Protools HD studio mic pres and tracking gear only(world class sound) Are we there?

[alphajerk]

the new tape companies are BOUTIQUE companies who wil probably not turn much of a profit simply due to the fact that hte music industry is a VERY small market, and tape manufacturing is now a niche market.

as for mixing ITB vs analog board... i can make both work but i feel severely limited creatively on an analog board whereas i do not ITB. ITB a whole new creative world has opened up and having automated EVERYTHING combined with INSTANT recall purely outweighs anything analog has to offer since i can pretty much get the same sound either way. i will agree that sometimes it takes longer to get what you want ITB when you are massively correcting judgement errors from tracking but wiht great tracking, i think its just as fast and just as easy with just as good of a result. BUT the way you approach the two formats are entirely different... and if you think its the same, then you are probably the same one complaining of how much ITB sucks. same goes with tracking to analog vs digital... its DIFFERENT. it will always be different, and to think otherwise is shortsighted and no wonder you arent getting pleasing results working with digital. they are two different animals and should be treated as such.

[alphajerk]

as for things improving. i think EVERYTHING can be improved from the mic to the pre to the comps to the eq's to the convertors to the way dsp is handled [side note for analog, i think analog board can be improved heavily as well and should always strive for a "Better" design]

if one stops improving ANYTHING, then why bother doing anything?


simple fact is both digital and analog [whichever you prefer] are both capable mediums to create music with. its simply just a subjective choice in the way YOU work now. so go create music and quit worrying about the gear and LEARN the gear you have/

[Johnny B]

Yeah, but digital still sounds like ass. You don't have to agree. it's Ok to disagree. After all, I'm just your average nobody and only know what I like to listen to.

I find that when I listen or work with digital, I become "fatigued" much faster and I get a headache which requires me to take a much longer break.

Lot of people like digital editing, but few, truly love the sound of digital when comnpared to good analogue.

Like the man above said: "Even my girlfirend could hear the difference."

In another 5 to 10 years --- maybe --- just maybe --- digital will get "There."

It's a good thing that AKM, Analog Devices, Burr-Brown and all the top modern chip makers are still working on the AD/DA chips, maybe with all the combined R&D money...it will get "There" in less time than the 5-to-10 year estimate.

I'm not holding my breath tho'

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

simple fact is both digital and analog [whichever you prefer] are both capable mediums to create music with. its simply just a subjective choice in the way YOU work now. so go create music and quit worrying about the gear and LEARN the gear you have/

That's It.

on a side note, I think that technology is always striving for ways to improve productivity/production, wich for me, in this creative area...music, is,... trying to get as close as posible to a pefect phisical complement for the Mind. I believe all gear is trying to do that, though, I must say that computers are the closest attempt we are achieving. Like Alpha said:

as for mixing ITB vs analog board... i can make both work but i feel severely limited creatively on an analog board whereas i do not ITB. ITB a whole new creative world has opened up and having automated EVERYTHING combined with INSTANT recall purely outweighs anything analog has to offer since i can pretty much get the same sound either way. i will agree that sometimes it takes longer to get what you want ITB when you are massively correcting judgement errors from tracking but wiht great tracking, i think its just as fast and just as easy with just as good of a result.

This has open a whole new world of creative options that we had not mature quite yet. We should be able to create all sounds in or heads and expect Technology to recreate them exactly as they were meant. Gear should be an extension of the intellect....it already is but in it's infancy....Education, tons of it...that's the quest!!

[alphajerk]

well, i think analog sounds like ass... you dont have to agree. i think digital sounds better than analog. it sounds more like what i hear in the room. analog never got THERE... and i dont think it ever will.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

well, i think analog sounds like ass... you dont have to agree. i think digital sounds better than analog. it sounds more like what i hear in the room. analog never got THERE... and i dont think it ever will.

LMFBO

I know it doesn't matter that nobody agrees with you so I don't mind telling you, you're wrong.

And nobody's mileage should vary.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by Johnny B

Yeah, but digital still sounds like ass. You don't have to agree.

Originally Posted by Alphajerk

well, i think analog sounds like ass... you dont have to agree.

...is this ASS the new Beatles...everybody sounds like them
fuuck

[alphajerk]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I know it doesn't matter that nobody agrees with you so I don't mind telling you, you're wrong..

well, i think you should start talking to more people then, cause there happens to be a lot of people who do agree with me. not that i even give a shit what other people think about it all or what they work with.... im simply laying it out plain and simple that i PREFER digital over analog. its not sacrilegious to say so nor is it misinformed on my part. i have used both and i prefer digital.

and it aint availability or money either. i can easily go 10 minutes down the road and record on a studer 2" for $50/hr.

nevermind the point that ALL OF THIS is purely subjective. there is NO absolute.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

well, i think you should start talking to more people then, cause there happens to be a lot of people who do agree with me. not that i even give a shit what other people think about it all or what they work with.... im simply laying it out plain and simple that i PREFER digital over analog. its not sacrilegious to say so nor is it misinformed on my part. i have used both and i prefer digital.

and it aint availability or money either. i can easily go 10 minutes down the road and record on a studer 2" for $50/hr.

nevermind the point that ALL OF THIS is purely subjective. there is NO absolute.

You want to say that you prefer working on Digital, I'm right there with ya.

Whatever turns you on.

But to say "Analog sounds like ass" is absolutely assinine and I won't let you get away with it.

Are you trying to say that all music recorded before 1999 sounds like ass?

You show me one professional who agrees with you.

[alphajerk]

Originally Posted by Produceher

But to say "Analog sounds like ass" is absolutely assinine and I won't let you get away with it.

nah man... i was mocking the mocking bird on that one.

you can see from my history of posts in here whatever makes ya happy, go with it.

[Johnny B]

So some people want to mock good analogue by calling it "ass" when compared to digital, now look who is wrong?

Like I said, maybe in 5 to 10 years digital will get "There."

"Even [the] girlfriend(s) can hear the difference."

[alphajerk]

no, im mocking you... but there is way more bad analog than good analog. same goes for digital. good analog and good digital are one in the same yet totally different things.

my wife can hear differences too... and it has nothing to do with analog or digital but engineers.

[Duardo]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Digital Sound Quality has NO ROOM for improvement

That says it all right there!

-Duardo

[Johnny B]

That's funny. Nice misqote or out-of-context quote. Good one.

In the sense that digital handles the headroom issue far differently from the way analogue does, there really is no room for digital to improve...once you clip in digital ...it's over.

But I know you and I agree about there being plenty of room for digital sound quality to improve.

That's all I really want, I just want the digital tech to advance in such a way that the sound quality improves.

[achtung baby]

how about instead of arguing about digital vs analog, try embracing the positives of both? for a LONG time i wouldn't even consider using pro tools...but once i tried it i fell in love with certain things. will i ever completely get rid of tape? hell no, much less my outboard gear...but i think digital can be used for incredibly creative, nice sounding music. COMBINING the digital and analog mediums is where it's at in my opinion. i love tracking to tape, importing it to pro tools, running Live in rewire and completely changing what i recorded in new and exciting ways. i personally wouldn't work with just pro tools and plug ins, mixing ITB, but i'm sure it can be done with stellar results.

also...aren't the realms of analog vs digital kind of broad? we refer to 'plug ins' but theres a HUGE difference between the real cheap stuff and the sony oxford stuff for example. it's like comparing the sound of a mackie to a neve. that same analogy can be used many many times over in this argument. dig?

IMO, the pros of digital compensate for the cons of analog and vice versa. i believe companies like lavry and prism and even apogee will continue to devlop the quality and flexibility of converters, enabling an even smoother interfacing of digital with analog with even greater amounts of detail and clarity.

of course, my ears could just not be as good as you guys and i don't hear quite the sonic difference. i hear a difference between pre and post conversion tracks but i don't find it to be sonically crippling.

still, the best setup for my band when we record in my studio is to track to 2 inch->manipulate sounds and possibly do slight overdubbing->mix through the board with outboard gear onto 1/2 inch.


whew...that was a lot of typing for me.

[Duardo]

how about instead of arguing about digital vs analog, try embracing the positives of both?

I don't think that there is a "great" analog vs digital debate...there's only one person here who's really trying to keep that nonexistent argument going. The terms "analog" and "digital" encompass far too much to try to pit them "against" each other.

-Duardo

[Johnny B]

We may disagree about the "Great War Between Digital and Analogue." As I see it, it is merely a continuation of the "War Between Tubes vs. Discrete Transistors vs. Silicon Op Amps" which has been raging for over 30 years.

Here's a link to Doug Fearn's website (www.dwfearn.com) where he has posted the famous Russell O. Hamm 1973 AES white paper. It's worth a read (or re-read) and may provide some important clues or help spur new or additional thinking for those interested in improving digital's sterile and brittle sound quality.

Check it out here:

http://www.dwfearn.com/tvst1.htm

Also, this one may provide some additional food for thought:

http://members.tripod.com/~gabevee/harmonics.html