The right DISTANCE between MOUTH and MIC

[MotionPictureMan]

Hi!
I'm not sure this is the right section for this post but I'm sure you can help me. It's about recording LEAD vocals.
The thing is I've learned during my SAE studies and in books about recording that the mic should be placed AT LEAST 10 cm away from the vocalist's mouth to avoid the proximity effect (at least when using a cardoid pattern). But I've assisted some sessions where the producer asks the vocalist to eat the mic. And it wasn't always rock or hiphop. I must say it sounds very good, very "in your face". So I'm thinking: the closer the better. Especially if love, like me, to hear the grain of the voice. But will it be a nightmare for the mixing engineer?
What do you think?
BTW I mostly use a U87Ai on vox, through a TubeTecj MP1A.

[narcoman]

a very good example of why music tech course are bunk - this is a production based thing. If you want proximity use a cardioid mic close up. If not - move back or a different pattern or a mic that doesn't have have proxofectitis. 6 to 8 inches is great for good ol' soul vocals. But if you want the Radiohead thing - eat it....

[soundsundergroun]

for me it really depends on the singer's voice but i start somewhere like 5 inches away

[Unclenny]

Gotta work the mic.


All It Left Me

[travisbrown]

Good singers who know what they are doing with a mic can use proximity to great effect. It shouldn't *always* be avoided.

If the singer has distance problems, stick up a pop filter. It's a good leash for singers.

[BOWIE]

The correct distance is the one that sounds right.

[EMYHR]

yeah pretty much what he said, it all depends what sounds the best with the artist and how it fits them, me i like to be about a inch from my pop filter which is prolly like 4 to 5 inches from the mic.

[Makinithappen]

Personally, I dont tell the vocalist anything. I wait and see what they naturally do and if it sounds bad... I do something about it. Change the pattern, move the pop filter, change mics...

If it sounds good... well... great.

I've found that if you try to make the vocalist stay in a certain position, they still have a tendency to go back to where they feel the most comfortable, and then I get uneven vocals throughout the course of the song.

[NathanEldred]

It's very dependent on the mic and how you want the voice to sound. Different mics will have various proximity effect in cardioid or fig 8. Some mics have more of a boost (for example I believe a u47 is 10db up @ 100hz at 1inch from the grille of the mic). A lot of people who are just starting out don't know much about proximity effect and how it can change the frequency response. Those new to recording also seem to be stuck in cardioid for most things, fig 8 and omni are not just for orchestras or barber shop quartets.

Omni basically has no proximity effect, so if that pattern sounds right on your vocal (I've noticed females can often sound good in omni on many mics), so you can get away with being very close to the mic without plosives. A pop screen helps greatly. So forget about the rules, and experiment with distance...from up close to a foot or more away. If it sounds right in the track, then it is right. Just use your gut instinct and don't worry about what people 'say' is correct, recording is an art and not a static activity because of that.

[YRLK]

The point everyone's trying to make can best be summed up by Joe Meek: "if it sounds right, it is right."

You have to decide what's working and what's not, you know what I mean? There are rules like the 3:1 ratio that generally helps with phasing for spaced pairs. This is a rule that's good to follow - for spaced pairs. And there are other generally "technically" correct rules to follow depending on what you're doing as well, but the bottom line is: these rules can all be altered and/or completely broken depending on the sound/mix that you're building.

Always use your ears and your heart... they are the best tools to tell and teach you. =)

God bless - B

[JMc]

I remember watching Barry White singing on TV in the '70's. The distance between his mouth and the mic was ZERO to NEGATIVE 1/8". I have not adopted this technique for my VO work. Besides, doing so would probably void the warranty on my Pearlman TM-1.

[MotionPictureMan]

Thanx, all.
thumbsup

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by yrlk

... There are rules like the 3:1 ratio that generally helps with phasing for spaced pairs. This is a rule that's good to follow - for spaced pairs.
...
God bless - B

Hi,

I just thought I'd clarify that the 3:1 rule doesn't pertain to spaced pair mics on a single source. This is because it's underlying principle is of amplitude attenuation. So in effect, the very essence of a "spaced pair" is contradictory to this approach because spaced pair stereo recording is intended to capture a source with relative equal amplitude. If this weren't so, the mics wouldn't be equally spaced.

The principal of 3:1 is aimed towards multiple mics on different sources.


-SD

[Infernal Device]

For the last couple years my mic has become farther and farther away from the vocalist.

The last really good singer I had was about 2 feet away from the u87, it sounded so huge and upfront, so much detail.

When I hear music that the singer was an inch off the grill, it sounds detached from the music because of an unnatural magnification of detail compared to the other instruments.

For me, I have found that LDC's were made to "reach", and work their best when they do. I get *way * more full-body from two feet away.

I also think the sound of the singer is more than their mouth. Nose, throat, chest, body, the sound is from all of those.