I Have 10k For Overdub Studio

[lpettipoole]

My band is piecing together a project studio. I had a little home studio before we got signed, but it was all low end stuff that I got rid of to buy guitars and synths. I'm kind of out of the loop as to what gear is hot right now.

To save money we are going to hybridize our approach. Important things that require a nice room will be done at a proper studio. Drums, piano, etc. Overdubs will be mostly done with this gear at our practice space, and then back to the studio to mix.

The room's purpose is to: a) to record/arrange demos of new songs, and b) to serve as an overdub room for guitars/keys/vox/etc.

I have 10k to work with. Main focuses will be the overdubs and vox, some drums and mixing will have to be done for demo purposes. The sound we go for is in the vain of the Flaming Lips, Wilco or Clinic...vintage vibe, color, not necessarily accurate sound, but musical and harmonically rich. I think I want a mixture of 'lifetime' pieces and some of the better mid-grade stuff just to have some variety. We love Dave Fridmann and Jon Brion. Nigel Godrich is a hero. Mark Ronson has cornered those 60s tones well.

Here is what we have at the moment:
Digi002
Q6600 3GB RAM with PT LE 7.4 on XP
Various boring plugins
M Audio BX8s
Safe Sound P1 preamp
MXL V69me
SM7 (vox are covered with this)
Tascam M320B (20 channel board from the 80's, preamps beat the Digi)

From what I've been reading, it seems the 500 series format has exploded lately, that might get us into a few different flavors of things for less dough. So many companies have thrown their hats into the ring it's impossible to know what to get. I do want an 1176 or something similar for some nasty compression. A ribbon or two? Some cool dynamics? Old weird crap that totally mangles signals?

Thanks for the expertise.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by lpettipoole

My band is piecing together a project studio. I had a little home studio before we got signed, but it was all low end stuff that I got rid of to buy guitars and synths. I'm kind of out of the loop as to what gear is hot right now.

To save money we are going to hybridize our approach. Important things that require a nice room will be done at a proper studio. Drums, piano, etc. Overdubs will be mostly done with this gear at our practice space, and then back to the studio to mix.

The room's purpose is to: a) to record/arrange demos of new songs, and b) to serve as an overdub room for guitars/keys/vox/etc.

Sounds like a well thought out plan. Definitely good luck with it.

Originally Posted by lpettipoole

I have 10k to work with. Main focuses will be the overdubs and vox, some drums and mixing will have to be done for demo purposes. The sound we go for is in the vain of the Flaming Lips, Wilco or Clinic...vintage vibe, color, not necessarily accurate sound, but musical and harmonically rich. I think I want a mixture of 'lifetime' pieces and some of the better mid-grade stuff just to have some variety. We love Dave Fridmann and Jon Brion. Nigel Godrich is a hero. Mark Ronson has cornered those 60s tones well.

All talented and original musicians/producer/engineers.

The two things they all have in common is that they all roll their own way and they like to use tape.

Originally Posted by lpettipoole

Here is what we have at the moment:
Digi002
Q6600 3GB RAM with PT LE 7.4 on XP
Various boring plugins
M Audio BX8s
Safe Sound P1 preamp
MXL V69me
SM7 (vox are covered with this)
Tascam M320B (20 channel board from the 80's, preamps beat the Digi)

Sell it all...or better yet for good karma give it all away. Each piece to someone who is starting out, poor and talented or anyone deserving or just wanting.

The giving deed will come back to you ten fold.

Plus i hate looking in the GS classifeds at some ad that starts out "Cleaning out the closet".

I think instead of trying to rob people for pennies just give the stuff away especially if its just sitting in your closet not being used. You know charity and goodwill stuff. Even if you trade it for a favor you'll get something out of it.

Originally Posted by lpettipoole

From what I've been reading, it seems the 500 series format has exploded lately, that might get us into a few different flavors of things for less dough. So many companies have thrown their hats into the ring it's impossible to know what to get. I do want an 1176 or something similar for some nasty compression. A ribbon or two? Some cool dynamics? Old weird crap that totally mangles signals?

Thanks for the expertise.

I think since the most important thing is that you are doing the vocals at home your focus should be totally around getting the best vocal takes you can period. Everything else is just a wash. If you end up buying just one mic pre but it makes you sound like god than in the end when you sell out your shows/Itunes downloads its really all that matters. You will make some more money which you can put towards the next project and buy more stuff. Don't fall for the GAS hype!!! It only leads to unnecessary debts and credit card bills!!

Also in your $10K budget set aside a portion for a tracking engineer. Again its your vocals and you can't mess around and hope some mixing guy saves your ass at the last minute.

My 2 pennies.

[kojak]

Keep the computer and the SM7, consider selling/gifting the rest...if it's mostly overdubs (ie. 4 tracks or less at a time), spend the dough getting 2-4 really nice channels (API and the like), nice AD conversion (apogee, etc), and half decent monitors (If you're not mixing there, you don't need to go too overboard with monitors, but get something decent, ie. JBL/Roland/higher end KRK/Blue Sky/Genelec).

Also if you're doing bass or keys, a higher end DI box or two is always a good investment...I'm a big fan of JDI stuff.

Once you have nice channels, you'll want some nice mics to plug into em, so beyond the obvious sm57/beta 52 sort of stuff, consider maybe an RE20, cause they're nice on bass cabs, kick drums, as well as vocals...AKG 414s are of course a standby for acoustic guitars, drum overheads, vocals, piano, etc. etc...if you've got the budget obviously a higher end vocal mic is never a bad idea...depending on your taste, that's a whole universe of sounds (Rode/Peluso/AKG/Neumann, the list goes on forever.)

Anyway best of luck with the hunt...

[lpettipoole]

Is the safe sound really worth giving away...that was almost 900 bucks! Good stuff to keep in mind though, guys. I'll keep hunting the archives for info on the specific pieces.

[ebot9000]

Carve out a couple Gs to buy some sound conditioning material to make the room sound good. More important than the gear, as far as getting "studio quality" sounds. Don't just hang blankets, get some good sound absorbers. Especially important for drums and vocals, both of which you want to record.

Then focus on getting 4-6 channels of pres/convertors and the mics to complement. This is all VERY doable on 10k, especially if you sell the lower end stuff and add a few bucks to your budget. With proper sound conditioning and 6 channels you'll be able to get very nice studio-quality recordings, and some of your "demos" will have permanently usable tracks.

Also consider renting mics for vocals. You can often rent super expensive mics for less than a hundred dollars a day – much cheaper than going into a studio for a day. If you have good quality gear, the right mic AND a set of good gobos to get a tight sound you can really take your time and get the best vocal takes in a relaxed atmosphere.

congrats, what an awesome opportunity!

[lpettipoole]

I have to say I didn't even think about gobos. If there's something DIY that will save me a bunch of scratch I'm totally able to make that happen. Anybody go this route?

All the advice here has been great as far as the amount of stuff to get, but if anyone has more specific suggestions as far as pres and comps I'd appreciate it. I want variety and color mostly, which kinda led me to think of going the 500 route.

[RCM - Ronan]

Its not very slutty of me to say, but I would not get tied up in having lots of different pres, find a flavor you like and get to making a record.

An API 3124 would give you some of that sound you were looking for. 4 channels for a bit over $2000.

A Distressor is a pretty great choice for "nasty compression" An 1176 has a cool sound, but a Distressor might be more flexible.

A Shure KSM32 is a great overall condenser to have around. You can stick it in front of almost anything and get a cool sound.

Shure SM57 for the same reason above.

Two channels of Good A/D conversion.

Beyond that if you are looking for the vibe of the producers you are talking about, I would think pretty seriously on spending the extra money on cool amps, FX pedals, keyboards and guitars over different colors of pres, comps, converters etc. A cool vintage tube amp will get you waaaaay more vibe than the difference between two different high end converters.

[lpettipoole]

Originally Posted by rcm

Beyond that if you are looking for the vibe of the producers you are talking about, I would think pretty seriously on spending the extra money on cool amps, FX pedals, keyboards and guitars over different colors of pres, comps, converters etc. A cool vintage tube amp will get you waaaaay more vibe than the difference between two different high end converters.

Definitely got the gear covered...our practice space is brimming with crazy stuff.

I will look into the API stuff, thanks

[Birdi]

Originally Posted by rcm

Its not very slutty of me to say, but I would not get tied up in having lots of different pres, find a flavor you like and get to making a record.

An API 3124 would give you some of that sound you were looking for. 4 channels for a bit over $2000.

A Distressor is a pretty great choice for "nasty compression" An 1176 has a cool sound, but a Distressor might be more flexible.

A Shure KSM32 is a great overall condenser to have around. You can stick it in front of almost anything and get a cool sound.

Shure SM57 for the same reason above.

Two channels of Good A/D conversion.
.

I'm thinking along the same lines....but would suggest pairs of a couple of things.

a pair of condensers, could be small diaphram, ie KM184, or the re-issued AKG 451.

a stereo distressor.

In terms of pre's , like rmc, I don't think it's essential to have lots of flavors to start with. I recently helped a guy set up buzz pre's and comps in the 500 series format. Sounded really good. If you go 500 series there seems to be good stuff to pick from. (I have only hear the buzz in that format).

I'm thinking that when you choose your large diaphram condenser it would be worth trying a few out on the the lead singers voice, and choose the one that sounds the best on him/her. What ever mic you choose will still be fine on other stuff.

And... if you feel you need more flavors during tracking, you can always hire pre's and mics for a few days. You get the added advantage of trying out a range of quality gear and finding out what you like.

B

[warhead]

Originally Posted by lpettipoole

Is the safe sound really worth giving away...that was almost 900 bucks!

Considering it's about the easiest to setup and use vocal compressor around (combined with the fact that it'll stay out of the way sonically) in my biased opinion I'd say this is not very good advice. As a preamp, it's certainly in the clean camp and can hang with many console preamps etc. As a compressor / expander / limiter though, I find them a must have.

It's not just a preamp though.

Seems like it is time to focus on microphones, monitors and room treatment. If you're going to be mixing inside of PT for demo / songwriting purposes, not much sense in buying tons of outboard or the 500 series for that matter, in my opinion.

Sounds like you can get away with fairly minimal drum mic'ing, I would pick up a pair of high quality large condensors and a ribbon mic for room / front of kit. None of these mics have to cost more than a few hundred $$$ to deliver an excellent sound for what you're doing.

War

[Ol' Betsey]

This is what I'd do...

(These seem to be used/street prices in the US but don't hold me to my word...)

$500 - DIY Absorbers: This should build 10 or so. The more the better...
$2100 - Apogee Rosetta 800: 8 channels of great conversion via ADAT into PT.
$2100 - API 3124: 4 channels of great pre-amp (Drums, Guitars, Vocals, Bass etc)
$1500 - Purple MC77: I love 1176's on everything and this is just a great compressor.
$3500 - 2 x SDC (Beyer, Josephson, OktavaMod), 1 x Good Ribbon (Coles, AEA, Royer), 1 x Upper Mid Level LDC (Pearlman, Peluso, Bock)

This obviously doesn't include stands, leads and staples like 57's etc.

I haven't heard the M-Audio's but I reckon you can get by with your monitors if you know/learn them and your room isn't messing with your perspective too much.

As you'll notice, this gear isn't very 'colored' but they are great utilitarian tools that should see you through not only tracking for your album but also getting great quality full-band sounds into your computer for other things. And when say other things I mean stuff you can do yourself like bonus material for Tour CD's, online exclusives etc.

Good luck and have fun!

R.