API 2500 ANYONE?

[borism]

HI
ANYONE WITH A REVIEW OF API'S 2500 BUS COMPRESSOR?, MAYBE COMPARED TO SSL, DRAWMER ETC? I VE SEEN POST MENTION THE UNIT BUT NO CLEAR REFERENCE OR REVIEW TO ITS SOUND.
THANK YOU

[brownmouse]

do a quick search on this board and you should find some discussion on it. they are all three very different units.
joshua

[lucey]

Here's one draft of a review I did for TapeOp a couple of years ago that was never published. It's maybe helpful?



API 2500 Stereo Compressor

The 2500 is a stereo compressor continuing in the tradition of the 525 and 225L mono units with many useful features and some new twists. In use, the first choice is 'new' or 'old' mode, giving two distinct characters to the compression and tone. Then there are the three knees (Soft, Medium and Hard) as well as the three degrees of Thrust (a low punch circuit from API/ATI's Paragon boards). Ratios are 1.5:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 6:1. 10:1 and Inf:1.

The classic API sound is written all over the 'old' mode and you can really hear the squish. This can be musical and cool or too much color and in the way of tones you already like. The 'new' mode is tonally cleaner with a grabby feed-forward VCA sound akin to but different from the dbx or the Alan Smart/SSL lineage. Attack times and Threshold must be drawn back to do any reasonable comparison of the 'new' to the 'old' modes, and to simply to keep things from getting choked as the 'new' really grabs the transients.

Using the New mode lows and highs retain more of their tone, yet it's more touchy and demands a conservative approach to Attack, Knee and Thrust for moderate compressions. New mode properly set, achieves a clean tightening of a 2 mix with a uniquely "New API" sound and character. If you want that SSL/Smart envelope this is no replica, rather a new alternative. In either 'new' or 'old' the proprietary Thrust adds lows (sidechains them out of the compressor) in the 'med' or 'loud' mode, and this can be musical or too much. (Thrust is disengaged in the 'norm' position.)

Three Knee settings, 'soft', 'med', 'hard' are all useable in the 'old' mode, yet in the 'new' mode the 'soft' and 'med' knees are more likely useful for program material. 'Loud' Thrust is huge on the bottom and would need some compensation in mixing, while the 'med' Thrust in both 'old' and 'new' was my fave, giving some sense of the euphonic lows and low-mid smack of a Drawmer 1969. You have to be subtle with the controls of the 2500 and given that API uses those hip yet tiny metal knobs, this requires some touch. The fixed attack settings typical to many 2 mix units work well for the 'old' mode, yet for the 'new' the attack is so quick that a few more Attack times would be useful, and this is my only complaint to the 2500's design. The Ratios, Thrust and Knees for 'old' can be set almost anywhere and work musically yet for 'new' I had to keep it under 4:1 and go easy on both Knee and Thrush. Confused? Well this box is deeply featured and takes some time.

The Variable Link is another unique feature. You have a 100% link and an unlinked setting, plus linked settings from 50% link up to 100%. The manual suggests these for percussive program where you don't want one side to take both sides down. I can see that, yet I also liked the Link set to 70% with the high pass filter in, for what it did to rock bass in a typical mix. This variable link also has 'hi pass', 'lo pass' and 'mid pass' filters. Again, many features to experiment with. Finally there's a hard bypass switch plus the ability to 'Compressor Bypass'.

Bottom line, the API 2500 is a solid 1U unit with the classic API sound in one mode and a new API sound in the other, with plenty of Knee, Thrust and Link combinations. A deep box worth a listen.

[borism]

Thank you... any final "personal" take on the unit? did you like it? do you think it is flexible enough for different scenarios and aplications?
Thank you again for your comment...

[lucey]

Originally Posted by borism

Thank you... any final "personal" take on the unit? did you like it? do you think it is flexible enough for different scenarios and aplications?
Thank you again for your comment...

try it out for yourself

for me ... on the 2 mix, no. for drum buss, maybe. for mastering, definitely not.

i prefer other things on the drum buss in the rare instances I mix ... like the new Vintech 609CA, Neve 33609, Distressors, SSL, Smart C1, Drawmer, STC-8.

I also like a box that doesn't try to do too many things ... but many people like the 2500 who own them.



Bottom line, what i think is not imporant ... What do you need?

[rlnyc]

Originally Posted by borism

HI
ANYONE WITH A REVIEW OF API'S 2500 BUS COMPRESSOR?, MAYBE COMPARED TO SSL, DRAWMER ETC? I VE SEEN POST MENTION THE UNIT BUT NO CLEAR REFERENCE OR REVIEW TO ITS SOUND.
THANK YOU

sharp. powerful. edgy. and if you want, sprungy, glurpy and froingy biong and slzzurp. (that's with new old and big)

that's my review.

get one and listen.... i do NOT use it as buss compressor (too edgy and forward). i DO use it for drum submix (for it's ability to crunch and forward up a submix). i may sell it off -- only $45,000. (get it while it is hot)

best,
rlnyc

[jho]

2500 is an excellent addtion to any rack of stereo compressors. I don't know if I'd compare it to an SSL, Drawmer or anything else. It's got it's own vibe. I've used it on drum buss, guitar buss, mix buss, and individual channels. Very versitle and can get a lot of different sounds out of it.

However I don't care for the 10:1 2 buss trick that Mr. Wolf has posted (no offense being he's the designer). Was too squishy and hard to control balance with any slight change in anything. But I do agree you kind of have to ignore the meters on this one so as not to influence your decision. So many variables you have to know and trust your ears.

Two thumbs up!

[Fletcher]

I think it's a bad assed mother fukker for a very wide variety of applications... but YMMV.

[borism]

Thanks, thats what i wanted to hear, some subgective opinion (good or bad) from educated users to ballance the tech specs, the list of features i can get from api,s web site, I'll try it....thanks

[tonyespinoza]

we've decided to standardize on it and have one in each SSL 9K mix room.

-tE

SAN FRANCISCO SOUNDWORKS
www.sfsoundworks.com

[u b k]

lucey, that was an excellent review, can't imagine why it wasn't published. your impressions mirror mine completely, if i weren't taking my meds i'd ask you to stay out of my head.

i chose the 2500 over the smart c2 and cranesong stc8 for precisely the reasons you didn't: pure attitude and inescapable vibe and color. the c2 screws with the top in a way that baffles me (as in: people *like* this?). the stc8 is gorgeous but not enough of a thing for me.

like you, 10:1 is too choked for me, 4:1 feels like home. i keep coming back to old style, soft knee, med punch, 0-2db squeeze. bass is big but tight, transients splat with authority while retaining punch, and there's just enough sweet amber grunge to leave no doubt that analog was here.


gregoire
del ubik

[lucey]

Originally Posted by u b i k

like you, 10:1 is too choked for me, 4:1 feels like home. i keep coming back to old style, soft knee, med punch, 0-2db squeeze. bass is big but tight, transients splat with authority while retaining punch, and there's just enough sweet amber grunge to leave no doubt that analog was here.

yea, that's a cool sound...

did you try the Drawmer 1968? Different, but similar to Med Punch

[kenkelly81]

Anymore kernels of wisdom on this topic?

I'm about to pull the trigger on 1 of these but I'm a little torn.

I might also consider the Vintech 609.

Or----- lol the RNLA. Just kidding or maybe I'm not!

I gotta get some sleep I think I'm over thinking this one.

HELP!!!!!!!

I have to order this thing later today so I can have it buy the weekend.

Brian do you still have that Vintech for sale?

Thanks guys,

KC

P.S. I would be using it primarily for Organic Rock. Is Organic Rock even a term?
Some pop, R&B and whatever. For 2-bus primarily and other uses will just be a bonus.

Man I think I type pretty good considering I'm asleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eep

[lucey]

I do ... and I'm motivated so the price is right. PM or call for details

It's really about what you need.

The API is not dual mono, and it has it's strong sound. That API sound. And a newer VCA sound which I dont care for compared to actual SSL/C1/C2 sounds or other options.

The best thing in that pseudo-SSL range IMO is the P38 ... and it's cheaper. It's a truly clean path, and does the SSL thing with more envelope options than any SSL and a much cleaner path than then NEW mode on the 2500.

The Vintech is cool in that it's dual mono or stereo, and it has the limiter option per channel for a darker sound. Each channel can be comp only, limiter only or both. It's going to open up the mid/top and add some transformer low end in the comp mode, not the low mid beef of a 2500. (yet with the 609 you dont lose the top end either, actually you'll get some more openness) The limiter mode is grabby and darker, but still cleaner then that 2500 which is pure attitude.

I like the 2500 for drum buss best.

A Vintech now and a p38 when you can would be killer. But these two assume you dont want darkness, or a low-mid pusher. If you want low mids and darker tops the 2500 or the 1968 are more the direction, and both have a punch/fat thing.

[lclyman]

Ken,
I'll chime in here (hear....!) as I went through the same process..trying to decide which 2 bus compressor to use with my summing box (Phoenix N16)...

After listening to, and in a couple of cases mixing through a few possibilities...(Drawmer 68, Milennia Twincom TCL-2, Manley Vari-mu, SSL 384, Smart C2)...and extensively researching a few others (API 2500, Pendulum ES-8, Cranesong STC, Vintech 609) I decided they're all really great but I need to decide on 1 and start getting to know it like the back of my hand...!

So the next logical consideration was which one is the best bang for the buck, most versatile/useful later on if I decide to add to my gear, and has some existing track record of users to get some sense of history, quality, reliability, etc...

Based on this I chose the Drawmer 68...great color and glue on the 2 bus...has dual mono capability so it will be useful for a number of things besides stereo bus applications...it's had an immediately positive impact on my mixes...and as a bonus, the least expensive of all of them....

Any of the 2 bus possibilities discussed on these forums will be great tools and I suspect you'll be very happy with any one of them...!

Hope this helps...

Larry

[jho]

I guess from the list directly above I'd take the STC-8. If you can find one at a good cost them even better.

It was one of my first really nice comps and I still think that it's incredible. And it's just great on the 2 buss IMO.

The API - I don't love on the 2-buss. It can be cool, but since I have a 1968, C2, Fatso, distressors, STC-8 etc to choose from typically one of those gets called up.

The API is definetly (or can be) the most colorful guy on the block. Very tweekable, very much it's own sounds. Very good for (as lucey mentioned) drum buss (but isn't the C2 just so easy there?). I use the 2500 on electric guitars probably 7 out of 10 times lately. For 2-buss try that 10:1 fast attack slow release thing. It gets interesting if you want a huge mushy feel (and who doesn't? )

[Fletcher]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=40354 8th post into the thread... [to lazy to type the response again]

[kenkelly81]

Hey Guys,

Great suggestions.

I know this whole subject has been beat to death as of late and quite a bit in the past also so I a appreciate your time and patience in answering my questions.

So this is the last one I swear.

Maybe if I list my gear all of you with much more experience with 2-bus comps can help me figure out what might work best with my rig. PLEASE!!!!

I know I have to decide for myself by listing. So I will get the 2 that seem like they might work the best and demo them for week or so.

Anyhow here is a list:

PT HD3 - with Crane song Phonix, URS Everything Bundle, UA Comps, Waves IR-1....
2 Apogee 800 96k
API 8200
API 7800
Assorted Neve, API, Summit pres and 1 Summit TLA-50. My only outboard Comp.

What would compliment this humble setup??????

As you can see I am severally limited in the out board comp department.

Thanks for all the great help,

KC

[lucey]

Originally Posted by kenkelly81

Anyhow here is a list:

PT HD3 - with Crane song Phonix, URS Everything Bundle, UA Comps, Waves IR-1....
2 Apogee 800 96k
API 8200
API 7800
Assorted Neve, API, Summit pres and 1 Summit TLA-50. My only outboard Comp.

What would compliment this humble setup??????

As you can see I am severally limited in the out board comp department.

When you listen to your 2 buss what do you say to yourself about it?

[kenkelly81]

Well it seems to have a lot of color it just doesn't sound like a record.

I know great mastering will take it that extra mile.
But for times when I don't have time for mastering I would just like something that will glue it all together better then what I'm getting now with a 2-bus.

Does that make sense?

I got the 8200 7800 combo to try out board summing and I really liked the difference it gave the mix. Now I just want to take it to the next step.

[lucey]

i know this is hard, maybe impossible to answer, but ...

what does the 2 mix need?

Originally Posted by kenkelly81

Well it seems to have a lot of color it just doesn't sound like a record.

that could be mixing!




do you have anything on the 2 buss now?

you have API summing and good pres, converters

you have no mixing comps except plugs?



so what sound from a comp do you hear in your head that you dont hear in the mixes?

[kenkelly81]

I guess I'll just buy 1 or 2 and make up my own mind.

Thanks for all the help guys,

KC