Question about converters from a novice...

[popvulture]

I have an Apogee Ensemble for my small home studio. I'll add a disclaimer to this by saying that I'm not a professional; I record my own music and am into getting good sounds via good playing, good songs and some decent equipment, whether the songs are my own or my friends'.

I like what I get out of my Ensemble, and I have a LA610 that's proven itself to be a useful tool... at the end of the day the gear I'm interested in isn't based around building an outboard arsenal where I have a case by case selection of ideal pieces of gear for ideal applications; I can't afford that. I don't want a great compressor that's perfect for snare drums or an eq that sounds great on guitar, but more like a couple of pieces of gear that might add a little something to my signal path to sweeten it up.

So there's my background info, because anyone who responds to this will probably ask me what kind of stuff I'm doing, and understandably so.

My question is this... I see tons of praise for 2 channel converters like the 2192, Burl and A2D. What are these really used for? The question may or may not pertain to me individually, but I hear so much about these things that I'm very curious, especially due to the fact that most of this hype comes from people who mix ITB. Say if one of these is an AD/DA, then you have the fact that you've got 2 more channels of good input... that's fine. What about the DA? Do you then send a mix through one of these for final output? What do you output to? I'm thinking that most ITB mixers don't have tape machines lying around.

The bottom line is that I'm not experienced enough to understand what these are used for. Someone tell me, please. An average 3K price tag makes these things sort of mystical.

[ssaudio]

I like having a couple of channels of quality D/A for monitoring i.e. DAW>D/A>Monitor Controller. Obviously 'quality' is subjective, but if for nothing more than piece of mind, I prefer that situation.

A/D wise, I'm not too fussy and it would be a strange day where a converter got in the way of recording anything, but that's just me.

Sounds to me like you've got the correct approach

[allencollins]

Ensemble is a somewhat solid unit.

I have a 2192 and a radar system. Is there a big difference between an apogee Ensemble/rosetta and a 2192? Yeah there is a big difference. Is it the matter of professional vs amateur I wouldsay not necessarily.

You can make a somewhat pro recording with lesser converters but it does make a difference. I think the sonic quality of hedd or 2192 or radar is not only a better overall sound and timbre it actually helps you make better recording in all aspects. They are less harsh more pleasing to the ear and the GS cliche' "more musical"
It's like an RME a/d is to 2192 what cobain vocals are to Freddie Mercury vocals. One is harsh one is smooth.
One is pleasing/soothing to the ear one is abrasive. One is rigid one is musical. Don't get me wrong
I've heard ok recordings with say an rme but Ive never heard anything awesome like the hedd or radar can produce.

The mid to higher end units are very precise and accurate. They can help you dial in eq easier and it will help you mix better than lower end units. Lower end units may not be as accurate. One of the things I noticed when I got my first mid level converter is mixes I cut on low end converters had some problems. I seem to hear freqencies easier and more accurate with the better units.

But this is not to say you can't make a good recording with a lower end unit. It just will never be consistently great. There is a difference but is it worth 4x the price? Maybe not in all cases. But the radar and 2192
are so smooth they make you not miss analog as much. I have a 24tr in the corner and I love it but the 2192
sounds so big, clear and warm(for digtial) it is a viable substitute for analog. The lower end units are not.
Though nothing will beat analog ever

[popvulture]

AHA!

Thank you so much for the reply. Unfortunately, however, you've sparked another question of mine. It makes sense that someone could monitor their work through such a device, but why rely on that if it's not the real output? Or is it? Do you monitor through something like the 2192 without actually finishing through it, or do you actually use it for the end result? If so, how does the signal path work?

I was recently at a studio here in Austin where the mix was summed/monitored through a Shadow Hills Equinox. It sounded awesome. That said, where does the signal go once bounced? To CD? Back into the computer to an AIFF or WAV? The engineer at the studio said he used the equinox to "get some iron" into the signal, obviously via the transformers, but I still just need someone to explain the damn process.

Once again, think novice.

[ssaudio]

Originally Posted by popvulture

or do you actually use it for the end result? If so, how does the signal path work?

That depends on how I'm working.
ITB, I'll keep the final mix in there too, so it never leaves ITB, so it's just D/A
Hybrid i.e mixing via a desk, it depends on where the mix is going (tape, DAW, Masterlink etc..etc...), so I might have to monitor A/D>D/A (Desk Mix bus is converted in this instance) hence the need for a good set of A/D. But more often than not I'll just monitor straight analogue from the desks' mix bus - much obviously depends on the Control Section you have available to you. I usually have to work with what's available, so it's not always ideal, but the basics remain - keep it short and simple and always monitor the recording.
When mixing to different formats there's only so much A/B checking a wee brain can handle

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by popvulture

AHA!

Thank you so much for the reply. Unfortunately, however, you've sparked another question of mine. It makes sense that someone could monitor their work through such a device, but why rely on that if it's not the real output? Or is it? Do you monitor through something like the 2192 without actually finishing through it, or do you actually use it for the end result? If so, how does the signal path work?

I was recently at a studio here in Austin where the mix was summed/monitored through a Shadow Hills Equinox. It sounded awesome. That said, where does the signal go once bounced? To CD? Back into the computer to an AIFF or WAV? The engineer at the studio said he used the equinox to "get some iron" into the signal, obviously via the transformers, but I still just need someone to explain the damn process.

Once again, think novice.

First off I am a novice. But I have OCD so I am helpless when it comes to spending money on stuff I don't really need. ;>)

real output? Monitoring through a 2192 is real output. I mix to 2track analog
so In my case it is real output. But You have to monitor on something it may
as well be the best you have.

No doubt it would be optimal to monitor on a weiss unit but I'm not dropping 10k