Recording The acoustic Guitar!...

[Gordon -10]

I need to get a good acoustic sound In my appartment.
The room acoustics are preaty band, and if I use a highquality condencer mic, the acuistic sounds good, but theres also tons of room noise. So im planing on getting an acoustic with a good pickup, D.i. that through a U5, pluss us a sm57 near the neck going through a liquidchannel, and maybe panning the signals.

Question 1
Is it better to get a Guitar with a built in pick up, or use the one I own and purchase on of those sound hole things.

And Question 2
Will this sound good!?? and if not, doses anybody have better ideas?

Thanks.

[wallace]

i'd get a good acoustic guitar that sounds good first. if you move to a better room down the road, you'll still be set. i have martin with a pezio strip in the bridge, which sounds ok. I don't really like it for recording, although I recenly demo'ed a few things really quickly and used the DI through my UA 2-610 and with the high cranked and the low cut... it actually didn't sound that bad. I'd consider mixing that sound with a mic.

[Brandino221]

I have a small idea. First off strings can make a difference. Depending what kind of tone you would like to get from them. Elixir strings are great and can make a bad guitar sound better and brighter. Another great string is DR (phosphor bronze for a darker sound). Another would be Martin strings. I would try all 3 brands and you will see a diference from all of them. This will help when choosing a tone for the song. You can also record one track with one brand and the other with another brand or material from the same brand. This will help the guitars sit in the mix better with any guitars recorded that way.
My taste is not to go direct. however, that does not mean I would never do it if I felt the song called for it. Or even record mic and di (each having their own track from the same performance). Audio Technica makes a nice mic that is not very expensive +has a good rep for that app. AT 4041 or a 4051a. great mics I have both of them.
Hope that helped.

peace

[AdAudioInc]

Try using blankets / pillows / boxes / fluffy chairs and anything else you can find to make the space around the guitar sound smaller - and stick with the condenser.

[Brandino221]

You can also make homemade baffles (that look nice).

[Gordon -10]

Thanks guys, not the answers I was looking for. I was hoping for a "yeah, that would sound amazing!" Ha, but unfortuanatly the general consences seems to be, fix the room and use a condencer. I own an At4041, but fixing the room is a much larger problem. Ive been told about Auralex Max-wall for this sort of solution... does anybody have any experience with it, or opnions? It seems like I would still have alot or room noise.

[kittonian]

You might want to checkout vocalbooth.com and get something like a 4x6 room from them. It's not a cheap solution but you can stick amps in there as well as do acoustic guitars and vocals. Basically it's an all around great solution and every studio should have some sort of sound controlled vocal booth of some sort. We have one here and I love it.

As far as the Auralex Max-Wall solution goes, that's definitely an option for you as well (and a lot less costly). It won't provde nearly the same effect as a full vocal booth but it does give you some separation and allow you to move things around as you desire. Couldn't hurt to start with that if the vocal booth idea is a bit out of your price range (or what you would want to spend).

[dach]

If it's mostly room sound (reflections) you're having problems with, find a way to temporarily hang some blankets or something to minimize the worst of the reflections that are finding their way to the mic. See if that is acceptable. You can probably make some decent recordings as long as you are close micing the gtr. If you are trying to pull the mic back several feet from the gtr, you will probably have a mess.

If you have extraneous noise from the street, neighbors, hvac, etc....you're pretty much screwed so go with a DI and the 57 OR record at 4:00am. I personally hate most DI'd AC guitar unless it is used sparingly.

In your situation all is not lost. There's nothing wrong with using a dynamic mic on your guitar. You may want to bring it up the neck some though.... If you are layering different parts, using different mics for different parts can be very nice. Also, if you're in a small room, vary the positioning of a condenser on the gtr. Try everywhere from 1" off the 3rd fret to above, below and behind your guitar. Once you get used to doing this, you will be able to get very diffrent timbres from your guitar while minimizing the effect of the room. You will also be learning some important lessons while doing so.

I personally feel your needs would be MUCH BETTER SERVED by using a different preamp. I'm not going to bash the preamp you have " the LC" but that would be close to the bottom of my list for recording AC gtr....maybe it's pretty cool for other stuff, but personally I wouldn't go there for AC gtr..... think Sytek for clean or API for punch... both are very good and inexpensive compared to many others...... BTW, get a good set of cans.... good luck... we've all been there...
Chuck

[PRobb]

Good advice about the packing blankets.
Also, place the mic and then, with the phones on, move around until the sound in the phones comes together. And if the noise is causing you to mic very close, you may be having a problem with lo freq buildup due to the proximity effect. In that case, roll off a few dB @100.

[Brandino221]

Originally Posted by PRobb

Good advice about the packing blankets.
Also, place the mic and then, with the phones on, move around until the sound in the phones comes together. And if the noise is causing you to mic very close, you may be having a problem with lo freq buildup due to the proximity effect. In that case, roll off a few dB @100.

yes, and don't forget to turn off your AC. That can make LOTS of noise and low end rumble.

Peace

[zemlin]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

yes, and don't forget to turn off your AC.

and the 'fridge, and the phone, and your watch with the chime on the hour, and your PDA that's going to remind you to clean the cat box .... ....

I use moving pads / packing blankets / furniture pads - whatever you want to call them. I set them up in a big 90 degree "V". Set yourself as far into the "V" as you can go and still have room to play - then set the mic position and you'll be all set.

That will clean up the sound a LOT with minimal expense and effort.

I support my pads on frames made from PVC fittings, & 1/2" conduit. I glued short pieces (1 1/4" long) of Sched 10 1/2" PVC pipe on the ends of the conduit so they lock into the fittings.

They cost VERY LITTLE to make, go up fast, and store in very little space. Here's a picture of a frame - this one is just for the photo and built up from all short tubes. I usually make the frame 6' tall using 3' lengths of conduit.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I need to get a good acoustic sound In my appartment.
The room acoustics are preaty band, and if I use a highquality condencer mic, the acuistic sounds good, but theres also tons of room noise. So im planing on getting an acoustic with a good pickup, D.i. that through a U5, pluss us a sm57 near the neck going through a liquidchannel, and maybe panning the signals.

Question 1
Is it better to get a Guitar with a built in pick up, or use the one I own and purchase on of those sound hole things.

And Question 2
Will this sound good!?? and if not, doses anybody have better ideas?

With a 'bad' room and plenty of outside noise, it will be really hard to get a good acoustic sound.
I would absolutely try to keep things simple, unless you're very experienced with these techniques, multi-micing or DI/mic combos probably will be disastrous. Phase shift/cancellation, mid-buildup, etc.
IMO, it would be much better to use a single 57, work hard to find the right position of the mic (and position of the player/guitar in the room, facing a wall might help) You need plenty of gain from the preamp for the 57 though.....
If you need say more attack, try a heavier pick (if it's a picked guitar part).
Compression absolutely won't help because it will bring out more of the room.

The floor and its reflection are tremendously important, personally I really hate carpet floors for acoustic guitar. Get a decent sized piece of wood (even plywood might do) and use this a sort of a 'guitar riser'. If your apartement's got a low ceiling, try some kind of absorption, maybe mainly above the playing area.
Reflective floor and absorbing ceiling are the way to go in small rooms. If there's still too much mud or not enough power, try some kind of gobo.

Good luck

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[Brandino221]

[quote=zemlin]and the 'fridge, and the phone, and your watch with the chime on the hour, and your PDA that's going to remind you to clean the cat box .... ....

LOL! Yea, and the power to ur house (to kill any electrical noise).

[Gordon -10]

Originally Posted by kittonian

You might want to checkout vocalbooth.com and get something like a 4x6 room from them.

Thanks for all the advice. I really like the idea of the booth, going to check that out. I guess this is sort of off topic but will I be able to track vocals in my apartment? I live in the basement and the only neibours I have to deal with are above me. Seems like a lot of money to drop if the only solution is a clean acoustic track. I've been to the site but it would be good to get a customers opinion.

[Drumsound]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Acoustic guitar pick-ups are a necessary evil of the stage!

[MichaelT]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

The floor and its reflection are tremendously important, personally I really hate carpet floors for acoustic guitar. Get a decent sized piece of wood (even plywood might do) and use this a sort of a 'guitar riser'. If your apartement's got a low ceiling, try some kind of absorption, maybe mainly above the playing area.
Reflective floor and absorbing ceiling are the way to go in small rooms. If there's still too much mud or not enough power, try some kind of gobo.

This thread is not from too long ago and I was intrigued by something as simple as above. Does anyone else lay a piece of wood down when recording acoustic in an otherwise carpeted room? I was looking at Home Depot today. If it's worth getting, should I go with simple plywood, or something like oak, rosewood, etc.? Should it have finishing or no? Again, I'm basically wondering if other people do this and if the type of wood matters. Thanks!

-Mike

[Ted Nightshade]

Even in that crummy room, there is an exact place to place the soundboard of the guitar, and an exact direction to point the soundboard at, that will sound best. Same with the mic. So put in some time and find that. The good news is that the guitar is pretty directional and your body will block the sound coming right out of the back, so having your back up against the wall can work, unlike with many less directional instruments. When you find the right place to put the instrument, the room sound will begin to be your friend instead of your bitter enemy!

Forget the DI.

A figure 8 mic will allow you to lose all the floor ceiling and wall reflections along the nice big donut shaped null. Some healthy absorbtion behind the fig. 8 mic will help turn it into a very, very directional "ultra-cardioid" or some such thing. This is a good bet for getting a positive balance of direct radiation from the guitar and some but not too much healthy room sound. For healthy room sound, be sure to address the placement issues, for guitar and mic, both!

[MichaelT]

Just wanted to report back to anyone interested that I got some plywood to lay down on the carpet in my bedroom/"live room". Initial impressions were very positive! I haven't had too much time to expirement but my acoustic sounds noticeably better just playing it in the room. I definitely would recommend something this simple and cheap to anyone interested in bumping up the quality of their bedroom acoustic recordings.

-Mike

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by MichaelT

Just wanted to report back to anyone interested that I got some plywood to lay down on the carpet in my bedroom/"live room". Initial impressions were very positive! I haven't had too much time to expirement but my acoustic sounds noticeably better just playing it in the room. I definitely would recommend something this simple and cheap to anyone interested in bumping up the quality of their bedroom acoustic recordings.-Mike

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[andy_simpson]

The pick is pretty important too! Thick pick for meat, with less 'plick plick' noise - thin pick for nasty thin tone and alot of 'plicky plick'. You can't get rid of the plicky plick noise with eq! (without killing the tone).

Also, as the others have said, forget the DI, never sounds good.

A '57 pointed towards the soundhole (at 45 degrees) nice and close is hard to go wrong, and you won't hear the room AT ALL. Also, if this is a hard-strummed part it can be worth prizing the grill out of the housing of the '57 - this is where the ~6k peak comes from. Fiddly but worth it for accoustic guitar and drum overheads.

Also the same thing for vocals in a shitty room.....I would bet a straight '57 sounds better than a condensor in there.

Andy