+4 line level to hi-z instrument level?

[edIT]

I am looking for a box that is essentially a reverse DI. most DI's go from a hi-z instrument level signal to a balanced +4 mic level signal. well I'm looking for a box that will go from a +4 line level signal (like out of my Rosetta) to a hi-z instrument level signal. Essentially I want to run some of my guitar pedals as inserts. the little labs red eye is close, but it seems like a preamp is needed because it outputs at mic level. any suggestions?

[songman]

Great question, you read my mind. I'm considering a Pod XT Live because it is 30% cheaper than the rack model, but it only has a hi-z in and line out so in order to use it as an insert I'd need a similar box. Look forward to suggestions.

[5down1up]

redeye will do it ... its either a d.i box or a reamp box ( converts the balanced in to instrument level ) . to hook up the stomp boxes youll need another d.i as well ( for the out ) .

[edIT]

well i'm a little confused, cuz don't most DI's convert from unbalanced instrument level to mic level? I need a box that goes back and forth from +4 line level to hi impedance unbalanced instrument level

[5down1up]

confused ?

felt the same way , till i finally ordered one ... better said two

redeye :

" usual d.i " box ... converts instruments levels into a balanced signal + you can go to an amp as well . great d.i , sounds nice + the ground lift features etc do work for real ( no more pain when splitting signals to multiple amps etc. )

" reamp " box ... converts balanced signals into instrument level . this way you can send " any " signal out of your recorder back to an guitar amp or stomp box etc .

if your using an amp , you probably just mic the amp , so thats your way back .
if you want to hook up stomp boxes or any gear that works on instrument level you need another d.i ( an active one [ am i wrong ? ] ) to get back to your RETURN or in your case daw input . you can use a passive one as well but that way you would need another amplifier like a preamp etc .

sounds kinda complicated but really is ... " easy " if you have the box in your hand and see it with your own eyes .

[edIT]

okay i understand how it goes from line level to hi-z but how does the DI go from hi-z to +4 line level? The XLR out is mic level. I know the Expansion outs are TRS but do they output at +4 line level?

[Messiah]

FWIW, I have a BOSS GX-700 that contains a loop send and return on the back, designed so you can integrate a pedal(s) into it's algorithms (at any point in the chain).
I use it most frequently to get my Dynacomp functioning at -10 or +4.

I also have a Kenton GS8 (I think that's the model...) which is 8 midi programable send/return loops in 1u that I usually have 8 pedals permanently hooked up to that I use in conjunction with the GX-700's loop facility.

It's a very handy little setup and does exactly what the original post asked for...

[5down1up]

now i am confused hrhrhr


like i said , if you want to hook up stomp boxes etc to your daw you need ...

the redeye for the OUT of your daw + one d.i box for the IN . the redeye on its own is not able to do it . it still has 2 options ( d.i OR reamp ) , but not at the same time .

did ya get it ?

[edIT]

yeah i get it essentially the red eye is only gonna be the bridge between your DA and pedal. so the chain should look like this:


DA -> LLabs red Eye -> Fav pedal -> Some sort of Mic Pre w/ DI Inputs -> AD

[songman]

Why is it that even the most simple little gimmick you need is priced in multiples of 250$.

[5down1up]

perfect @ ediT ...

@ songman : its not a simple lil gimmick at all ...

[coppage]

jmk audio

This guy makes a reamp box to do what you want.

[NathanEldred]

This will do the trick...

http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp.htm

[cl516]

Can the Avalon U5 do this ?

[Amplove]

yeah, what he said...
buy the Radial X-Amp.

Out of your recorder-> into your effect box/pedal of choice ->into a DI-> back into your recorder.

The beauty of the X-Amp which I haven't seen in any other "re-amp" box is that it has 2 outputs so you can go crazy complete with polarity reversal. I got mine from Vintage King for $175 with shipping and it's built like a tank.

Get it and you're problem will be solved.

j.

[songman]

Originally Posted by 5down1up

perfect @ ediT ...

@ songman : its not a simple lil gimmick at all ...

As far as I can see it is purely a matter of levels right? If not, then would you care to explain.

[title]

another vote for the X-AMP by Radial (radialeng.com). fantastic box. thumbsup

[Thermionic]

A passive solution, i.e. a transformer would be my choice for this application.

The only off-the-shelf unit that springs to mind would be a Jensen: http://www.jensentransformers.com/as/as092.pdf

Cheers,
Justin

Also check out the Focusrite Tone Factory.
It is a channel strip, similat to the the Voicemaster, but has a Hi Z input AND a -20db output so you can take a line out of your DAW, into the Line in on the Tone Factory and then out at -20db to go striaght into a guitar amp.
I use it to reamp all the time.
Sounds better than a Pod Pro XT for this purpose as there is no digital conversion in the unite- it is an analog preamp.

JR

[Ruphus]

Just received the X-amp two weeks or so ago. Havn´t used it yet ( must be great, very well reputated ), and jeez that box is HEAVY DUTY build!

Ruphus

[tomhaelvoet]

somebody told me once a passive di could do the trick

tsr to female xlr >> di >> unbalanced signal to stompbox

tried it a few times, it worked - but I don't remember if it actually sounded good...

[dharma one]

a simple passive DI (transformer) works, but you should probably use your aux sends to the DI instead of tape out etc, so you have level adjustment. standard line level signal is much hotter than instrument and youre likely to overload the input (of your guitar amp, pedal etc) if you dont adjust the levels like this

[brianroth]

The reamp box is one of the long-running solutions. If you're interested in the inner workings, go to the US patent Office websiite and look up their patent number.

http://www.reamp.com/

I know several local studios that have the Littlelabs Redeye as well.

Bri

[entropy]

Or how about the Little Labs Multi Z? I'm sure it handle whatever level you throw at it.

[brianroth]

Yeah, the Multi Z is another possibility, but I've never used one.

I'm currently fooling around with a bench design for a "swiss army knife" box to do conversions from one analog level to another. It began life as a truly High Z DI box, but has now now morphed into other facets as well, including re-amplification.

Bri

[tony666]

Originally Posted by brianroth

The reamp box is one of the long-running solutions. If you're interested in the inner workings, go to the US patent Office websiite and look up their patent number.

or go to this site and question why the hell they needed a patent for? http://www.muzique.com/lab/patent1.htm

[brianroth]

I'm not defending the patent. I cobbled together virtually the same thing in the mid 70's when I needed to feed a send from a desk to a Leslie combo preamp.

I was just posting the info in case someone was interested in how, in effect, a DI could be used backwards.

Bri

[danalexander]

A DI DOES NOT WORK ACCEPTABLY FOR REAMPING. IT SOUNDS LIKE DOOKEY. REASON? wrong impedance........REAMPING FROM +4 TO AN INSTRUMENT LEVEL REQUIRES LEVEL AS WELL AS IMPEDANCE MATCHING. THE TYPICAL IMPEDANCE OF A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT AMPLIFIER INPUT IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 60,OOO OR 80 ,OOO OHMS.

YES , THE JOB CAN BE DONE WITH A TRANSFORMER ( AND ASSOCIATED CIRCUITRY) , BUT NOT THE SAME TRANNY AS A DI, WHICH TYPICALLY GOES FROM MUSICAL INSTRUMENT LEVEL INPUT TO 150 OHM microphone LEVEL.....YOU PLUG A DI BOXES BALANCED OUTPUT INTO A MIC PRE.....YOU PLUG THE UNBALANCED OUTPUT OF A REAMP INTO A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT AMPLIFIER OR EFFECTS UNIT. TWO WILDLY DIFFERENT ELECTRONIC SITUATIONS. AND A DI BACKWARDS DOES NOT,NOT ,NOT EQUAL A REAMP....NOR CAN TWO DI BOXES EQUAL ONE REAMP....

I REALIZE THAT IMPEDANCE IS A CONCEPT THAT IS DIFFICULT FOR A LOT OF AUDIO HOBBYISTS..

AS FAR AS "WHY DID THEY NEED A PATENT"? THAT IS A MORONIC QUESTION AND ISNT REALLY MEANT AS A QUESTION AT ALL.....RATHER, ITS A DORMROOM COMMENT ON ONES DESIRE TO PROFIT FROM ONES WORK ...NOT A MOTIVE SOME OF YOU GUYS APPLAUD, I GATHER.... YOUD RATHER DOWNLOAD ALL YER MUSIC FER FREE THAN PAY FOR IT., RIGHT? .............OBVIOUSLY, PATENTS ARE MEANT TO PROTECT INTELLECUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS, SO THAT INVENTORS CAN REALIZE THE PROFITS FROM THEIR INVENTIONS...BY THE WAY , IT COSTS ABOUT $15,000 TO GET A PATENT APPROVED. NOT AN EASY AMOUNT TO RECOUP FROM A BOX THAT COSTS $200 OR SO . ... ANYONE WHO THINKS THE REAMP IS OVERPRICED KNOWS NOTHING WHATSOEVER ABOUT MANUFACTURING COSTS. I LOVE THE REAMP; I SELL THE REAMP ; I USE THE REAMP AND MY TECHS HELPED DESIGN THE ORIGINAL REAMP; STILL THE BEST ONE...........THE REAMP IS A REAL TIME, REAL WORLD SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM THAT ENGINEERS HAVE UNSUCCESFULLY STRUGGLED WITH FOR YEARS... IT IS A TRUELY USEFUL TOOL THAT HAS OPENED UP A NEW WORLD OF MIXING POSSABILITIES, AND REPRESENTS ONE OF THE FEW PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS TO THE LACK OF ANALOG QUALITY IN THE DIGITAL REALM.... THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF RECORDING PROFESSIONALS, FROM THE STONES ON DOWN , USING THE REAMP TO IMPROVE THEIR RECORDINGS.

SOME OF YOU GUYS OUGHT TO BE LESS CONCERNED WITH COMMERCIAL ETHICS AND MORE WITH PLAYING A C AND A G CHORD....AND WRITING LYRICS....

DAN ALEXANDER ( NOT THE FOOTBALL PLAYER)

[entropy]

Did you feel the need the shout the whole reply Dan?

[danalexander]

iS THIS THE MOST GERMANE COMMENT YOU CAN MAKE ABOUT MY POST?
I gather you have nothing else to contribute but corrections of my typing ; how about some spelling corrections? Are you at all interested in audio or just bored? dan alexander