? 4 rock engineers working in the 90s

[DGrimmett]

hello all,
I have a client coming in next week to record a little 7 song ordeal.
It sounds very 90s rock influenced. (think smashing pumpkins) along
with some stoner rock (thing queens of the stone age).

What was tracking like in the 90s? any different from now? tips/ techniques
that were big in the 90s?

Im going to be laying drums down on this one with a 5 piece DW maple kit.
The client accually has space for us to track in. I wanted a big dry sound, and
his basement is almost has like a warehouse kind of feel. probably 25 by 30 foot room
12 foot cielings, concrete floor, finished walls etc.

Any approaches I should know about? for drums, guitars, vox, etc?

MIcs i use just to name a few, 57s, beta 52, i5, vintage akg (57 type), akg LDC, pair of maudio pulsar 2, nady ribbon, d6, blue 8 ball, etc. Also thinking about picking up a cascade x-15 (stereo ribbon) this week.

I dont have any preamps except for the ones on my FF800 along with the pres/eq on my vintage carvin console (pretty decent).

Any advice welcome. thanks!!

[Nishmaster]

Just a few things come to mind.

Use plenty of room in everything, especially the drums. Use less gain in the guitars than you would think (gain, not volume). If you're going for a Pumpkins thing, the wall of sound comes more from a lot of doubling and layering of elements, and not really from that extra tight only double or quadruple tracked extra high gain sound of today.

You might tune the snare lower than you would usually. Toms also. Leave a little boom in the kick, don't quite scoop it to death. Once again, though, a well tracked set of room mics I think is key, mixed hotter than you might today.

[gainreduction]

Console + tape of some kind in many cases.

Sonics aside, that affects the performance quite a lot, knowing the easiest way to fix a bad take is to play it properly to begin with.

[DGrimmett]

Thanks guys. To the first poster. Wall of sound is definetly good advice, I accually had my client over when I read your post and he was like "yea dude pumpkins recording alot and alot of guitars", and as far as the tuning on the drums, lower than normal, thats my preference anyway so yea! thanks for backing that up!

To the second poster. Good advice as well. I have 2 reel to reels, I do want to incorporate them somehow, theres not enough channels to go straight to it but I may do some dumping. And as you stated the real point of it being to prevent shortcuts...im definetly game on that regaurdless. performance not perfection!


thanks again!

[biggator6]

For 90's-style recording... get rid of some of the current trends.

Don't snap everything to a grid, don't sample-replace to death, don't autotune to death..

Not that this wasn't done 10-12 years ago, but it was not as common and overdone as today.

For guitars, +1 on the lower gain.. also layer in some real nasty fuzz-box tones (big muff, fender blender, ampeg scrambler).

For the 'stoner rock' sound... 400hz.
"-)

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by biggator6

For the 'stoner rock' sound... 400hz.
"-)

Wouldn't that be 420hz?

[DGrimmett]

thanks again! I dont reaally use autotune or snapping to a grid, so that won't be a problem. Can someone explain to me the importance of 400hz? Are the saying the whole mix should have a little boost there?

Thanks!

[Nishmaster]

The 400-500hz area is where I find lots of wool and some mush. I generally beat this area pretty savagely to get it to cooperate in a modern mix, especially in the guitars. The 90s grunge and alternative sound definitely had a bit more of this area apparent. Don't cut in that region as much as you might normally.

[DGrimmett]

excellent thanks, I'll experiment with that for sure!

How about vocals? anything special they did back then or is it pretty close
to what were doing today?

[DJBlueDrink]

I would take a little note of this article. HUM Guitar Sounds - HOW? . Its Keith Cleversley telling how he got the guitar sound on Hum's 1995 album "So You'd Prefer an Astronaut". Good example of a thick ambient 90's guitars. He also has one on how he got the drum sound for Flaming Lips' "Transmissions from the Satellite Heart" here The Flaming Lips Drum Sounds - HOW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJaEBPqWceA. This is a video of Smashing Pumpkins in the studio trying to set up. Before 4:30 is just noise but theres a few interesting things mentioned after that.

Aside from that, you can watch the classic albums nevermind to hear Butch Vig talk about what he did for Nirvana seeing as he recorded Siamese Dream and Gish. Check out the Electrical Audio forums for information on Steve Albini's techniques (Just make sure to use the search function thoroughly before asking about how something was done. This goes tenfold for In Utero.)

Also, make sure the gear they are playing through is capable of delivering the sound you're looking for as that matters as much if not more than what you're using to record it. Easy on the fuzz. Live whatever, but on record less is usually more (Especially if you're layering guitars) unless you're trying to recreate Husker Du's Zen Arcade. Ambience is your friend except probably a tad drier on the bass(in relation to the other instruments, not just in general terms). Some folks (albini) liked vocals pretty low in the mix which can be cool but I would'nt go overboard with that as it can get crappy pretty fast.

I hope I was able to help. Good luck and please post when you are done as I miss that sound very much.

[centurymantra]

Originally Posted by DJBlueDrink

I would take a little note of this article. HUM Guitar Sounds - HOW? . Its Keith Cleversley telling how he got the guitar sound on Hum's 1995 album "So You'd Prefer an Astronaut". Good example of a thick ambient 90's guitars. He also has one on how he got the drum sound for Flaming Lips' "Transmissions from the Satellite Heart" here The Flaming Lips Drum Sounds - HOW?

Those are great articles! I especially appreciate that Flaming Lips article. "Transmissions..." is really a landmark record IMHO - and a benchmark in sonics. One of my favs from a band I've followed since they released their first LP.

The attention to detail is pretty crazy (love the cardboard celing "risers") I also love how the drum sound revolved around nothing more than a happy accident. This merely reaffirms my strong belief that a big part of any artform is the ability to successfully recognize and embrace happy accidents.

[DGrimmett]

Most definetly! thanks for those articles

[jsaliba]

I like the sound of guitars with less gain and more volume and this was a trend in the 90's, however, Smashing Pumpkins is the polar opposite of this sound. Their guitar sound is characterized by being SUPER saturated (too much for me). Something to take note of it the client loves the Smashing Pumpkins guitar sound.

Jake

[Nishmaster]

As I noted above, this saturation is coming from layers, not gain.

Trust me on this one. A little birdy told me.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Wouldn't that be 420hz?

hahaha good one

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by scram_chops

excellent thanks, I'll experiment with that for sure!

How about vocals? anything special they did back then or is it pretty close
to what were doing today?

Is 1995 really considered "Back Then"?

I feel so so old..Jeez.

Nothing has changed for me recording wise and I think I have pretty much kept up with the times.
There is now allot more "post-production". Tuning, timing blah, blah..

Mixing has changed a fair bit as well, thanks to digital processors.

But the bones of recording can't really change that much.
Sound - mic - recorder.

[DGrimmett]

thanks again, yea I'll definetly take the layering into consideration when we get down into it. As far as that goes, im not used to layering, doubling tripling sometimes. Whats the best kind of starting point that would help lead my experimenting in a good direction. Layering alot of the same sound, layering different rigs...?a few british gain sounds mixed with some slightly fuzzy ones, etc?


oh and to the last guy, your not old, im just a kid hah. I wish I was tracking in 95 but I was only 7

[KingDiamond]

The newest issue of Sound on Sound magazine has a couple pages of info on Smashing Pumpkins and some songs had over 80 guitar tracks if I remember correctly.

[DGrimmett]

sweet I'll have to check out that issue

[djui5]

Yeah, lots and lots of layered guitars, big drums, and don't be afraid to use verb and delay. Just don't drown it like in the 80's. Also scoop the mids some. Modern music seems to be very mid range friendly, but not in the 90's. Smooth highs, nothing sharp.

[Dragon]

I would take some some blankets or carpet etc., in case your highs are getting out of control in the space, it sounds like it will be very live. Sometimes it can be good to have a little over the kit.

Sounds like a fun project.

Nathan Pellerin
Taos Recording Retreat: Sound Studio, Guesthouse in beautiful Taos, NM

[DGrimmett]

maybe hang a blanket above the whole kit?

[DGrimmett]

I got my hand on a different kit. A gretsch birch kit. It has a darker sound to it which I like alot. Also picked up a joemeek threeq that does wonders on a snare. Also picked up another ribbon so now I have a pair for either room mics or overheads

[Dave Reid]

I guess someone should mention Butch Vig.