a DAW.

Also, a distinct lack of low end (they wanted to cut the records HOT!) makes for a more open sounding top. I would guess the mix had more bottom to it than the final master, which was optimized for vinyl.

[imdrecordings]

A lot of what you are hearing with the MoTown stuff is the music, songs/arrangement, performance and the yearning to write and perform the best song there ever was and will be. All caught on a recording apparatus, Over and Over again with little or no budget.
Seems simple right?

[Mortal Engines]

I also understand that MoTown used a console that was made specifically for them by their staff....

[Benmrx]

Could be 100% wrong. But I thought they used Quad Eight Consoles. I'm at least pretty sure they weren't using tube based consoles or preamps though by that piont........again, could be wrong.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by cdog

Agree 100%

A lot of what you are hearing isnt so much boosted high end via EQ but rather a very harmoncally rich high end that sounds much thicker than the highs off a DAW. .

They were also (probably) boosting alot of top end on certain tracks to get over the noise floor of the tape machine.

[Mortal Engines]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Could be 100% wrong. But I thought they used Quad Eight Consoles. I'm at least pretty sure they weren't using tube based consoles or preamps though by that piont........again, could be wrong.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did that by the late 60s, I was talking more about 63 to 67. It was just something I had read in Tape Op a couple of years back in an interview with one of their engineers from that period.

[laperlestudio]

motown EQ

I start this thread about motown eq, Bob Ohlsson and silevrtone had a very interesting conversion, I think that you can find all the info this thread

[Mihaly]

They certainly boosted top end for singles - If I recall correctly so that it would come through clearly on AM radio (in cars?). The top end was almost fierce on some singles that I have.

I remember putting some foam over the tweeters on one of the Four Tops records (Probably Bernadette / I had/have a pretty good HiFi), because the top was so fierce and the bassline really came out.

But the frequency balance was definitely skewed to the top end. Of course it would still not sound like a modern recording due to the high frequency roll-off of the recording chain.

[bergj00]

MOTOWN RECORDING TECHNIQUES INDEX
Heres a cool article about Motown mixing

[dbbubba]

The didn't use QuadEights!
Maybe when Motown moved to LA around 1970 they did, but not at Hitsville in Detroit.

The Hitsville (Detroit) console was based on UA 610 tube electronics.
It wasn't until the late '60s ('68/'69) that you started to see many solid state consoles.

I also don't recall mention of the Fairchild 670, but I could be wrong.

Also, the EQ on consoles in that time period was VERY limited.
2.5K, 5K or 10K were your only choices on top end and those had boost or cut in increments of 3db.
It was all click stops.
The Pultecs were necessary to get more freqs. within the midrange areas.
Remember that Pultecs were both MEQ and PEQ with the MEQ designed to deal with the MID freqs. hence the M in MEQ. MEQ stands for MID EQ.
The PEQ freqs. are click stops and are only slightly more variable than the EQs on the UA consoles.

[sleestack]

Did they ever release the tape versions of these songs before they hit vinyl?

[Steffmo]

I spent an fascinating evening about 10 years ago with Tony Bongiovi at Sonalysts in New London CT. They were showing the Power Station East studio, which was a licensed replica of the Power Station. The room itself is almost identical, The gear is similar.

At any rate, I was with Paul :eka, an old bud of tony's from early PS days and he was in a talkative mood.

He told a lengthy story about writing the Motown folks and, based on listening to the records, descibed what he thught their recording environment looked like, down to the wall treatments. He claimes it was so dead on that they invited him out to see the studio, and ultimately hired him.

How much of that is embellished...who knows. Maybe Ohlsson has a clue.

But he also said that a lot of the Power Station idea came from the Hitsville room. Tony had it down ro a science, including how many coats of varnish went on the wood....less varnish the higher up the wall, etc.

As to the gear, i'm sure the recording had a soft top end necause that was what was around for gear. That would also account for what one poster called a "fierce" high end....because it was really a fierce upper mid. You can't boost frequencies that aren't there or are present in such small amounts that the noise would be unbearable.

Point is, these guys were making records with songs, players, singers, and arrangement first. The gear was what there was, and they got 100 percent of what there was to get. If we all started with that premise there would be a LOT more great records around.

[gregl]

If you listen to the early Motown stuff on a car stereo or something with equiavalent fidelity it sounds very cool.

But I've noticed on numerous high end listening and/or monitoring systems a lot of it sounds pretty harsh and congested in the highs (with rolled off low end as mentioned and I wouldn't doubt that most of this is a result of the mastering process, which required many compromises for vinyl).

Having said that you cannot deny the coolness of the overall sound and vibe.
Sometimes "sonic perfection" and "sonic satisfaction" are not the same thing.

[squeeks555]

weren't Langevin EQ's and Tape Machine Pres common on the older Motown Stuff?