De-essing Gwen Stefani

[XHipHop]

I heard "Don't Speak" by No Doubt on the radio the other day and they made me think of a session i did recently with a whiny pop punk singer. His esses weren't completely out of control but they could've been cleaned up...but everytime i'd work on them and he'd come in the room he'd say "what'd you do to my vocals? They sound weird". I didn't hear anything "weird" but as soon as i switched them back (without telling him i was switching them back) he'd be like "wow they sound right again..what'd you do?" So i ended up leaving them as they were. They sound great to me, but when comparing them to No Doubt, there are definitely more esses coming through in the mix.

So i'm wondering...what is the technique that you would use (or was used) to tackle some crazy esses like in the chorus of Don't Speak. I want to learn to be the master at transparently cleaning up these things...

Thanks for your thoughts, slutz.

[pan]

There exist several Threads on this topic.

IIRC the most common conclusion was: Automation!

[largeunit]

Just zoom in really close and turn down the volume in those spots.

[XHipHop]

Originally Posted by pan

There exist several Threads on this topic.

IIRC the most common conclusion was: Automation!

So the automation would come pre-compressor, correct?

[toolskid]

you can manually de-ess in tools, just duck the sibilance with volume automation

[Jules]

I had the pleasure of - playing back a Tina Turner 'hand de-essed' session on my PT / ProControl rig...

The lead vocal fader went CRAZY! Slamming up and down!

Must have been at least an hours work for the editor!

[wwittman]

Mostly I just think "De-Essing Gwen Stefani" is a great name for a reality TV show

[robmix]

You said that you were trying to work on them, what exactly were you doing ? I'm still using the DBX 902, I've tried every plug-in out there but they all sound very strange to me. I'll hit the 902 pre-compressor, then automate anything that's still out of control.

[XHipHop]

Originally Posted by robmix

You said that you were trying to work on them, what exactly were you doing ? I'm still using the DBX 902, I've tried every plug-in out there but they all sound very strange to me. I'll hit the 902 pre-compressor, then automate anything that's still out of control.

I tried 3 different de-essing plugins and then tried notching out annoying frequencies with tight eq. Everytime the singer hated it. I had to let everything through because those were the only tools I had and we didn't have the time when mixing to automate everything. It just wasn't an option on their budget.

They never once complained about it and it still sounds fine...I just wanted to work on my technique for when it doesn't sound fine.

I've been planning on getting a dbx rack someday, by the way.

[JTR]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

So the automation would come pre-compressor, correct?

not usually

compressor is plugin insert

fader auto is last thing in chain, unless your subbing out to another fader

some folks re-draw waveform on the nasty spikes; that wouldn't be technically automation, but it would be pre-compressor

your compressor will tend to bring out sibilence if used aggressively

so some folks will de-ess before compressing

"feathering" will help too;
use a couple of more gentle de-essers that achieve the goal, without the unwanted side-effects

don't try and kill all the sibilence with a single de-esser; that's just going to give the singer a lisp

[jbuntz]

It would be nice if there was a "detect ess-es" function. I suppose you could do a creative combination of multing, eqing and decting silence to do a half-automated but editable ess detection/reduction.

[XHipHop]

"Don't Speak. I know just what you're saying. So please stop explaining. Don't tell me cause it hurts".

That's a lot of esses in that chorus. Just wanted to type it out for anyone that isn't familiar with that song.

[max cooper]

I was dealing with this a couple of weeks ago; I ended up automating the 'N' series URS graphic to cut as much as possible; then I brought the track up on another fader and automated that to get rid of the rest.

If I had tracked it, I would have used the 'D-S' section on an API 525. It doesn't take out a lot of 'ess' but it's a good start. IMO more helpful that a de-esser that takes too much out.

[pan]

not to mention the "T"s ...

Mostly I just think "De-Essing Gwen Stefani" is a great name for a reality TV show

Something like that could have saved HitFactory from bancuptcy.

[Drumsound]

I like the old school trick the best. Tape a pencil to the mic across the diaphragm. It's basicaly a difuser. It works better for me that the Manley VB de-esser, because of the switched frequencies on the Manley.

[84K]

The Pendulum Audio Quartet has the best damn desser there is.

[Stargazer]

Inthtead of de-ething, tell the lyricitht to jutht thimply rewrite the lyricth...

[T_R_S]

Manual Eq automation is still the best but takes the longest (8 hrs/track)
If there is not buget Waves LMB works great.

[Lawrence]

The Waves Ren De-Esser works great. It has enough settings and options to do invisible deessing that sounds pretty good. When set correctly for the source the operation is simply great. I haven't tried the pencil trick yet.

One good trick is to place a deesser in the send chain before the reverb input. That one you can squash more and it keeps the verb from splashing on the esses.

Lawrence

[Offender]

De-essing might not have even been the right move. Your vocalist might have wanted his vocal to sound exactly how he sung it to achieve a certain effect.

If your not a singer yourself, you might not appreciate the sound of a natural voice. You might be looking at his vocal in technical terms rather than actually 'listening' to how your de-essing effects the way vocalists comes across.

De-essing can almost sonically change the shape of a singers mouth. It can give them a horrible lisp if used abusively. Not too mention..it can give the vocal a low quality sound if the higher frequencys squashed too much

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

Inthtead of de-ething, tell the lyricitht to jutht thimply rewrite the lyricth...

Everytime I look at this (and your avatar) I just start laughing again. So hard in fact, I start crying...

Please remove this post.

Oh, and on the de-essing thing: I can usually do some x-fades pretty quickly... That and auto works. I've yet to find anything better. Other than Stargazer's suggestion, of course!

[dreamaudio]

thumbsup automating volume for de-essing is a pain in the noggin...and the "normal" listeners won't notice...Shit if they pay you 8hrs a track to do it fawkya, do it...But seriously...de-essing is ez..jus don't overdo it..watch ur reverbs/delay send EQ's...

[pan]

Originally Posted by dreamaudio

..watch ur reverbs/delay send EQ's...

I sometimes find deessing the Reverb-send necessary.

n

[dreamaudio]

Originally Posted by pan

I sometimes find deessing the Reverb-send necessary.

n

Exactly...I do this from time to time also.

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by wwittman

Mostly I just think "De-Essing Gwen Stefani" is a great name for a reality TV show

Yea, when I think of things to do with Gwen Stefani de-essing is pretty far down on the list...

[matt f]

Here's one for you guys. Seems intense but no more than automating sibilance!

1) In your DAW bus 2 tracks to whatever chain you have for your vocal. One with the vocal and the other with any sibilance removed from the main vocal track pasted onto it.

2) Use volume, eq, de-essing to manipulate the sibilance track to taste!

Helps to keep the air around the vocal!!!

Try it and let me know your thoughts

[sysexguy]

...and how about that finger squeak halfway through the guitar solo?????

Other than that, I really love that song (granted that the album doesn't have the big budget sound of later records)

back on topic, when de-essing, bear in mind that in mastering there will likely be a whole bunch more air squished in which will make both the "esses" and the chosen de-esser's artifacts more prominent. With Gwen Stefani, unde-essing might be more fun!

Andy

[bunnerabb]

I've spent a lot of time de-essing sibilants, one sibilant at a time in vocal tracks.

Sometimes ya gotta.

[swankdoc]

I'm glad nobody de-essed Joe Williams

[Stick]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Manual Eq automation is still the best but takes the longest (8 hrs/track)
If there is not buget Waves LMB works great.

For 1 vocal? I'm curious about this... can you explain your process for it?

When I do manual Ess automation, it's like 10 or 15 minutes... but clearly we're doing different things. But I've heard of crazy EQ automation (the usual example is Shania), and I'd like to understand what you're EQing and and what the ideal is you're after. Maybe I'll give it a try.

I usually use the original Waves De-Esser, or C4 on occasion.