Folcrom - summing and makeup gain

[Billster]

I know that external summing has been topic of enough threats by now. But as I plan to jump on the otb summing-bus, I´m wondering what configuration would serve me best.

So my question to you Folcrom-users is : what devices do you use for makeup gain ? And what´s your experience with that device ?

Thanks for your help.
Bill

[edIT]

API 512c:

Classic API 2520 opamp color. creamy mid range. not really god for eveything but if you are going for a vintage rock vibe, could potentially be bad ass.

Pendulum MDP-1A:

I bought this from Mercenary purely based on Fletcher's recommendation and this is a totally badass option for the folcrom. It can be really clean and clear at lower gains. Low end and sub bass are huge, transients are fast and hi mid range and hi's are sizzling. Hit the tubes hard for and even fatter sound.

[wallace]

Can somebody post an A/B of a mix done with internal summing and one done with the folcrom? Or an A/B comparing different preamps? The folcrom sounds inticing, but it seems like lots of hidden costs with cables and DA converters. How does it sound with just a few stems?

[Billster]

Thanks for your quick reply, edIT. The Pendulum sounds real interesting due to variability of sounds achievable.

I heard somebody say that the Chandler TG2 is a very good option as well. Maybe not as flexible though.

[brownmouse]

Originally Posted by Billster

So my question to you Folcrom-users is : what devices do you use for makeup gain ? And what´s your experience with that device ?

i use a great river mp-2nv or more recently a d.w. fearn vt-2 with the folcrom. i'm sure the pendulum mdp-1a is also great in that application as is the cranesong flamingo.
joshua

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by wallace

Can somebody post an A/B of a mix done with internal summing and one done with the folcrom? Or an A/B comparing different preamps? The folcrom sounds inticing, but it seems like lots of hidden costs with cables and DA converters. How does it sound with just a few stems?

I wouldn't call them hidden costs, really.

What are you using now for D/A and how many channels do you have.

I believe the difference is big enuff that even cheap D/A's will sound good.

I use Brent Averill Neve 1272, API 3124 or Chandler TG-2.

They all sound great. Different colors. I like the TG-2 alot because it just makes everything sound more like a record. The only way I can explain it.

[Billster]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I like the TG-2 alot because it just makes everything sound more like a record.

See, that´s exactly what I hope to achieve. Let the music come alive !

Maybe I´ll check out a couple of the units you guys mentioned here. Thanks so far.

[Jules]

We auditioned all our pre amps and prefer the API mic pres - seems to suit our brand of rock music.

[Billster]

Originally Posted by wallace

Can somebody post an A/B of a mix done with internal summing and one done with the folcrom?

I will as soon as I got my setup. I will let you know. May take some time though - not enough dough yet.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jules

We auditioned all our pre amps and prefer the API mic pres - seems to suit our brand of rock music.

Do you have the TG-2?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by wallace

Can somebody post an A/B of a mix done with internal summing and one done with the folcrom? Or an A/B comparing different preamps? The folcrom sounds inticing, but it seems like lots of hidden costs with cables and DA converters. How does it sound with just a few stems?

I think you really need to try it for yourself. It's one of those things where other people's files doesn't really help. You have to hear what's been missing from your productions.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Produceher

It's one of those things where other people's files doesn't really help. You have to hear what's been missing from your productions.

This is true, in a perfect situation it might be different than with certain deficiencies in the tracks themselves.

I've tried approximately 25 different preamps on the Folcrom, I definitely have some favorites. Probably shouldn't say here though.

[Billster]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I've tried approximately 25 different preamps on the Folcrom, I definitely have some favorites. Probably shouldn't say here though.

c´mon don´t be shy, give us a hint. I won´t tell anyone...

[EngineEars]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I've tried approximately 25 different preamps on the Folcrom, I definitely have some favorites. Probably shouldn't say here though.

Why not? Perhaps it's because you don't sell some of your favorites? Just a guess.

On another note the if the Pendulum tube mic pre rocks for this application then the Thermionic Culture Earlybird 2 seems like it would be great also. The added EQ all in one unit seems like it would be 2 bus friendly. I can't wait to try out that setup. Anyone else try it, Jules?

[edIT]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I think you really need to try it for yourself. It's one of those things where other people's files doesn't really help. You have to hear what's been missing from your productions.

Totally agreed. It's also one of those things where I don't think me printing comparisons is gonna knock your socks off. It's the sum of all the parts that really makes a big difference. It's my Pendulum MDP-1A going into my Cranesong STC-8 into my API 550b's going back into my Rosetta 800 that really make the mixes kick ass. My outboard Eventide H-8000 and Kurzweil KSP8 verbs also take it to another level too. As opposed to the old way of mixing in the box and slapping your fav EQ, compressor and finalizing plugins on your chain. Not to knock on plugins, because I like plugins and they have their place. But having some choice outboard pieces overall, can help. I will say this though....... The Pendulum is everything I descibed above. The subs and hi mid to hi end clarity is to die for. And the transient response is very fast. Even for a tube pre. Do not believe any of the hype including mine. I advise buying a Folcrom, and renting a bunch of pres and going from there. Although I think most rental places will not even have the majority of pres that will translate well on mixes. So maybe buy, but buy from a place that will let you return if you aren't pleased. Or try to get some loaners from your local dealer. I live in LA and I buy and return so much gear, that I've buddied up with multiple dealers both major and minor. And just about anyone at these places will lend me a piece of gear for only the small inconveniece of putting a hold on my creditcard incase I decided to light the box on fire.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by edIT

I advise buying a Folcrom, and renting a bunch of pres and going from there.

Screw that, rent the Folcrom too!

[alphajerk]

yeah.... last time someone posted files here most preferred ITB over the folcrum. and then sumo was up for A/B and again, ITB won again... then it was something other summing box and guess what?!? ITB won again.


im curious if someone took a mix through the folcrum into a preamp, than ran the 2buss through the preamp and compared those two. anything you put in there is going to impart some sort of color.

[edIT]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

yeah.... last time someone posted files here most preferred ITB over the folcrum. and then sumo was up for A/B and again, ITB won again... then it was something other summing box and guess what?!? ITB won again.

Well you know. different strokes for different folks. I can't say eveyone is going to get good mileage out of it. but it works for me, I'm a happy camper.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Produceher

Do you have the TG-2?

No but I want one!

We have...

2 x ch Neve 1073 mic pre / eq’s
4 x ch Helios mic pre / eq’s
4 x ch API mic pre
2 x ch Focusrite 215 pre / eq’s
2 x ch TLA EQ1 mic pre / eq’s valve
1 x ch TLA 5051 mic pre / eq / compressor valve
4 x ch NTI night Pro mic pre / eq’s
2 x ch Chiswick Reach Earlybird valve mic pre

[alphajerk]

Originally Posted by edIT

but it works for me, I'm a happy camper.

and thats ALL that matters.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jules

No but I want one!

We have...

2 x ch Neve 1073 mic pre / eq’s
4 x ch Helios mic pre / eq’s
4 x ch API mic pre
2 x ch Focusrite 215 pre / eq’s
2 x ch TLA EQ1 mic pre / eq’s valve
1 x ch TLA 5051 mic pre / eq / compressor valve
4 x ch NTI night Pro mic pre / eq’s
2 x ch Chiswick Reach Earlybird valve mic pre

It's gonna fit right in.

[Toad]

Make SURE you compare ITB vs OTB before investing a large amount of money!
The results will probably surprize you!

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by EngineEars

Why not? Perhaps it's because you don't sell some of your favorites?

No, you're wrong. I'm trying not to hurt any feelings of people who make the stuff because of my subjective opinion, or start any flame wars because that kind of shit is sensitive. Please try not to put words in my mouth, thanks.

[Tim Farrant]

I think something that deserves consideration with the Folcrum is that it is purely passive with only connectors, switches and resistors in the signal path. If you really want to keep the mix path "open", then also consider a clean transformerless discrete mic preamp for the task.

My reasoning is this; you can spend heaps of time and heaps of money for gear to enable you to record great sounding tracks with the "colour" you are looking for. So like any good mixing console, you want to preserve those sounds in the mix.

IMHO less colouration at this point of the chain is a good thing.

Has anybody tried the GML pre with the Folcrum?

Tim

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

I think something that deserves consideration with the Folcrum is that it is purely passive with only connectors, switches and resistors in the signal path.
Tim

Which is why im baffled that the thing fetches $700+! It is a great concept though... i'll give them that...

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

My reasoning is this; you can spend heaps of time and heaps of money for gear to enable you to record great sounding tracks with the "colour" you are looking for. So like any good mixing console, you want to preserve those sounds in the mix.

IMHO less colouration at this point of the chain is a good thing.

Tim

Your reasoning makes sense in "theory". Although the most sought after consoles in the world tend to be "colored".

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

My reasoning is this; you can spend heaps of time and heaps of money for gear to enable you to record great sounding tracks with the "colour" you are looking for. So like any good mixing console, you want to preserve those sounds in the mix.

IMHO less colouration at this point of the chain is a good thing.

Sometimes it is... sometimes it ain't. I've not heard too many people complain about having to mix on a Neve desk... which is full of iron, full of distortion, full of phase shift and ain't all that clean.

It's going to involve a sense of aesthetic. Have I tried a GML 8302 with it... yeah, and a John Hardy and a Great River and a D.W. Fearn [my usual favorite] and a Chandler TG-2 and a blee and a bloop and all I can say is that there are some times when it's really pretty damn cool to be able to play around with the final tone of the output mix buss... clean is a sound, but not the only sound in this application... though as always, YMMV.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

Which is why im baffled that the thing fetches $700+! It is a great concept though... i'll give them that...

A few points on this. Yes, it is widely known that the parts inside the Folcrom do not come close to $700.

But:

1. It would easily take me 3 days to build one. Find all the parts, assemble, solder etc.
I'm not a huge fan of making $150 -$200 a day and my unit would never be as solid as this unit or look half as good.

2. It's still the biggest sonic improvement I've heard in 7 years on a DAW and it's the cheapest piece in my rack.

3. It's still the cheapest summing box on the market. It's also the most versatile.

4. If it's so easy and cheap to build, where are all the $300 boxes coming out to knock it down to size?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Sometimes it is... sometimes it ain't. I've not heard too many people complain about having to mix on a Neve desk... which is full of iron, full of distortion, full of phase shift and ain't all that clean.

It's going to involve a sense of aesthetic. Have I tried a GML 8302 with it... yeah, and a John Hardy and a Great River and a D.W. Fearn [my usual favorite] and a Chandler TG-2 and a blee and a bloop and all I can say is that there are some times when it's really pretty damn cool to be able to play around with the final tone of the output mix buss... clean is a sound, but not the only sound in this application... though as always, YMMV.

By the way Fletcher, I know how much you love SSL.

If you were trying to create that sound with a Folcrom, which pre would you use?

(Don't say SSL)

[fross]

I like "clear" and "open", so I primarily use my folcrom with the Millenia HV-3D.
I'm finding that I get the best results when I mix ITB (panning, eq, effects) and THEN send the stems out and do some minor volume adjustments.