Basic Questions...

[Umlaaat]

ok.. gotta confess. i'm not too learned on some of the more baisic points of this ae thing.

What is Line level? A mic pre brings a condensor mic up to line level? if so, is this how a mixing desk is used.. that is, are all channels used on line level?

A line level mixer, like the Speck, (or if applicable the D2Bus) is used for line level outputs from your daw or a/d and used for 1. summing, 2. mixing?

A dynamic mic does not need phantom power, but does need a mic pre? I thought the purpose of a mic pre was to supply a mic with phantom power... if not, then can a dynamic mic plug into a line input or directly into a compressor?

There are too many definitions of dB. dbVU, dB, etc... when I see "unity" on a Mackie mixer or 0.0 on Logic which one does this signify?

sorry for the seemingly extreme newbie q's...

[Farview]

Line level is the level that audio equipment run at. There are two major standards: -10 and +4. What line level is depends on the standard that the equipment you are using was designed for. Some things have switches to let you choose.

Unity is when you have a fader on a mixer (hardware or software) set so that you are not adding or taking away gain. If you have a line level signal feeding into a mixer channel set at unity, the meter should read 0 (on analog gear)

The signal coming out of a mic is very small so you need a mic preamp to boost the signal to line level. There are mic preamps without phantom power and phantom power boxes without preamps.

The different db scales are used for different things. In a daw or on digital equipment you will see dbfs (db full scale) 0 is at the top of the scale. The limit to how much you can push a signal is 0dbfs. On analog equipment you see dbvu. 0dbvu = line level in that piece of equipment.
You will find that if you plug a mixer into a set of A/D convertors, with a 0dbvu signal coming out of the mixer, the DAW will read -12dbfs.

[Umlaaat]

Originally Posted by Farview

Line level is the level that audio equipment run at. There are two major standards: -10 and +4. What line level is depends on the standard that the equipment you are using was designed for. Some things have switches to let you choose.

Unity is when you have a fader on a mixer (hardware or software) set so that you are not adding or taking away gain. If you have a line level signal feeding into a mixer channel set at unity, the meter should read 0 (on analog gear)

The signal coming out of a mic is very small so you need a mic preamp to boost the signal to line level. There are mic preamps without phantom power and phantom power boxes without preamps.

The different db scales are used for different things. In a daw or on digital equipment you will see dbfs (db full scale) 0 is at the top of the scale. The limit to how much you can push a signal is 0dbfs. On analog equipment you see dbvu. 0dbvu = line level in that piece of equipment.
You will find that if you plug a mixer into a set of A/D convertors, with a 0dbvu signal coming out of the mixer, the DAW will read -12dbfs.

ok.. so why does Logic go to +6 db

Unity is so that you can sum on analog gear? Why wouldn't you add or take away gain then?

-10 and +4 is for added headroom, like "professional and consumer"?

I've never seen a phantom power box without preamps.. would that mean there is no gain stage? And a pre without phantom power, would that be something simliar to a 1/4" input on a mackie board?

thanks for the answers

[hociman]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

ok.. so why does Logic go to +6 db

So that you can apply an extra 6 dB of gain to a signal. The zero point on any mixer's fader, whether its an O2R, a DMX-R100, Pro Tools, Logic, or a BIG by Langley is the point at which no gain change is occurring. What goes into that fader is what comes out, nothing more, nothing less.

Unity is so that you can sum on analog gear?

No. Unity is so that you can pass the signal through a channel of some sort without changing its gain.

Why wouldn't you add or take away gain then?

If you wanted to maintain the signal level of the source at your destination, then you wouldn't want to add or subtract gain.

-10 and +4 is for added headroom, like "professional and consumer"?

No. -10dBV and +4dBu are operating levels. The professional equipment operates at +4dBu. If you have a 1kHz tone at -20dBFS leaving your console or DAW, and you measure its voltage with a voltmeter at the console or DAW's output (if its a +4dBu device), you should see 1.23 Volts RMS or 3.47 Volts peak to peak. Confessional equipment (aka prosumer) operates at -10dBV. If you have a 1kHz tone at -20dBFS leaving your console or DAW, and you measure its voltage with a voltmeter at the console or DAW's output (if its a -10dBV device), you should see 0.775 Volts RMS or 1.09585 Volts peak to peak.

I've never seen a phantom power box without preamps.. would that mean there is no gain stage?

All it means is that the gain stage occurs elsewhere, such as in your console.

And a pre without phantom power, would that be something simliar to a 1/4" input on a mackie board?

Yes. Any preamp with a 48V/phantom power switch qualifies as a pre without phantom power (as long as that switch is off!).

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

ok.. so why does Logic go to +6 db

I have never seen logic, what goes up to +6? The meters or the faders?

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

Unity is so that you can sum on analog gear? Why wouldn't you add or take away gain then?

Unity is not a thing, it is a state. Unity gain is when no gain is being added or taken away. That is all it means.

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

-10 and +4 is for added headroom, like "professional and consumer"?

It is just a different design, home stereos and a lot of cheaper gear are -10 and most high end stuff is +4. You can have really good equipment that runs at -10, and cheap garbage that runs at +4.

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I've never seen a phantom power box without preamps.. would that mean there is no gain stage?

Yes, a preamp is the gain stage.

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

And a pre without phantom power, would that be something simliar to a 1/4" input on a mackie board?

No, the 1/4" input on a mackie is expecting a line level signal, if you plug a mic into it, you won't have enough gain to get a good signal. If you had an outboard mic pre, you would plug the mic into the preamp and the output of the preamp into the 1/4" input of the mackie. The preamp turns the mic level signal that comes out of the mic into a line level signal that the 1/4" input wants to see.

thanks for the answers [/quote]

[Umlaaat]

Originally Posted by Farview

I have never seen logic, what goes up to +6? The meters or the faders?


Unity is not a thing, it is a state. Unity gain is when no gain is being added or taken away. That is all it means.

It is just a different design, home stereos and a lot of cheaper gear are -10 and most high end stuff is +4. You can have really good equipment that runs at -10, and cheap garbage that runs at +4.


Yes, a preamp is the gain stage.

No, the 1/4" input on a mackie is expecting a line level signal, if you plug a mic into it, you won't have enough gain to get a good signal. If you had an outboard mic pre, you would plug the mic into the preamp and the output of the preamp into the 1/4" input of the mackie. The preamp turns the mic level signal that comes out of the mic into a line level signal that the 1/4" input wants to see.

thanks for the answers

[/quote]

So a compressor with an input knob would have no affect on a dynamic mic?

A dynamic mic does not need phanton power (?), but I haven't seen a mic pre that does not come with phantom power...

[Farview]

So a compressor with an input knob would have no affect on a dynamic mic?

A dynamic mic does not need phanton power (?), but I haven't seen a mic pre that does not come with phantom power...[/quote]
If you have a very lous sorce, you might be able to get the compressor to do something. The compressor is designed to work with line level sources. A mic puts out mic level. So you need a preamp to bring the mic level singal from the mic up to line level so the compressor can work properly.

Mic preamps without phantom power are not very common. Don't worry about the fact that you haven't seen one. It doesn't matter.

[5down1up]

you can hook up a dynamic mic to just f.ex a comp or delay or ... you choose it .
youll get a signal , which doesnt mean that it will sound any good .
if you like LOFI , you can try it ( sometimes i hook up some mics straight to my comps ) .

a dynamic mic does not need phantom power ... , u can use any speaker as a mic ( same principles ... moving air etc blabla )

why would you buy a pre without having the option to hook up some condensers ?
there are pre amp modules which dont have phantom power build in .
f.ex raw telefunken modules etc.
phantom power boxes ... there are some ( neumann , etc ... for the xtra constant 48 V ) + there is some older gear that needs a different voltage .

dont let the meters confuse you ... to make an analog vu read ovu you need an constant level . in fact of those vus are kinda slow , you would need a lot more impact f.ex on a bass drum to make the vu hit zero . the way you calibrate those meters is u send in a signal f.ex 1khz sine tone +6db ( make sure the source and the gear u wanna adjust is all set to the same level -10 , +4 ... some broadcasting gear is +6 ... am i wrong ? ) . this signal should be adjusted to " 0dbvu " . now if you send this level to your daw its all up to you and your needs how you calibrate the input of your system . f.ex 0dbvu = -20dbfs or whatever you like . after you did adjust the ins you simply record that sine tone and measure the outs back to your analog vu . kinda wired ... but thats how it goes .

good luck , google a lil ... youll find all the answers u need

[Umlaaat]

good stuff, y'all..

thanks for the tips.. So basically, things are set so that evrything can run at line level.. which is where compressors, etc work (I guess this applies to eq's and all other outboard gear?)

#2 - What does in phase/out of phase mean?

I read a post about stereo width - "All you have to do is take some of the right-hand signal and feed it to the left channel out of phase, while at the same time taking some of the left-hand signal and feeding it to the right channel out of phase."

How would you do this?

#3 - Aux in Pro Tools = Bus in Logic? There are some good tips but they relate to how people work in PT. I've read this in another post -

"1 Set up a delay on an Aux send. Set the left channel to 10ms, the right to 14ms. (You'll have to play with these times)

2 Send the desired "Wide" track on the Aux."

How would you do this in Logic? Would you substitute aux for bus and send X amt. of signal to the bus via the send pot on a channel?

[chadly]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

good stuff, y'all..
How would you do this?

#3 - Aux in Pro Tools = Bus in Logic? There are some good tips but they relate to how people work in PT. I've read this in another post -

"1 Set up a delay on an Aux send. Set the left channel to 10ms, the right to 14ms. (You'll have to play with these times)

2 Send the desired "Wide" track on the Aux."

How would you do this in Logic? Would you substitute aux for bus and send X amt. of signal to the bus via the send pot on a channel?

If this is a little vague, it's basically the same way you'd setup a reverb in your DAW (be it Sonar, Logic, etc.) I'm not for certain about the implementation in Logic, but it shouldn't be too hard. It's essentially like using an Aux to get things wider, like you'd use a verb. PM me if there's any confusion.

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[Umlaaat]

Originally Posted by chadly

If this is a little vague, it's basically the same way you'd setup a reverb in your DAW (be it Sonar, Logic, etc.) I'm not for certain about the implementation in Logic, but it shouldn't be too hard. It's essentially like using an Aux to get things wider, like you'd use a verb. PM me if there's any confusion.

ok.. so then its like a bus in Logic... thats strange that they would label that as an Aux track.

now only if someone could help me out with this phase thing...

[5down1up]

on a desk you usually have auxes + busses ... why they call it just busses in logic who knows ? ... but in the end you can give it any name you like to !


matterfact , you send the channel with the auxes or busses or xyz to another device . whats that good for ?

you take all the drum tracks and route em instead of your main out f.ex 1-2 to bus 1-2 . now u can control the " whole drum levels " with only one fader . the bus will go out to your main out . or to another bus as well . you can do what you like here .

bout that phase thing :

lets say you have one guitar track . now you choose an aux send or bus or whatever it is called ( dont get confused ) to send that signal to an f.ex fx device , like an delay etc.

now you can ( all just examples ) pan the original guitar to the left side and pan the delay to the right . you can use that delay either as an " real fx " or just as an ambience setting ( short delay times ) . just try to flip the delay out of phase to see whats happening .

summary : you need an audio track + one send from that particular track . an aux input which holds the desired fx and which gets feeded by the source audio track .
guitar panned hard left ( feeding delay )
delay panned hard right ( 100% wet , in or out of phase )

in a daw some strange stuff happens in fact of every processing creates a tinytiny sometimes a big delay . no clue bout newer logic versions here , simply try it !

[Umlaaat]

nice..

I just tried this with a drum loop in Logic. The Inverting of the phase on my bus track had this strange effect.. definetley wider than just going mono. I then applied a sample delay, delaying it by 1900 samples.. the effect at this point didn't change when the phase was inverted or normal.

I guess I'm trying to understand what it is that inverting phase does... I understand it turns it upside down, but theoretically, it should just cancel itself out, no?

thanks for the answers...

[5down1up]

if u have 2 " identical " tracks and you reverse one ... they r gone

if u delay one of those tracks and phase reverse on of them ... they cant be gone , cause they r not identical .

if your doing that delay stuff , phase reversing is just an option to make it sound more real or more phasey .