So what you guys do for kick drums?

Robert Randolph · 24th April 2005, 10:14 PM

Been working in a room Im not used to and Im having the worst time getting a decent kick sound....

What do you guys do? I need some inspiration, ive tried everything I can think of... im worn out after 4 hours of that garbage. Continually terrible sound despite everything (moving the kit around 5 head changes, different kick drums, different mics, blankets, different muffling, kick tunnel etc...).

This is just killin me and costing the client money. sample replacing isnt an option because the drummer's a stubborn ass. Throw out some ideas guys and gals.

Alexi · 24th April 2005, 10:22 PM

hi there,

powerstroke 3, a little bit of dampening (pillow), drumhead tuned veeeeeeeeeeery loose.

cheers

max cooper · 24th April 2005, 10:31 PM

I worked with a drummer who had a nice early '70's Ludwig kit...except for the kick drum. Was completely un-happening in any room. Later he told me he found a matching replacement...exact in every way except that it sounded good.

not_so_new · 24th April 2005, 10:36 PM

Quote:

This is just killin me and costing the client money. sample replacing isnt an option because the drummer's a stubborn ass.

You know I hate to say this and I am really really trying to not sound like an a$$hole when I do but....

Getting a good kick sound without sound replacing was possible for decades, knowing how to do that is part of our jobs yes? I guess I am saying that this is a prime example of relying on technology for the easy way out. Now that you are not able to take the easy answer it is time to get your chops together....

Again not trying to point the finger at you or anything but this a classic example of how the art of recording is being lost.

Anyway, over and over it is said and it is true, start with the source. If it sounds right in the room you are much better off.

How does it sound in the room?? If it sounds good in one place in the room the plop a mic there and combine it with everything else.

Also the drummer makes a difference. You can only control the tone of the drums with tuning and you have very little control of the drummer at all so....

Do you have a mic out of phase?? Overheads strange maybe??

Bad cable on the kick mic??

What mic are you using on the kick??

Where are you placing the mic?? Try moving it out a bit from the kit, I like to start with the mic just outside of the front head hole if I am only using one mic.

Did you try more than one mic, one close one out a bit and phase aligning them later??

What mic pre??

Are you sure of your monitors??

How is the front head tuned??

All kinds of things go into this answer, I woul try a few things above to see if they help.

Good luck and consider it a cool learning experience maybe.

Robert Randolph · 24th April 2005, 10:55 PM

*sigh* I dont need a course, I was asking how everyone else does it. Ive done this 1000 times over but today it just aint happenin. Looking for inspiration.

thanks for the idea though, trying not to be offended.

Farview · 24th April 2005, 10:59 PM

What doesn't sound right about it? Can you describe the ruckus, sir?

Robert Randolph · 24th April 2005, 11:01 PM

Dont want anyone fixing the problem for me... I just wanna know how things other people do.. im quite stubborn, if there's a problem Ill fix it myself, just need some inspiration

toledo3 · 24th April 2005, 11:05 PM

hmmmm....What sound are you going for.....do you actually know, or is it one of those "we'll know it when we hear it"? That could be a big part of the problem.

There are about a million ways of approaching it, and they are all perfect SOMETIMES. Are you listening to this solo-ed or something....or is there other instrumentation so you can at least get a perspective?

One thing I see alot of people miss out on.... try the beater side, but mic very close to the outer edge, for more bass response. That tends to work well in bad rooms. Also, even if the room isn't that great, you should be able to get a decent tone inside the kick.....

What are some of the combinations you are using, and what are you finding lacking?

toledo3 · 24th April 2005, 11:09 PM

Why would you be offended at people taking their time to reply to a pretty basic question? If you are trying to get inspiration, that is one thing, but the original post had a more "up shit creek without a paddle" vibe to it. Best of luck!

Farview · 24th April 2005, 11:12 PM

I take a d112, put it in the kick aimed at the beater. As close as I can get to the head. Take a Beta 52 and put it in the hole in the front head (small hole in the head) so that just the grill is inside the head.
The batter head is tuned slack. The tention on the head comes from the lugs on the left and right. The top and bottom ones should have just enough tension to not rattle.
The front head should be tuned to the note you want the drum to speak. If it is too ringy (if the note is too long, [if you have a

y sound your head is too tight or too old]) take a dish towel and just drape it in the hole so half is inside and half is outside.

Send the D112 into a clean preamp, send the the B52 to a preamp that gets a little fuzzy on the low end when you push it. (I use an Amek 9098)

Depending on the depth of the kick, you might have to line up the tracks in your daw.

Robert Randolph · 24th April 2005, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toledo3

Why would you be offended at people taking their time to reply to a pretty basic question? If you are trying to get inspiration, that is one thing, but the original post had a more "up shit creek without a paddle" vibe to it. Best of luck!

Im terrible at wording my posts. hoping Ive clarified my intention a bit better... Im really no good with this internet forum thing, it's so different than face to face communication.

joeq · 24th April 2005, 11:35 PM

personally, my customary kick drum setup is just an Evans EQ 3 carefully tuned with a small blanket inside. ATM-25 in the hole, U195 in "Fat" in front. Hard beater hitting bare head. pretty straightforward, I guess.

Throwing out a bunch of different stuff here, maybe something will hit.

have you tried messing with the pedal? - change beaters? I have an old red-apple oak beater that sometimes saves the day when my modern specially shaped hi-tech beaters are not cutting through.

There are those badges, patches and the old taping a quarter to the strike point. Or maybe go in the other direction - felt beater, leather patch on the skin.

There are those flappy things- I forget the brand- which lift off the head at the moment of contact and then drop back down. Shredded plastic bag confetti inside the drum does something similar.

take the drum out of the 'drum corner' or booth or whatever and drag it around to different places in the room until the kick sounds good. Even a small room will have better and worse spots. Set up the drums there and if the band is tracking together put the guitars in the booths.

Hmmmm you called the drummer "stubborn" and you called yourself "stubborn"! Don't let the drummer's personality influence your perception of the kick sound and vice versa.

SoSueMe · 24th April 2005, 11:40 PM

What kind of music?? Is the drummer consistant in volume (on the kick)? Is he playing basic (non-busy) rhythms? What's the room like? Is the kick double-headed? Does the front head have a cutout, if applicable? What kind of pedal is he using? Felt/Wood? What kind of heads on the kick (exactly)? What are you imagining, if anything? What mic(s) on the kick?

Also, does he play "heel-to-toe?" Does he let the head ring out after striking the head, or does the batter stay in contact with the head?

Rick Sutton · 24th April 2005, 11:50 PM

A couple of shots in the dark without hearing the drum:
After it's tuned to get the best low end response from it ,without loose flapping,
use a standard bed pillow, lay it in the bottom of the drum just touching the beater head. Get a common red brick or stone of equal weight and put it on the pillow to hold it in place and add weight to the kick. (I have a special brick that I've used for years...no shit, I kid you not. This step is important) Cut a piece of t-shirt about 4-5 inches square and tape it onto the inside of the beater head about one inch above the contact area. It is taped only on the top edge so when the beater hits the head the fabric flies away from the head and returns to damp the head.
Use a 421 inside , fet 47 outside, API pres and stir in some eq ( boost 60, dip 300, boost 2k). Tighten with a Urei LA22, mix to taste and serve hot. And as mentioned earlier flip every phase switch on the drum set in every combo and listen carefully for best solidity for kick and snare. If that doesn't work get another kick drum and repeat.

Zarathustra · 25th April 2005, 12:54 AM

The Ol' ribbon outside the kick can almost never fail to bring a smile.. I like the Royer 121 into an API 312, Senneheiser 421 inside for attack... "ker-THUMP"

Z

not_so_new · 25th April 2005, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigmaDeltaAudio

Im terrible at wording my posts. hoping Ive clarified my intention a bit better... Im really no good with this internet forum thing, it's so different than face to face communication.

It's all cool man.. been there...

What are you looking for in the inspiration department?? Are you looking for some other kick sounds to give you ideas or are you looking for stories from others about running into this before?

Sorry if the posts about are not what you are looking for just give us a bit of an idea how we can help (recording can be frustrating as hell some times).

Bang · 25th April 2005, 02:33 AM

I use the aquarian kick pack with the one ply beater head.. two ply is too dead... don't use a kick pad.. turn the beater so its on the HARD site, felt beaters don't have the KNOCK at least for me. I use an Audix D-6 on the inside and then I augment it with a sample I made using a D-6 and D112 in the drum, an SM 57 on the beater side of the drum, and a FET 47 on the outside of the drum. all going to a Neve 1081 and a dbx 160VU.

I'd say find a nice sample and add in a "Soundreplacer" track and add it in and just don't tell him about it. As long as it sounds good why the f should he care?

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

alphajerk · 25th April 2005, 02:52 AM

legal inspiration?

Robert Randolph · 25th April 2005, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not_so_new

It's all cool man.. been there...

What are you looking for in the inspiration department?? Are you looking for some other kick sounds to give you ideas or are you looking for stories from others about running into this before?

Sorry if the posts about are not what you are looking for just give us a bit of an idea how we can help (recording can be frustrating as hell some times).

Yeah. I just wanted to see what other people do on a regular basis.

Im just having one of those mental blocks, kinda like when as a musician you get stuck writing a song so you turn on a random radio station or new style of music to get some ideas.

maxim · 25th April 2005, 04:05 AM

make sure the drum is in the right spot in the room

try building a tunnel over the kick, so you can compress the shit out of it later

a bit of eq won't hurt either

make sure the phase is right

if all else fails, replace with either your favourite sample or a good one from the session

alphajerk · 25th April 2005, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigmaDeltaAudio

Yeah. I just wanted to see what other people do on a regular basis..

vary my approach constantly.... the one thing i do on a regular basis is REALLY tune the thing. i dont use dampening unless even when tuned as best as possible has too much ring to it.... then i use a feather pillow and go from hardly touching it towards it until i get what im after.

as for kicks themselves, i prefer a 22" with heads on both sides, ported or not [doesnt matter either way] but dont like single heads as much but some of that decision comes down to the drummer as well. ill try and work with whatever i have to work with [just tune the fuk outta it]... i tend to like the evans eq3 head but am open to about any head the drummer likes. i prefer wooden beaters, sometimes cork, sometimes felt. again, drummers call sometimes.

mics and pre's change constantly.

room placement changes.

Froombosch · 25th April 2005, 07:39 AM

Have you tried a riser? Works more than great for me. (thanks to Mike Shipley).

doorknocker · 25th April 2005, 08:03 AM

I guess it's the room, some ideas: carpet under kit, gobos, extreme compression on FOK mic combined with beater side mic (a 57 might do).
If the kick/player or room sucks to begin with, at least make it colorful. Flabby kick with compression? I guess something like Radiohead's 'High and Dry' ain't your standard 'LA drum clinic' kick sound either, just to pick a random example.
Make it more 'bass drum' and less 'kick'.

What direction are you going? Examples?

If all else fails, record to a wax cylinder and inform the drummer that unfortunately he won't be able to use the kick at all.....

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

sonic dogg · 25th April 2005, 08:13 AM

Ah the pain......Risers work amazingly...sometimes anyway...uncouples the drum from the room...I also like the kik dynamic inside and upclose..Audix D6/D4 or the ATM25 and an LDC downlow in front in cardioid.Clean pre on the close mics and API for da killa downlow. Also like the smallish kik drums..a 20" done up for the occasion will most likely sound as good if not better than them big ole slow bastids and tune so much easier.I'm also liking that pad that was suggested already..that and the hard-side of the thumper thingy.Kee-Racckhummmp...

blackcom · 25th April 2005, 10:01 AM

Beta 91 inside kick, beta 52 in hole. Both into API. Sometimes switching phase on one of the mics will ad a nice "suck" to the sound. Then I remove a lot from around 250hz...paralell-compress it hard with enough attach to get some puch....

...and even with the most stubborn drummer I "blend" in a bittle-little soundreplacing with a very very clicky bassdrum-sample and just demonstrates is for the drummer....they allways end up agreeing to have it there in the end as all the punch and dynamics still comes from the mics...

oh, and wooden or plastic beater and a hard-plast plate on the head sounds alot better in my ears.....

**Jules** · 25th April 2005, 10:23 AM

For me

NO:

Mufflers / power stroke / foam / giant pillows

NOTHING

just a very low (2 inches?) folded blanket or sheet up against the inside the drum pressed against the plain old fashioned drum head (the one hit with the beater..)

I have learned the key can be to keep the padding VERY low.

EVERY TIME a drummer arrives with a gadget / gimmick to make a head "deader", or with drum heads that are extra thick or oil coated to 'last forever' - it's a disaster..

and we have to take it off and go back and buy a plain head & rip out all the fancy dampening system...

Fletcher · 25th April 2005, 11:22 AM

Are you having trouble finding the kik sound acapella or is this in context to the song? If it's all on it's lonesome... who gives a fukk... some of the best kik sounds in context sound like complete ass when left to their own devices [a good example would be the kik drum on the Zeppelin song "Ramble On"... shitty, flappy, boxy sounding piece of shit on it's own... perfect in the track].

If anything I'd suggest you try messing with the sound in context to the music you're working on... with all the players playing it may very well define itself for you. Tuning, mic'ing, processing... it all changes on a "per song basis" in my experience.

Hope that might be a different approach with which you can experiment a bit [hell, if the wind is blowing in the proper direction, you might actually be able to find some inspiration from experimentation... or not].

Peace.

dntknowsht · 25th April 2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexi

hi there,

a little bit of dampening (pillow), drumhead tuned veeeeeeeeeeery loose.

cheers

Agreed!

**toolskid** · 25th April 2005, 01:24 PM

maybe try SAW studio?......... kidding

whats the room like, whats the drum, is there a tom-holder in the kick (if so..remove) or is it a sealed shell, skin type, wats the drummer like: a basher or more gentle..give us some specifics

hope i didn't offend with any of my questions.....

I dont have ANY set way of dealing with kicks, like Fletcher said, its on a song-by-song basis

ps: I've never failed to get something usable with a royer r-122 or 121 on the fok

after dealing with the source in the room first

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24th April 2005, 10:14 PM	#1
Robert Randolph Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 392	So what you guys do for kick drums? Been working in a room Im not used to and Im having the worst time getting a decent kick sound.... What do you guys do? I need some inspiration, ive tried everything I can think of... im worn out after 4 hours of that garbage. Continually terrible sound despite everything (moving the kit around 5 head changes, different kick drums, different mics, blankets, different muffling, kick tunnel etc...). This is just killin me and costing the client money. sample replacing isnt an option because the drummer's a stubborn ass. Throw out some ideas guys and gals. __________________ I am the Admiral Bumblebee.

24th April 2005, 10:55 PM	#5
Robert Randolph Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 392	sigh I dont need a course, I was asking how everyone else does it. Ive done this 1000 times over but today it just aint happenin. Looking for inspiration. thanks for the idea though, trying not to be offended. __________________ I am the Admiral Bumblebee.

24th April 2005, 10:59 PM	#6
Farview Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 371	What doesn't sound right about it? Can you describe the ruckus, sir? __________________ Jay Walsh Farview Recording - And check out Farview's Rock Drum samples for Drumagog AND in .WAV format!!!

24th April 2005, 11:01 PM	#7
Robert Randolph Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 392	Dont want anyone fixing the problem for me... I just wanna know how things other people do.. im quite stubborn, if there's a problem Ill fix it myself, just need some inspiration __________________ I am the Admiral Bumblebee.

24th April 2005, 10:22 PM	#2
Alexi Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg Posts: 1,067	hi there, powerstroke 3, a little bit of dampening (pillow), drumhead tuned veeeeeeeeeeery loose. cheers

24th April 2005, 10:31 PM	#3
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	I worked with a drummer who had a nice early '70's Ludwig kit...except for the kick drum. Was completely un-happening in any room. Later he told me he found a matching replacement...exact in every way except that it sounded good.

24th April 2005, 11:05 PM	#8
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,190	hmmmm....What sound are you going for.....do you actually know, or is it one of those "we'll know it when we hear it"? That could be a big part of the problem. There are about a million ways of approaching it, and they are all perfect SOMETIMES. Are you listening to this solo-ed or something....or is there other instrumentation so you can at least get a perspective? One thing I see alot of people miss out on.... try the beater side, but mic very close to the outer edge, for more bass response. That tends to work well in bad rooms. Also, even if the room isn't that great, you should be able to get a decent tone inside the kick..... What are some of the combinations you are using, and what are you finding lacking?

24th April 2005, 11:09 PM	#9
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,190	Why would you be offended at people taking their time to reply to a pretty basic question? If you are trying to get inspiration, that is one thing, but the original post had a more "up shit creek without a paddle" vibe to it. Best of luck!

24th April 2005, 11:12 PM	#10
Farview Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 371	I take a d112, put it in the kick aimed at the beater. As close as I can get to the head. Take a Beta 52 and put it in the hole in the front head (small hole in the head) so that just the grill is inside the head. The batter head is tuned slack. The tention on the head comes from the lugs on the left and right. The top and bottom ones should have just enough tension to not rattle. The front head should be tuned to the note you want the drum to speak. If it is too ringy (if the note is too long, [if you have a y sound your head is too tight or too old]) take a dish towel and just drape it in the hole so half is inside and half is outside. Send the D112 into a clean preamp, send the the B52 to a preamp that gets a little fuzzy on the low end when you push it. (I use an Amek 9098) Depending on the depth of the kick, you might have to line up the tracks in your daw. __________________ Jay Walsh Farview Recording - And check out Farview's Rock Drum samples for Drumagog AND in .WAV format!!!

24th April 2005, 11:35 PM	#12
joeq Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 3,907	personally, my customary kick drum setup is just an Evans EQ 3 carefully tuned with a small blanket inside. ATM-25 in the hole, U195 in "Fat" in front. Hard beater hitting bare head. pretty straightforward, I guess. Throwing out a bunch of different stuff here, maybe something will hit. have you tried messing with the pedal? - change beaters? I have an old red-apple oak beater that sometimes saves the day when my modern specially shaped hi-tech beaters are not cutting through. There are those badges, patches and the old taping a quarter to the strike point. Or maybe go in the other direction - felt beater, leather patch on the skin. There are those flappy things- I forget the brand- which lift off the head at the moment of contact and then drop back down. Shredded plastic bag confetti inside the drum does something similar. take the drum out of the 'drum corner' or booth or whatever and drag it around to different places in the room until the kick sounds good. Even a small room will have better and worse spots. Set up the drums there and if the band is tracking together put the guitars in the booths. Hmmmm you called the drummer "stubborn" and you called yourself "stubborn"! Don't let the drummer's personality influence your perception of the kick sound and vice versa.

24th April 2005, 11:40 PM	#13
SoSueMe Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86	What kind of music?? Is the drummer consistant in volume (on the kick)? Is he playing basic (non-busy) rhythms? What's the room like? Is the kick double-headed? Does the front head have a cutout, if applicable? What kind of pedal is he using? Felt/Wood? What kind of heads on the kick (exactly)? What are you imagining, if anything? What mic(s) on the kick? Also, does he play "heel-to-toe?" Does he let the head ring out after striking the head, or does the batter stay in contact with the head?

24th April 2005, 11:50 PM	#14
Rick Sutton Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 1,842	A couple of shots in the dark without hearing the drum: After it's tuned to get the best low end response from it ,without loose flapping, use a standard bed pillow, lay it in the bottom of the drum just touching the beater head. Get a common red brick or stone of equal weight and put it on the pillow to hold it in place and add weight to the kick. (I have a special brick that I've used for years...no shit, I kid you not. This step is important) Cut a piece of t-shirt about 4-5 inches square and tape it onto the inside of the beater head about one inch above the contact area. It is taped only on the top edge so when the beater hits the head the fabric flies away from the head and returns to damp the head. Use a 421 inside , fet 47 outside, API pres and stir in some eq ( boost 60, dip 300, boost 2k). Tighten with a Urei LA22, mix to taste and serve hot. And as mentioned earlier flip every phase switch on the drum set in every combo and listen carefully for best solidity for kick and snare. If that doesn't work get another kick drum and repeat.

25th April 2005, 12:54 AM	#15
Zarathustra Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: St. Croix River Valley Posts: 312	The Ol' ribbon outside the kick can almost never fail to bring a smile.. I like the Royer 121 into an API 312, Senneheiser 421 inside for attack... "ker-THUMP" Z __________________ "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." - Henry J. Kaiser

25th April 2005, 02:33 AM	#17
Bang Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,292	I use the aquarian kick pack with the one ply beater head.. two ply is too dead... don't use a kick pad.. turn the beater so its on the HARD site, felt beaters don't have the KNOCK at least for me. I use an Audix D-6 on the inside and then I augment it with a sample I made using a D-6 and D112 in the drum, an SM 57 on the beater side of the drum, and a FET 47 on the outside of the drum. all going to a Neve 1081 and a dbx 160VU. I'd say find a nice sample and add in a "Soundreplacer" track and add it in and just don't tell him about it. As long as it sounds good why the f should he care? Steve www.bangrecording.com www.blacklinerock.com

25th April 2005, 02:52 AM	#18
alphajerk There is only one Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: asheville NC Posts: 5,291	legal inspiration? __________________ "i must invent my own systems or else be enslaved by other men's'" william blake __________________________ send me a buzz @ barrett's mad laboratory 828.242.4366 email: barrett [at] alphajerk [dot] com

25th April 2005, 04:05 AM	#20
maxim Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 217	make sure the drum is in the right spot in the room try building a tunnel over the kick, so you can compress the shit out of it later a bit of eq won't hurt either make sure the phase is right if all else fails, replace with either your favourite sample or a good one from the session __________________ cheers max sydney, oz "I find love the most important thing in the world. It’s much more important than songs or music or bicycles or cars or mansions. And so, I’ve always chosen to write about love." Harlan Howard

25th April 2005, 07:39 AM	#22
Froombosch Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Froombosch Posts: 383	Have you tried a riser? Works more than great for me. (thanks to Mike Shipley). __________________ Harrie Munnik Studio Froombosch on My Space

25th April 2005, 08:03 AM	#23
doorknocker Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Basel, Switzerland Posts: 3,618	I guess it's the room, some ideas: carpet under kit, gobos, extreme compression on FOK mic combined with beater side mic (a 57 might do). If the kick/player or room sucks to begin with, at least make it colorful. Flabby kick with compression? I guess something like Radiohead's 'High and Dry' ain't your standard 'LA drum clinic' kick sound either, just to pick a random example. Make it more 'bass drum' and less 'kick'. What direction are you going? Examples? If all else fails, record to a wax cylinder and inform the drummer that unfortunately he won't be able to use the kick at all..... Andi www.doorknocker.ch

25th April 2005, 08:13 AM	#24
sonic dogg Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: pacific northwest Posts: 481	Ah the pain......Risers work amazingly...sometimes anyway...uncouples the drum from the room...I also like the kik dynamic inside and upclose..Audix D6/D4 or the ATM25 and an LDC downlow in front in cardioid.Clean pre on the close mics and API for da killa downlow. Also like the smallish kik drums..a 20" done up for the occasion will most likely sound as good if not better than them big ole slow bastids and tune so much easier.I'm also liking that pad that was suggested already..that and the hard-side of the thumper thingy.Kee-Racckhummmp... __________________ the clubhouse studio....home of drool'n dogg rekords

25th April 2005, 10:01 AM	#25
blackcom Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 616	Beta 91 inside kick, beta 52 in hole. Both into API. Sometimes switching phase on one of the mics will ad a nice "suck" to the sound. Then I remove a lot from around 250hz...paralell-compress it hard with enough attach to get some puch.... ...and even with the most stubborn drummer I "blend" in a bittle-little soundreplacing with a very very clicky bassdrum-sample and just demonstrates is for the drummer....they allways end up agreeing to have it there in the end as all the punch and dynamics still comes from the mics... oh, and wooden or plastic beater and a hard-plast plate on the head sounds alot better in my ears.....

25th April 2005, 10:23 AM	#26
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 11,814	For me NO: Mufflers / power stroke / foam / giant pillows NOTHING just a very low (2 inches?) folded blanket or sheet up against the inside the drum pressed against the plain old fashioned drum head (the one hit with the beater..) I have learned the key can be to keep the padding VERY low. EVERY TIME a drummer arrives with a gadget / gimmick to make a head "deader", or with drum heads that are extra thick or oil coated to 'last forever' - it's a disaster.. and we have to take it off and go back and buy a plain head & rip out all the fancy dampening system... __________________ Jules "...there are some amazing deals to be had in this right now. it brings battleship mixing closer to the jilted generation" - reptil

25th April 2005, 11:22 AM	#27
Fletcher 3 + infractions, membership under review with GS admin Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA Posts: 5,783	Are you having trouble finding the kik sound acapella or is this in context to the song? If it's all on it's lonesome... who gives a fukk... some of the best kik sounds in context sound like complete ass when left to their own devices [a good example would be the kik drum on the Zeppelin song "Ramble On"... shitty, flappy, boxy sounding piece of shit on it's own... perfect in the track]. If anything I'd suggest you try messing with the sound in context to the music you're working on... with all the players playing it may very well define itself for you. Tuning, mic'ing, processing... it all changes on a "per song basis" in my experience. Hope that might be a different approach with which you can experiment a bit [hell, if the wind is blowing in the proper direction, you might actually be able to find some inspiration from experimentation... or not]. Peace. __________________ [COLOR="White"][/COLOR] [SIZE="2"][b]Fletcher[/b][/SIZE] If you have a question please email me at [email]Fletcher@mercenary.com[/email] instead of using the PM system... I very rarely check that system and it could take a while to get a response. I can also be found at either address below: [size=2][url=http://recforums.prosoundweb.com][b]R/E/P[/b][/url][/size] the [b]R[/b]ecording [b]E[/b]ngineer and [b]P[/b]roducer forums [url=http://www.mercenary.com][b]Mercenary Audio[/b][/url] [size=1][b]mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33[/b] We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid [b][url=http://www.ericambel.com/index.htm]Roscoe[/url] Ambel once said[/b]: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light[/size]

25th April 2005, 01:24 PM	#29
toolskid Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: london Posts: 2,123	maybe try SAW studio?......... kidding whats the room like, whats the drum, is there a tom-holder in the kick (if so..remove) or is it a sealed shell, skin type, wats the drummer like: a basher or more gentle..give us some specifics hope i didn't offend with any of my questions..... I dont have ANY set way of dealing with kicks, like Fletcher said, its on a song-by-song basis ps: I've never failed to get something usable with a royer r-122 or 121 on the fok after dealing with the source in the room first __________________ Emre Ramazanoglu http://www.emremusic.com the wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision the whole universe. The fool, however, will just lie down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go "Hey, I'm vine man"