What do you think of the mix on Metallica's new track "The Day That Never Comes"

[blackened]

As most of you may probably remember I am the guy that hates most sound engineers, and today I think it has all come to a head. Now Rick Rubin is at the top of my shit list for destroying one of my favorite bands of all time...

They are the mightiest of all metal gods, and can be challenged by none... They are the band that sent thrash into the mainstream, and practically changed the perception of great metal as we know it. They have no equal. They are, of course, Metallica.

God damn these fools that produced their new album. I think the new track they released shows a great example of how an artist can have a great song and vision, and in the production, it can all be ruined. How disappointing and what a travesty. The mix on this thing is pathetic and totally uninspired. Thanks to Rick Rubin for that. He is such a loser producer, maybe the king of all lousy overrated producers. He has destroyed so many of my favorite bands, two that come to mind are Slipknot and Slayer. I never liked the mixes he did for either band.

While I'm sure there are those that will disagree, I would have to say that anyone who cannot see what i'm talking about must basically be a chimp. Because only a chimp would disagree with me on something like this. And now we all get to laugh reading what the chimps have to say about what I have said.

Blackened

[ryst]

Originally Posted by blackened

He has destroyed so many of my favorite bands, two that come to mind are Slipknot and Slayer. I never liked the mixes he did for either band.

AFAIK, Rick Rubin doesn't record or mix. He is just a producer.

[octatonic]

Blender?

[PoorGlory]

Points you made:

Originally Posted by blackened

1. They are the mightiest of all metal gods, and can be challenged by none...

2. They are the band that sent thrash into the mainstream, and practically changed the perception of great metal as we know it.


3. They have no equal.

1. You don't listen to a lot of metal, do you?
2. True
3. Equal in what? Skill? Talent? Live show? Tons of bands destroy them in those categories. Equal in terms of legend status? Then no, they don't have an equal.

Oh, and I think the mix is "Eh..." at best. Don't like any of the sounds other than the vocals (production, not performance).

[ORGANIK]

yeah i mean i only heard it on the radio to be fair, wich is over limited and fuzzy, so i dont think its a great format to be listning critically to judge a mix, but i will say from what i heard....
1. vocals sound good
2. timing is all over the place during the heavy parts
3.through my stereo the toms and snare sounded over compressed and slightly distorted in a crappy way.
4.everything kinda sounded over compressed
overall its way better than that horrific sounded last album..LOL

but maybe.... based on this new one possibly sounding bad and the puke last recording they made, maybe its the players and personalitys ? maybe thier new sounds are crap, sloppy playing etc all are factors. i Mean i am sure lars's stupid ass is breathing down the mixers neck saying why dont we do this and that were metallica man we can experiment. LOL (engineer shaking his head )

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by organik

1. vocals sound good

James voice sounds like t's in good shape, but what he is singing blows.

Originally Posted by organik

3.through my stereo the toms and snare sounded over compressed and slightly distorted in a crappy way.

The whole thing sounds like they ran it through a mush-box.

Originally Posted by organik

overall its way better than that horrific sounded last album..LOL

No...Just a different kind of horrific.

Originally Posted by organik

Mean i am sure lars's stupid ass is breathing down the mixers neck saying why dont we do this and that were metallica man we can experiment. LOL (engineer shaking his head )

Anyone know who mixed it?

[84K]

back in the day they had a vibe... then they cut their hair together and made cheesy pop-rock songs, then they made the worst heavy rock/lite metal album they could possibly make, now they are a caricature of their good and bad days, and package accordingly.

[dnaflr2]

I must be pretty bored to make a comment about a band I
Haven't paid attention to since highschool, but I couldn't help noticing that the new song title must be a refernce to them waiting for another hit record that will never come.

[edvdr76]

For my taste...the snare is a little too loud in the mix

[BOWIE]

They are shamelessly trying to sound old school and shake their current bad rep. However, they haven't committed to it 100% and I don't think they ever could as they are no longer in that frame of mind. I think that, as men, they have become whiny and pathetic.
And this nonsense: "They have no equal." Sabbath anyone?? Or, how about Motorhead, a band who just released their 20th studio album, and was kicking ass long before Metallica and still puts out killer albums. I never heard Lemmy whine about taking his kids to school or feeling stressed.

[warhead]

I'm listening to "Cyanide" which has horrible mp3 compression going on.

Still, the balance for "metal" seems bad. The guitars are more background, vocals are up, snare doesn't seem a good fit for the song. Overall it seems loose and not tight, which metal should be.

It sounds more like 80's metal again, but it's not THRASH which is what I used to love them for. Seems solos are back in style though...Lars kick playing still seems to leave a lot desired compared to his old days. The vocals are pretty much a step back from the old days also. Trujillo seems a good addition.

I haven't bought an album of theirs since the Black album, and was not happy with the lack of thrash on that one.

Checking out this "Day That Never Comes" video, man that snare sounds like garbage and just doesn't fit the style. The crappy limiting going on isn't helping either...

War

[James Meeker]

The problems I have with the technical end:

1.) Snare is too loud in the mix, especially in the beginning. Shouldn't that have been automated? It sounds kind of stupid coming in that loudly. I'm also not a fan of the 'squidgy' front end of the snare, sounds like a bad compressor setting. There is also a bit too much distortion on the snare from the compressor. However, in later parts of the track the snare could be a bit louder... which makes me think there was some kind of 'no automation' rule going on.

2.) Like a lot of Metallica's music in the past the bass guitar seems pushed too low in the mix. Not as bad as "Justice" but not really very modern sounding.

3.) Rhythm guitars lack tightness. My guess is they let Kirk lay down some of the rhythm tracks because Hetfield gets 'em super tight.

4.) Not a huge fan of the overall guitar tone. It's this strange mix of too saturated on the top end, but too clean overall. Compared to most modern heavy rock CD's they sound really wimpy.

5.) Is it just me or are there some really odd things going on with the stereo imagery? I haven't had a chance to bump the track on really good monitors yet but I keep hearing "stuff" in the recording on the far ends of the spread that are distracting. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me or something, which is why I want to take a closer look.

6.) Kick sounds like it was sampled from "Justice." It has that annoying, nasty squidgy front end from that album that drives me nuts.

7.) Overall, the mix is flat and lifeless. I'm guessing zero automation. Just set the faders and let it ride out. Borrrrring!

Personally I always felt that Rick Rubin's slackadesical and hands off approach to producing was a bad fit with a band like Metallica. It's obvious that they need to be PRODUCED--egos stroked, smack downs administered, guitarists pushed, crap detector engaged, and so forth. It is clear that left to their own devices you're going to get a lot of longwinded, rambling "epic" songs that lack cohesion and punch.

Plus, let's face it, they can *AFFORD* to sound amazing. Why isn't a top mix engineer doing this record? I'm sure they can afford Andy Wallace from a few days touring pay to mix the record.

I don't get Metallica. They love shooting themselves in the foot. In fact, they've spent most of the last decade doing exactly that.

Technically they have the talent and money to make the BEST album ever. I just don't think they want to put in the work. They should have started out with the ambition to sonically top their self-titled album and bring that level of songwriting to the table combined with the greater musical integrity of their classic 80's albums. That would have been a new direction.

In a lot of ways this record strikes me as the worst elements of Load and Justice in a single package. I think I'll pass.

[lematrix]

This is how a Rock Band today sounds without Beat Detektive, Vocalign, Autotune - recorded to Tape. Have you all forgot how it sounds ? or never had the chance ?

I would say, it sounds 100 percent like Metallica is playing, like always when Rubin is producing an act. The snare is not to loud..


I never liked Metallica, but this sounds really fresh to me, reminds me of the old days ;-) Great !


...so, you can kill me now !!

Greetings from Berlin, Mathias

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

The problems I have with the technical end:

1.) Snare is too loud in the mix, especially in the beginning. Shouldn't that have been automated? It sounds kind of stupid coming in that loudly. I'm also not a fan of the 'squidgy' front end of the snare, sounds like a bad compressor setting. There is also a bit too much distortion on the snare from the compressor. However, in later parts of the track the snare could be a bit louder... which makes me think there was some kind of 'no automation' rule going on.

2.) Like a lot of Metallica's music in the past the bass guitar seems pushed too low in the mix. Not as bad as "Justice" but not really very modern sounding.

3.) Rhythm guitars lack tightness. My guess is they let Kirk lay down some of the rhythm tracks because Hetfield gets 'em super tight.

4.) Not a huge fan of the overall guitar tone. It's this strange mix of too saturated on the top end, but too clean overall. Compared to most modern heavy rock CD's they sound really wimpy.

5.) Is it just me or are there some really odd things going on with the stereo imagery? I haven't had a chance to bump the track on really good monitors yet but I keep hearing "stuff" in the recording on the far ends of the spread that are distracting. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me or something, which is why I want to take a closer look.

6.) Kick sounds like it was sampled from "Justice." It has that annoying, nasty squidgy front end from that album that drives me nuts.

7.) Overall, the mix is flat and lifeless. I'm guessing zero automation. Just set the faders and let it ride out. Borrrrring!

Personally I always felt that Rick Rubin's slackadesical and hands off approach to producing was a bad fit with a band like Metallica. It's obvious that they need to be PRODUCED--egos stroked, smack downs administered, guitarists pushed, crap detector engaged, and so forth. It is clear that left to their own devices you're going to get a lot of longwinded, rambling "epic" songs that lack cohesion and punch.

Plus, let's face it, they can *AFFORD* to sound amazing. Why isn't a top mix engineer doing this record? I'm sure they can afford Andy Wallace from a few days touring pay to mix the record.

I don't get Metallica. They love shooting themselves in the foot. In fact, they've spent most of the last decade doing exactly that.

Technically they have the talent and money to make the BEST album ever. I just don't think they want to put in the work. They should have started out with the ambition to sonically top their self-titled album and bring that level of songwriting to the table combined with the greater musical integrity of their classic 80's albums. That would have been a new direction.

In a lot of ways this record strikes me as the worst elements of Load and Justice in a single package. I think I'll pass.

I think you might have overlooked what they were trying to do. The snare, the kick, sloppy guitars, the lack of automation, etc are intentional. The already stated that they wanted it to sound rough. They're trying to build some credibility once again by not sounding polished and sterile like most albums these days.
I think that it's the only thing they have done right in the past 15 years. I like to hear things that are rough and it gives a more authentic feel which Metallica desperately needs.
However, I still don't care for them.

[84K]

anyone who points to the problem with the latest Metallica effort being related to a mix thing has forgotten that none of that matters. The songs, the performance, the message. When there is nothing there, nothing else matters (pun intended)

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by lematrix

This is how a Rock Band today sounds without Beat Detektive, Vocalign, Autotune - recorded to Tape. Have you all forgot how it sounds ? or never had the chance ?

That's what I was trying to say, though you did it much more efficiently.

[lematrix]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

That's what I was trying to say, though you did it much more efficiently.

...haha, thats why i am the producer , not the engineer

do not care if a snare is to loud, care about that the feeling is right. And this song (for me) is right !!

[matt]

Mix wise..I was holding out a little hope in the fact that we could just be hearing the results of crushed mp3s. After seeing/hearing the video....<sigh> it may be all over. Is this their attempt at making another "statement" like they did with Stink Anger? Or/and, is this the result of James and Lars hovering during the mix saying asking for their individual instruments to be louder than the other's??

-Matt

[James Lugo]

As I read this thread I'm listening to 'Let Me Put My Love Into You' off Back In Black. Makes this whole thread lose some meaning. Kinda helping me keep things in perspective. I have old band demoes that I love and still listen to that were never even mixed in the first place. Just ****IN' Rock!

Metallica's struggling for sure, at least they had a heyday to fall from.

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

They are shamelessly trying to sound old school and shake their current bad rep. However, they haven't committed to it 100% and I don't think they ever could as they are no longer in that frame of mind..

Totally agree. I don't think they'll ever re-gain the feel they had. For me this was they're last attempt at trying to nail it and obviously they didn't.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

I think you might have overlooked what they were trying to do. The snare, the kick, sloppy guitars, the lack of automation, etc are intentional. The already stated that they wanted it to sound rough.

::man slips and falls::

"I meant to do that!"

The big trick to having an "authentic" sounding record is having a great feel and nothing that sounds like a mistake. I think tossing out ANYTHING that makes an album better is a mistake (like automation).

[ignatius]

dude.. bob rock destroyed metallica long before rick rubin ever set eyes on them.

"the black album" is a big heaping dogpile of a record and is the first time they made cliff burton roll over in his grave. after that they just keep out doing themselves with how much they can suck.

the latest release is just a continuation of that trend. they are over, been over.. they're done. they need to leave each other alone and stay away from recording studios before no one remembers how good their first 3 albums are...

and maybe get more therapy.. because yeah.. that worked out great for them

[LeMauce]

Originally Posted by ignatius

dude.. bob rock destroyed metallica long before rick rubin ever set eyes on them.

"the black album" is a big heaping dogpile of a record and is the first time they made cliff burton roll over in his grave. after that they just keep out doing themselves with how much they can suck.

the latest release is just a continuation of that trend. they are over, been over.. they're done. they need to leave each other alone and stay away from recording studios before no one remembers how good their first 3 albums are...

and maybe get more therapy.. because yeah.. that worked out great for them

Perhaps in your way of being a sound engineer. POV of the people and musical lisners/fans, it was and still be a great album. Same shit with Muse. Great album but on the mix ... meh nothing special.

Thing do.. this new song.
Flat, boring and hell wtf with the loud ass drums that are so frickin dry that even the Sahara desert is more wetter then that. And the voice... omg. That there isnt be a manager or assistant that had the balls to say "This sound sucks monkey balls!"

[warhead]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

2.) Like a lot of Metallica's music in the past the bass guitar seems pushed too low in the mix. Not as bad as "Justice" but not really very modern sounding.

Anything is louder than MUTE.

There was no bass on And Justice For All...

Not even a hint of it.

War

[warhead]

Originally Posted by lematrix

This is how a Rock Band today sounds without Beat Detektive, Vocalign, Autotune - recorded to Tape. Have you all forgot how it sounds ? or never had the chance ?

I would say, it sounds 100 percent like Metallica is playing,

Have you ever heard "Ride The Lightning"?

Those cats could play back in the day.

While I find "And Justice For All..." to be a kind of too perfect and mechanical / dry / compressed sound, their playing is top notch and required no beat detective or anything else.

The new stuff sounds 100% like Metallica playing worse than they used to is the bottom line for me anyhow!

I saw them with Korn and Kid Rock around 2003 or so, even met Hetfield and Newstead backstage. We got to watch Metallica from above stage right, Korn was there looking higher than hell but groovin'. I could not help but notice how BAD of a CHEAT Lars had become...totally skipping any real efforts to double bass etc.

To watch the guy play "Battery" and not double kick it was very disappointing.

War

[edvdr76]

Originally Posted by 84K

anyone who points to the problem with the latest Metallica effort being related to a mix thing has forgotten that none of that matters. The songs, the performance, the message. When there is nothing there, nothing else matters (pun intended)

Very true.....BUT......The performances on this album are just good, not their best though. I mean don't get me wrong.....I'm a Metallica fan all the way..... I like the new song, BUT I'm also a musician/producer/engineer and that makes me listen to any recorded piece of music in a whole diffrent way. Listen to everything from the Black Album down.... There's just a whole diffrent vibe to their performances....They sound happy and excited to be in the studio. Now look at their newer stuff or for that matter, look at Somekind of Monster DVD or the Mission Metallica stuff on YouTube.... They just seem bored, distracted, not excited to be there, like they're trying too hard....music should be flowing naturally in the studio not forcefully. It's better to go home if nothings' happening then to force yourself to create music. It seems like they just ran out of musical inspiration.... well except Robert Trujillo.....he looks happy to be recording. But That whole vibe they got going on is translating onto their music............ If only there was MUSIC VIAGRA!!

METALLICA #1!!

[FireMoon]

I would say we have to give them their due. They are at least trying to subvert their own genre and try and find a path that doesn't disappear up its' own self indulgent, self reverent jacksie in a welter of click track bass drum sound, guitars having a fist fight with the bass for space and and clichéd *angry* vocals.

Go back and listen to your Zep and Purple albums and the drums are big fat and way up in the mix. Yet the guitars still thunder away with both weight and clarity.

Now in Purple's case, Blackmoore's guitar sound is actually, just chuffin loud , with virtually no distortion at all. The Bass and Guitar are giving each other room to breathe.



With Zep it's a tad different. However again, the guitars and drums are sculpted to make space for each other.

That seems to me anyway, what Metallica are trying to reproduce. Maybe you just can't do it within the genre they inhabit, without totally stepping outside of the box in the way you approach the whole sound.

I say this, in the knowledge that I'm probably one of the few on here who can say Lars Ulrich was a member of one my bands fan club...

[starfighter]

Originally Posted by warhead

Have you ever heard "Ride The Lightning"?

Those cats could play back in the day.

While I find "And Justice For All..." to be a kind of too perfect and mechanical / dry / compressed sound, their playing is top notch and required no beat detective or anything else.

The new stuff sounds 100% like Metallica playing worse than they used to is the bottom line for me anyhow!

I saw them with Korn and Kid Rock around 2003 or so, even met Hetfield and Newstead backstage. We got to watch Metallica from above stage right, Korn was there looking higher than hell but groovin'. I could not help but notice how BAD of a CHEAT Lars had become...totally skipping any real efforts to double bass etc.

To watch the guy play "Battery" and not double kick it was very disappointing.

War

So why the f¤%& don't they go back to Denmark to work with Flemming?
Probably the only guy on the planet right now who has the balls to tell the guys their songs stink and their performance isn't even on par with any ol' metallica coverband south of the north pole...

I mean, we all saw this coming; total and utter failure...the idea of having Rick Rubin's ( who in my book is a great producer) hands off production style in stead of Bob "the master of cut and paste" Rocks (who's also a great producer) pampering would be a disaster for a band who's drummer can't play straight 4/4 and make it groove... Anyone who saw "Some kind of monster" knows that dropping Bob is equivalent to running a kindergarten with no supervision; allowing the two most snotty kids on the face of the earth to rule the grounds...

Leaving it to the band to get their shit together and deliver a kick ass album worked like a charm with Red hot chili peppers, Slayer, Dixie Chicks etc... But with a band that's about as inspired and inspiring as drinking warm orange juice... Hmmmm.... Well...

just my 2c

Morten

[lematrix]

Originally Posted by warhead

Have you ever heard "Ride The Lightning"?

Those cats could play back in the day.

Hello Warren,

yes, you´re right, they could play.
I see them next week here live in Berlin, i´m very excited ´bout that.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by lematrix

Hello Warren,

yes, you´re right, they could play.
I see them next week here live in Berlin, i´m very excited ´bout that.

Listen for very lazy footwork by Lars, and lots of cheats in general.

Kirk and James still seem to do their best at bringing the most full guitar sounds to the game, even live. Hetfield is still a very decent live vocalist, although I like old "barking" Hetfield and not this new stuff.

Trujillo I would like to see with them, he seems very energetic and we know the guy can play.

War