Long Term Storage of Audio?

[modulation]

well the vault is pretty large already it consists of 60 hard drives spanning the last 6 to 8 years each drive is probably around 200-300gig in size and most are pretty full, there are duplicates of all the important stuff, this harddrive collection is growing on a daily basis it seems like too. there are also 700 analog tapes including 137 2 inch analog multi track tapes, 560 1/4 inch stereo analog tapes, 2 dozen 1/2 inch analog stereo tapes, about a dozen 1inch digital multi track tapes, and about a dozen other random tapes like 1/4 inch tapes with centertimecode tracks, 1/4 inch digital stereo tapes etc etc. about 200 dats, maybe 50 syquest discs, several hundred zip disks mostly containing samples, so backing all this up onto harddrives and then rebacking up it up again onto new harddrives every couple years seems a little bit ridiculous, So the question still remains once all these analog tapes are transferred into the computer what is the best place to keep them safe for a long period of time?
a combination of hard drives and dvds and yes i am considering this archival sas tape thing, its seems expensive but this tape collection is worth alot of money to begin with so maybe in perspective its not that expensive.

[modulation]

Originally Posted by tINY

How old is this article? 20bit and DAT?!!

lol yeah i reread that article it does seem like its at least 13 years old perhaps, i cant help but feel that statement is still relevant today tho

[crufty]

i would look at your growth. i think a spreadsheet would tell you what the costs were, that would also help. for example, tape has a cost, an then you have the cost of checking the tape etc. Then you have hard drives, the number of hard drives you need to copy (say every 3-5 years etc). that might help you figure out which way to lean.

the tape drive solutions are really good if you are going to double in size each year. for example, if you were a bank and you need to keep records at the close of each month, there's no way you could keep your data on disk.

if your growth is slower, you can get a 1TB drive for say $200. Figure on replacing it every 3-5 years. How many drives do you need now, vs in 5 years?

To be extra secure, you could setup the drives in a raid array, but then now that costs money too. You could outsource it all to an iron mountain type outfit, but again that could cost even more. Outsourcing may not be a bad idea if you have enough valuable things to send. not like family picture type value, but federal pound me in the ass prison if you cant find it value or something that could be sold as a real asset. Then you get peace of mind and simplicity in exchange for letting someone else worry about how they are going to keep your data intact.

Definitely want to move the zip / syquest disks to a hard drive though asap, given that a 1tb hard drive can be had for like $200. I've had zips fail after only a couple of years. a few days of pain and suffering and then its done with.

your scale is interesting. a little too small for the big corp environments, but definitely big enough where its worth putting in the leg work to make the right choice. you might try talking to some offsite backup places to see what they suggest, since presumably they do it night and day, at least they could help you determine what the appropriate format would be. good luck!

[modulation]

yes i think i might consult some professionals on this and see about the different options and possiblities ,because not only is cost a factor but so is time, we cant really just take a year off to make backups, we have to continue to make records in order to keep the business going, so time is a big factor as well.

[Hide]

I do with RAID-1 HDD configuration storage.
It's not only related the music, I store any important data such as photos.

I'm thinking to upgrade to RAID-6 storage soon.
It's more reliable storage system.

Of course, just single HDD storage is really scary.
I never trust like it.

[modulation]

yes a raid is something i have been thinking about for the last year as well, to already have multiple backups of drives every step of the way.

[crufty]

raid is definitely a great way to store temporary data. however raid is not backup because it is not offsite. offsite backups should be kept 7 miles or more from the location from your primary data source. you know, in case a nuke goes off you might be atomized but your backups are safe

make sure you burn those photos to dvdr! Annual photo backups into the safety deposit box; its cheap an easy, esp for pictures--its easy to imagine terabytes of audio, but hard to picture more then 10dvds worth of pics (though possible).

@modulation, seeking help from the pros is really the best bet. local shops, emc, sony, ibm they'll all have an opinion. good luck!

[Hide]

Originally Posted by crufty

raid is definitely a great way to store temporary data. however raid is not backup because it is not offsite. offsite backups should be kept 7 miles or more from the location from your primary data source. you know, in case a nuke goes off you might be atomized but your backups are safe

Yes, I think so too.
And my storage is everyday working as external drive too.
So.... that's why I can use this way.
If HDD is having problem, I can replace it immediately and the data is still safely stored.

Originally Posted by crufty

make sure you burn those photos to dvdr! Annual photo backups into the safety deposit box; its cheap an easy, esp for pictures--its easy to imagine terabytes of audio, but hard to picture more then 10dvds worth of pics (though possible).

Actually I love to take photos and I already have over 100GB data for that.
So, DVD.... is not suitable for me. Haha...
Maybe I can think about Bluray. But it's too new technology, so I just wait for buying a bit.

Originally Posted by crufty

@modulation, seeking help from the pros is really the best bet. local shops, emc, sony, ibm they'll all have an opinion. good luck!

Actually I'm IT guy and managing storage servers everyday. Haha.

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by modulation

well the vault is pretty large already it consists of 60 hard drives spanning the last 6 to 8 years each drive is probably around 200-300gig in size and most are pretty full, there are duplicates of all the important stuff, this harddrive collection is growing on a daily basis it seems like too. there are also 700 analog tapes including 137 2 inch analog multi track tapes, 560 1/4 inch stereo analog tapes, 2 dozen 1/2 inch analog stereo tapes, about a dozen 1inch digital multi track tapes, and about a dozen other random tapes like 1/4 inch tapes with centertimecode tracks, 1/4 inch digital stereo tapes etc etc. about 200 dats, maybe 50 syquest discs, several hundred zip disks mostly containing samples, so backing all this up onto harddrives and then rebacking up it up again onto new harddrives every couple years seems a little bit ridiculous, So the question still remains once all these analog tapes are transferred into the computer what is the best place to keep them safe for a long period of time?
a combination of hard drives and dvds and yes i am considering this archival sas tape thing, its seems expensive but this tape collection is worth alot of money to begin with so maybe in perspective its not that expensive.

Whoa, that's a fair wedge of data you got there. It would take several months at least to back that all up to DVDs.

There are specialist companies that can do all that for you, Xepa Digital based in Iron Mountain off the top of my head, presuming you are in the US?

The offsite tape backup idea is pretty much the epitome of data storage, they consistently check and transfer/migrate all the data for you but it is very, very expensive. Several thousand pounds a year for an archive that size. Which is why none of the major labels (AFAIK) are doing that, it's simply too much data. It's only banks and financial institutions that do it, here in the UK at least.

However you do it it's gonna cost you, in time, labour or just $$!!

HD wise you are only talking about 20 or so Terabytes which in real terms isn't all that much these days. You can buy boxes with enough disks in to cover that.
We have a raid5 5TB box just to work to and from as we transfer and work on drives. The raid5 means a disk can fail but the other disks contain enough information to be able to rebuild the failed disk when you replace it.
They are relatively expensive but aside from the negligible running costs it's a one off payment until you need to upgrade to a bigger box.

Downside is you need to leave it on all the time and have someone capable of maintaining it, but it's pretty simple.
Upside, you can archive stuff to it as you go and have instant access to everything.

[crufty]

Originally Posted by Hide

Actually I love to take photos and I already have over 100GB data for that.
So, DVD.... is not suitable for me. Haha...

wow...nice!

i guess the lesson is the value of the data determines how much you spend on it....

[basstracker7769]

Hard drives like most mechnical devices can freeze up with lack of use
I store mutiple Dvds of the same material as well as on harddrives and Flash drives
At some point fixed flash storage will be cheap enough where all things can be stored there
either way keep multples copies of your material and back up often storage gets cheaper each day and with many copies you limit the potential of having a data loss

[BDL]

Should I store hard drives with the sealed metal plate side down or the bottom of the drive down (the part that shows the inner workings of the drive)?

BDL

[BDL]

Should I store hard drives with the sealed metal plate side down or the bottom of the drive down (the part that shows the inner workings of the drive)?


BDL

[JoaT]

"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain".

The story of our digital age and all its creations.

Even 50 years seems to be too long a time for modern mankind to understand.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by JoaT

"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain".

The story of our digital age and all its creations.

Even 50 years seems to be too long a time for modern mankind to understand.

As I posted earlier, the phonograph record on Voyager should last one billion years.

on a slightly less impressive level, the Department of Energy is trying to design monuments with warning signs and symbols for their Radioactive Waste sites like Yucca mountain that would last at least 10,000 years. The goal is to not only have the sign physically last that long but also culturally last that long.

They are trying to come up with warnings able to be understood by people who may not have any awareness of English and may even be unaware that our civilization ever existed. They are trying to take into account the possibilities that 10,000 years from now these people may be super-advanced or they may have reverted to primitive barbarism like some bad Science Fiction movie.

Planning for 10,000 years seems admirable, but considering that the nuclear waste may stay toxic for as long as 100,000 years, it strikes me as the least we can do.

[modulation]

UPDATE for anyone that has followed my lil problem

I think i am deciding to go with something like this for doing all my backups now
AIT Backup // Tape Archiving
and
Mezzo Technologies

thinking of getting an ATI2 tape backup system and Mezzo, this should relive my worries as projects will now live on varous harddrives, ATI Tapes and various DVDS

also still looking into offsite storage as well

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by modulation

UPDATE for anyone that has followed my lil problem

I think i am deciding to go with something like this for doing all my backups now
AIT Backup // Tape Archiving
and
Mezzo Technologies

thinking of getting an ATI2 tape backup system and Mezzo, this should relive my worries as projects will now live on varous harddrives, ATI Tapes and various DVDS

also still looking into offsite storage as well

Cool, I hope that works out for you. AIT is pretty reliable.

I wouldn't consider it for a long term archive as it is a mechanical system, reliant on an expensive piece of hardware and it also involves tape. 3 big things to avoid if at all possible.

I'm not trying to put you off, I've never had a problem with an AIT but I haven't seen any over 5 years old.

Good luck!