Making a living off recording...

[Zeppelin4Life]

Considering I practice drums or guitar like 6 hours a day thats all I do anymore and recording has become part of who I am. Im wondering how many actually went to a school for audio and got something out of it. Im a junior in HS now. My average is around 92 and my SAT is expected to be like 2000/2400. thanks !

[ixnys]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin4Life

Considering I practice drums or guitar like 6 hours a day thats all I do anymore and recording has become part of who I am. Im wondering how many actually went to a school for audio and got something out of it. Im a junior in HS now. My average is around 92 and my SAT is expected to be like 2000/2400. thanks !

I thought the highest score you could get on the SAT was a 1600.

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin4Life

Considering I practice drums or guitar like 6 hours a day thats all I do anymore and recording has become part of who I am. Im wondering how many actually went to a school for audio and got something out of it. Im a junior in HS now. My average is around 92 and my SAT is expected to be like 2000/2400. thanks !

You'll probably get some good advice. Here's some bad advice just to get the ball rollin. I quit school and went on tour when I was your age. A decade later and I've always made a living making music. I was touring and doing studio work. Now I'm producing and teaching, I only play out when the money is real tight.

I did a session tonight with an 18 year old alto sax player/rapper who got a full ride to Berkley. He's debating on wether he should go or just jump into his career right now. I think he should go. Some of my favorite musicians dropped out of Berkley.

[drockfresh]

My $0.02

Try to get a music scholarship to a college with a great music scene and great recording facilities. Then you have a four year cushion to hone your music and recording chops while playing in college bands and having fun. Check out the Suny Purchase studio composition program - I attended a few classes there briefly and there were some great musicians and they had a decent recording studio (If I remember correctly). Most importantly, they also have an excellent dance program so you are surrounded by ballerinas in between band practice breaks. thumbsup

[CorkyTart]

Start reading/learning on your own now and go to school to REFINE what you already know. You'll be way ahead of the game.

[djwayne]

By all means, if there's a college course in music production available to you, go for it. A few years ago, I took a couple of 12 week courses, and learned a tremendous amount in a very short time. A lot of the myths and misunderstandings got cleared up and you'll learn how and why things are done the way they are. You'll also meet other people who have different ideas about things that may or may not be of help. You'll also get to work with equipment you otherwise would never see or know about.

I wouldn't mind taking the course again, to get a better look at some of the equipment they had there, and see what's new.

[lsn110]

You sound like me when I was 16...except for the part about recording. Hell...I even went to Shaker.

The music bug hadn't fully bitten me yet. That happened at college (SUNY Binghamton). My education there was strictly DIY and started more from the listening to a ton of different stuff at WHRW (Radio). I did some audio production work there, but I do look back somewhat wistfully and wish that Binghamton had some kind of recording classes.

As I see it, you're at an advantage, as you already know the basics (or more) of recording a band. It may not always work out the way you want, and that's what school might be able get you. You'll also be able to smell bullshit when it comes wafting up from the teacher's maw.

With your academic standing, I'd definitely suggest finding a solid 4 yr. college that has both good academics and a good recording program. Unfortunately, I don't know where that is.

I'm sincerely hoping that Skidmore (my employ) does the studio right when they build the new music building...After all, Emily Lazar went here.

[BJohnston]

I went to school for audio. Reason being I was from a small town in the middle of nowhere and had no clue how to get into record production. It was one of the more well known schools in the US. They sold me on the "the Dream". I'll say this, if your there to learn and absorb knowledge it can be a good thing. I'll also say that when I came out of there I was woken up by the reality of the business. I went on to get an "Internship", which is a huge selling point for some schools, that became a free labor gig. I ended quitting and then finding a studio that I could actually work out of as a producer/engineer and just start making records. That was the best route for me to go. I've learned more by doing it myself. Would have been cool to set in on some session with big name producer...blah, blah, blah, but the hoops you have to jump through are rediculous. I couldn't take hamburger orders and listen to the shit talk for very long. My advice in a nut shell, find a school that won't break the bank on you or find a studio that would be willing to train and work with you as an intern or assistant. Good luck with your search. Remember to do what you love to do. The reward isn't always financial. Especially in todays market, the Big Studio gigs are harder and harder to find. Oh yeah, get a subscription to TapeOp magazine. One of the best down to earth recording magazines out there.

BJohnston

[henryrobinett]

At this point I'd ask my self who you want to be. Don't forget to also ask yourself what you want to have. Those have to do with what you want TO DO.

Being a musician is not being an engineer, although the two things are not mutually exclusive, necessarily. Each can be fulltiime occupations. If you're currently practicing 6 hours a day I'd like to see you to continue. Once you start engineering there goes your hours and your skill set as well.

College would be very important for you I'd think. It teaches and divies out a bunch of vital information enveloped in the much larger arena of bullshit. Your job would be to separate them into orders of importances/unimportances/what I need to get my degree and pass exams bs. But it also introduces you to a whole society of folk who may be very important to you down the line.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to be a musician, don't dilly and dally. Be the best you can be. Learn he skills to be a working pro. If you want to be an engineer do the same. Don't give up on the other, but put them in their proper perspective. Otherwise you may be simply mediocre rather than . . . .

Other opinions will vary and that's certainly fine by me.

[joelgtrnut]

I went to college for business instead. Music school was a waste of time for me (as I had 8 years violin, and 6 years of guitar already under my belt). I passed out of theory and all that crap, but they wanted me to take the classes. Why waste time in music history class? I can get that same education for $5 in late fees at the local library. Instead I independently studied audio engineering and practiced guitar like 4-8 hours a day.

Now I have a business degree to fall back on incase anything goes wrong (like my hands get chopped off and I can't play guitar or I loose my hearing).

Now I run my own studio. I'm make enough money where I'm quitting my sh*tty bank day job in 2 weeks from now. I also do some touring w/ my band, getting my first book published on guitar..ect... A good idea is to think about multiple streams of income. You've got a lot of options being young. (hell I'm only 23 myself) Be smart, plan ahead, and you'll do great! Diversify your income streams and network with as many as you can. Always be the best you can be at everything you do.

The most important advice I would say is to study, learn, and read everything you can! The more you know, the better off you are!

Good luck.

[henryrobinett]

Absolutely. Multiple streams of income is the way. That's one of the main reasons I took up engineering. But it hasn't help my jazz chops. I teach music in college too. But I'm still primarily a musician who still tries to get in 2 hours of practice a day. But hey! I'm 49. Always made a career out of music. Never had anything to fall back on. I personally didn't want the safety net because I wasn't going to fail. Safety net presupposes failure.

[sleepwalker]

Originally Posted by Paul David

You'll probably get some good advice. Here's some bad advice just to get the ball rollin. I quit school and went on tour when I was your age. A decade later and I've always made a living making music. I was touring and doing studio work. Now I'm producing and teaching, I only play out when the money is real tight.

I did a session tonight with an 18 year old alto sax player/rapper who got a full ride to Berkley. He's debating on wether he should go or just jump into his career right now. I think he should go. Some of my favorite musicians dropped out of Berkley.

You don't turn down a full ride. Well... I don't turn down a full ride. College is an experience as well.

[tunesmith]

Did the college music major thing... had a great time and I learned a lot. Of course, being a Chrsitian college... I had to unlearn just about as much as I learned, but that's another story.

I always say (I am 28, so it wasn't THAT long ago) that college is a place where you transition to a fully formed person. Even in the womb-like environment of my college experience, I was able to meet enough adversity and challenges to help me deal with the transition from home life to independent life. It's my experience that people who don't go to college seem to have a more rigid view of the world, the viewpoint that they grew up with or are rebelling against. It's especially exaserbated if they go straight from mom and pop's into the military... yikes... talk about only knowing one way to do things and an inability to be flexible.... unless your life purpose is taking out your enemy's forward position, in which case I am totally useless.

With that said, I fully endorse the multiple streams of income philosophy that other other folks have talked about. I make money from my church gig, vocal sessions, production, etc. My wife does voice lessons, sessions, gigs, etc. We have earned a living one of the most expensive places in the world (south Ventura county near L.A.) for 6 years now and we wouldn't trade our lovely little condo for a big mansion and a 9-5 any day of any week.

You will grow a LOT in college and you will hopefully make friends and contacts that can help you out over the years. I still am in contact with my buddies from that era, and not only is the friendship great, but I have contacts all over the country that I wouldn't have had if I didn't do the time there.

ESPECIALLY if someone else is going to pay... oh MAN. Don't go for the "career enhancement" as you will most likely not find any immediate path to making it. Go for the experience.

My $.02

Hope you find joy wherever you go.

Tunes.

Originally Posted by Zeppelin4Life

Considering I practice drums or guitar like 6 hours a day thats all I do anymore and recording has become part of who I am. Im wondering how many actually went to a school for audio and got something out of it. Im a junior in HS now. My average is around 92 and my SAT is expected to be like 2000/2400. thanks !

It really depends on who you are- there is no way you are going to get anything but a lot of conflicting opinions from other people.
What do you want to do?

For me- I was semi-pro (read horrendously in debt) for years and years.
Buying my own gear, teaching myself how it worked, working with unsigned bands and the occasional pro.
There is a certain satisfaction that comes from that- but to be honest I found more than a few years quite depressing.
These days I work full time in music and I couldnt be happier.
If I had a way where I could compress all that learning into a few years then I wouldnt pass it up- I am not sure you would get that in most engineering schools.
Do you want to be a drummer or a guitarist or a producer or an engineer, or a combination of all or a few of these?
If you havent decided yet and want to leave it a while then a music school where you learn a bunch of different skills might be a good idea.

[kennyd03]

I say definitely go to college! There are many colleges that have recording classes. I also think that a college degree is ultimately more valuable than a specialized recording school.

For me, college was a whole life enriching experience that I am grateful for. I have many close friends I made there that I still keep in touch with. Some of them have actually been really great music contacts (they end up knowing people that they connect me with).

If for no other reason, go to college for the chicks.

Serious.


(assuming you are male and straight)

-KD03

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by sleepwalker

You don't turn down a full ride. Well... I don't turn down a full ride. College is an experience as well.

True, but this little joker already has mouths to feed. I guess everyone's situation is different. Zep seems to be scoring off the charts on his SAT's + he has a 92... That's gotta mean something to someone in admissions. If you get a full ride to Berkley or somewhere similar, jump on it. You can always drop out but you can't always drop in.

[johnnyrock]

Originally Posted by ixnys

I thought the highest score you could get on the SAT was a 1600.

There are three section,math,verbal,and logic analyses.Total possible points is 2400 but most schools only look at math and verbal .

[Peter Morrison]

I was in your shoes 3 years ago... and now I just finished my sophomore year at Ithaca College, working on a degree in music recording... now before everyone jumps on me about "recording school" it's not, it's a music school that happens to have a decent recording program (but as with most of life, you have what you are given, then you need to take the rest)

If you think you are talented enough musically, and actually want to continue it I'd look at SUNY Ferdonia and Ithaca College, both places give you a solid music education with a decent audio part to go along with it. But this means you'd have to study Sight singing, Theory, music history... so if you're not into that lean more towards a tech school.

Your Grades are similar to mine (I had at 1350 with the old way, so that lines up) and both schools accepted me.

this is just some food for thought I guess, if you're in the Ithaca area shoot me an email, I'd be happy to show you around, I'll be here all summer

Good luck
Peter

[Kenny Gioia]

I'm a huge believer in college.

But not for music.

[toledo3]

Practicing 6 hours a day? Great!

Now get out of the room, and on to the STAGE!

In my opinion-

If you are serious about MUSIC, and your MUSIC, you need to get as many live performance hours under your belt as possible. You need to get to the point that when you walk on stage, a sense of calm comes over you, because you have played so many times, and dropped jaws so many times, that you KNOW you are good at it.

You can sit on the couch and practive all day, every day, but until you hit the stage and get a REACTION it is all THEORY.

You need to really think about what you want to be doing for your career.

I have known many people that get gear, and learn to record, because they are going to do their "album". Years down the road, they are sitting behind the board wanting to bang their head into the wall at all the crappy talent they are RECORDING....when THEY are probably much better. It is easy to get off track. That was the same situation I had gotten myself into, and finally, I got sick of it.

But, most important thing- get out there and perform. That is what is going to polish off your skills, and seperate you from all the loser hacks you see on TV that can't play when the pressure is on.

[DannyDay]

OK, my two cents...

As a music school grad and recording dude, I must say both playing and recording music are things you learn by doing. What you might learn in a classroom is certainly valuable, but _doing it_ is where it's at.

If you're looking to get into recording, the best thing to do IMO is to find a _good_ internship at a _good_ studio that's doing _major_ work. It's true, there are fewer around but they do exist. If you work you ass off and have a good attitude, you'll do very well. If you're a lazy stoner, you probably won't. The key is finding the right studio. Be ready to work for free (for a whlie).

If you insist on a recording school, go to a school with a shorter program. Get the basics, don't waste time. Don't buy into the hype. It's like djwayne said "...learned a tremendous amount in a very short time. A lot of the myths and misunderstandings got cleared up and you'll learn how and why things are done the way they are...."

If you want to get into playing, college is fantastic. The key is to not take the classes and grades too seriously. College is a great place to meet other musicians, establish relationships, get and play gigs. Play, play, play!! I made the mistake of working hard on the academics; bad move. Music is about playing gigs (practicing too) not the classroom. Look at college as a place to hang out with musicians while you set up your next big gig.

There, I've said it. Hope the best for you.

DD.

[karatemanjohnny]

Some people are very self-motivated to learn on their own and teach themselves. Others prefer to be guided by more experienced people.

I've always been taught that the goal of schooling is to "learn how to learn" - then you can go out into the world and teach yourself new things and be self reliant for knowledge.

I went to college for philosophy and I've been graduated for about 10 months and I'm dedicating all of my energy to making a living off recording.

I would say, if you're gonna go to school for recording, go to a university. If you go to one of these little BS places that cost way too much money, I'd just say to buy some great books and gear.

There's a place near me that costs thousands of dollars, and I think it is a complete ripoff.

There are a lot of great books out there where you can learn a lot - get the textbooks from the college courses, if you don't go to college for it.

Good luck!

[alphajerk]

go to college.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by DannyDay

...If you're looking to get into recording, the best thing to do IMO is to find a _good_ internship at a _good_ studio that's doing _major_ work. It's true, there are fewer around but they do exist. If you work you ass off and have a good attitude, you'll do very well.....

I agree totally. You can't get into an internship young enough. If you can't find a studio, try a local public radio station. Choose schools and internships according to the calibre of musicians and producers you can meet there.

It's all about who knows what you know and about people trusting you to never bullshit them.

[tunesmith]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I'm a huge believer in college.

But not for music.

I agree... sort of. I think college is what you make it, and musical connections and a fertile creative environment are very possible.

With that said... I agree with Produceher in that anyone hoping that college will propel them into a musical career is mistaken. It may equip you to launch it, but it will not do it. Expect a personal experience and something that will benefit you for a lifetime, but not a career.

Tunes.

[ozraves]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin4Life

Considering I practice drums or guitar like 6 hours a day thats all I do anymore and recording has become part of who I am. Im wondering how many actually went to a school for audio and got something out of it. Im a junior in HS now. My average is around 92 and my SAT is expected to be like 2000/2400. thanks !

Go to a real college. Get a real degree. Lead a happy life. Good luck.

[Dot]

Some Thoughts on Audio Engineering as a Career
http://www.studioreviews.com/engineering_career.htm

[ringo.fire]

my 0.02€ cent

I have frequently internships in my studio. most of them from colleges and universities. sometimes just interested starters.
my experience is, that the college guys in most cases are less usefull than ecpected. They have a lot of knowledge, but without connection to daytime praxis.

the best guy I ever had studies media tecnology, without any recording degree.
he is at first a musician (electronical music)
but he is very talented and learned all the recording stuff during the internship.
his knowledge of tecnical basics is a big contribution to my facility. thats why he allready has his own room at my place and does serious work - at the free time he has.
after college he will make enough money to spent a living.

the studied recording guys (at least the ones I met) often expect a kind of garanty to get work because of their degree (like a doctor or something)
but I give a f**k on degrees as a employer. I need serious, experienced people. they have to be addicted to music.

all the pro- producers i know came from the music side and discovered someday their recording talent.
I guess its easier to learn the tecnical aspect of recording than stuff like musical taste and a trained ear....
and as a touring musician you will build up a big network of people you can work for as a producer!

so go to college, but at first start touring and learn everything about music: in a band with an audience giving you a degree...
start an internship at a studio

there are other stories for shure, but this is what I experience

ringo.fire

[oudplayer]

I learned a bit about recording music in college.

I was supposed to be the "teaching assistant" for a one-semester course in recording theory and the physics of sound. Two weeks into the course the professor suddenly left (to go create some "sound sculptures" in Germany or something like that) and I had the entire course for the rest of the semester.

And the studio wasn't hooked up, at all. There was a huge blank patchbay, and a couple miles of unlabeled wires.

Let's just say, soldering is much quicker now than it was that first weekend.

But back to the topic, it was quite accidental, and didn't directly lead to a career in recording music.

I really think your way into "the studio" is through a band (or three or five) that you become well known in. Make your own recordings on the side, get a degree in anything but audio recording. An EE degree might come in real handy in the future. Take some music classes (harmony, sight-reading, counterpoint, conducting, gamelan) on the side if you're lacking in any of those skills.

Or just don't go to college at all. I have several friends gigging full-time in the Bay Area here who never even finished classes in High School, got GED diplomas, and went straight into teaching and gigging. It might really piss off your parents, though.

[joeq]

You say you play guitar and drums 6 hours a day, but you ask about a recording career. Are you tracking and mixing 6 hours a day?

I teach some introductory audio classes at a college. The biggest mistake I see young people make is looking at recording as if it were some sort of "fall back" to being a musician. Perhaps because it involves machines instead of instruments, I don't know. Everybody understands what a crap shoot a musical career is, but a lot of them seem to think recording is somehow different.

From what I have seen, they both require the same kind of inborn talent, fanatical dedication, long dues paying period, hustle, and a certain amount luck to work out. And while you _need education/instruction/training, the guys with the chops get the gigs, diplomas notwithstanding.

being skilled on both sides of the glass is an excellent way to make a go of it as a freelancer- that's what I do. (with some teaching on the side ) Other people will point out that competition is so fierce that maybe you are better off picking one thing and concentrating on that. Two valid viewpoints- only you can decide.

But if you are looking for a safety net, get a law degree or open a dry cleaners.