VSS3 vs SPACE DESIGNER

[Dave12345]

does anyone have experience with both plugs? i absolutely love the vss3 but thinking about switching to logic and dumping the powercore.....


Cheers

[narcoman]

ha!

not even close - VSS3 is very very good. It'll end in tears!

[Kindred]

agreed - the VSS3 is hard to match

every so often I will go back & try a native reverb and it always sounds way too metallic after the VSS3...

[jigsawlogic]

Just wanted to point out that Space Designer is an IR verb, so how it sounds is hugely dependent on your impulses. Comparing it to VSS3 is not exactly apples-to-apples.

Isn't Powercore compatible with Logic?

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

Isn't Powercore compatible with Logic?

it is indeed. i'm using VSS3 in logic and it shines - an incredible reverb

[jigsawlogic]

That should be good news to the OP, as he can keep PowerCore AND use Logic.

MacLeod, on a side note, would you say one verb is inherently better than the other? Just asking since you have experience with both (and hopefully for Space Designer, not just limited to the IRs included with Logic).

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

That should be good news to the OP, as he can keep PowerCore AND use Logic.

MacLeod, on a side note, would you say one verb is inherently better than the other? Just asking since you have experience with both (and hopefully for Space Designer, not just limited to the IRs included with Logic).

well i think for straight music reverb for room simulation VSS3 is hard to beat but for sound design and unusual FX, space designer is a sound designer's dream tool. it's really high quality but you have to make sure you have the right IR. the filter options and volume envelopes are incredibly powerful.

i personally have room for several reverbs as they each do something really well. i love sonnox reverb for the ability to simulate drum decays once they're been previously gated so they end more naturally. the in built eq is amazing.

breverb is another favourite for tails but the lack of good early reflection control makes me go form something else sometimes. native verbs often struggle with the early reflections

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

Just wanted to point out that Space Designer is an IR verb, so how it sounds is hugely dependent on your impulses. Comparing it to VSS3 is not exactly apples-to-apples.

Isn't Powercore compatible with Logic?

indeed so - but it's comparing two reverbs. HOW it's done shouldnt be relevant. What it does and how it sounds are the only factors.

[Phelan Kane]

Dont forget the Sonnox verb.

Dont expect to get a load of presets with the VSS3. TC seem to be more into the VSS4 nowadays which ain't available as plug....

Space Designer is cool for some jobs. The presets in Logic 6 where much better than the presets in Logic 7. There were a few IR of famous venues/outboard. Apple (surprise surprise) changed it all to instrument families (i.e vocal hall etc). Too generic.....

If I was you I'd get a 2nd hand Lexicon PCM 60 or 70. H/W verbs tend to beat S/W. Just print your wet signal to the DAW. There's over 20yrs of RnD in those Lexicon's....

It's all about colours.

[jigsawlogic]

Macleod, thanks so much for the reply! Many of the plugs you mention I've heard of, but have not had the chance to use. I'll definitely put them on my list of "desirable acquirables".

I'd say that Space Designer is the only good reverb that ships with Logic. Since pooling several gigs worth of IRs, I'd also have to say that the realism of instruments in a space seems only limited by the quality of spaces you have to place instruments in. So I don't delegate it to ambient/FX work only, but use it extensively for placing instruments in whatever space best suits the music. And it does a bang-up job...but could equally well do a lousy job. Once again that all depends on the IRs!

Thanks again for giving me a heads-up on some good apps for specific algo-based verbs...the one thing I miss about them is the believable tweakability (hard to change decay on an IR without it becoming an obvious effect).

[jigsawlogic]

Narcoman - I agree completely. Of course the final objective is more important than the path taken to it. But I still wonder how VSS3 preset IRs would sound imported into SD : )

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

Narcoman - I agree completely. Of course the final objective is more important than the path taken to it. But I still wonder how VSS3 preset IRs would sound imported into SD : )

Limited compared to what your used to !!! You'll regret that part of it! Use the POCO in logic... works fine.

Mentioned above where the old lexicon series hardware - great at what they do but these units have been surpassed by the better software 'verbs. As for printing reverbs? Yeah do that sometimes - but less and less as software 'verb is getting better and better - I have Reverb 4000 and system 6000 here - and still they get used less and less.

[Phelan Kane]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Mentioned above where the old lexicon series hardware - great at what they do but these units have been surpassed by the better software 'verbs. As for printing reverbs? Yeah do that sometimes - but less and less as software 'verb is getting better and better - I have Reverb 4000 and system 6000 here - and still they get used less and less.

You checked out the new Bricasti Design - M7. A friend from SSL did a comparison between the eventide eclipse, Bricasti, TC M1 and the Bricasti smoked em.

Dont get me wrong - S/W verbs are great. Check the sonics on small delay times. Thats where they usually struggle....

[Dave12345]

Thanks for the comments and advice guys....

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

Narcoman - I agree completely. Of course the final objective is more important than the path taken to it. But I still wonder how VSS3 preset IRs would sound imported into SD : )

you could import anything into SD but one thing that convolution can't do is simulate modulation and that's what sets reverbs apart in many ways. unless the plugin does something else itself, convolution can't output non-linear characteristics

cheers, grant

[AcoosticZoo]

VSS3 Vs Space Desginer blind test. (Notes: reverb levels are exaggerated)

1.wav

2.wav

Which one do you prefer?

I will send you a private message with a key.

TLM103 > AMEK > Cranesong HEDD 192.
Reverbs Used (in random order):
a wide stereo reverb from VSS3 2.5s no modulation.
a reverb preset I tweaked from Space Designer.

No tricks here to trip anyone up.



Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

[licopin]

Originally Posted by Dave12345

does anyone have experience with both plugs? i absolutely love the vss3 but thinking about switching to logic and dumping the powercore.....
Cheers

Every pro (and non-pro) needs to strike a balance -- sound quality, functionality, workflow, budget, etc... they're all very real factors for every pro and non-pro alike.

Still: Don't do it. Why dump something you "absolutely love"?

20 years ago, people were dumping Minimoogs, thinking that the Akai S1000 was an adequate replacement. 10 years ago, many people were consolidating to TDM and we saw quite a few second-hand Lexicons on the market (I guess we still do, but that's probably a different story).

In hindsight we know that there's nothing wrong with having an analog synth alongside a sampler, or having both outboard and plugins going on at the same time. Ditto here with VSS and Space Designer: they cover different territory, work together just fine, and probably complements each other.

[AcoosticZoo]

Did you hear DUENDE is V3 and it goes 100% Native!!!

Wow, what's the chances of POWERCORE going native

I'm keeping my vss3 and praying that TC electronics will have the power to revisit Native again.

Here's Hoping.

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer.

[dream]

Vss3 kicks serious ass