Snare Mic. Sm57 what else?
TheSweetener
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#1
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Thread Starter
Snare Mic. Sm57 what else?

I'm mainly doing harder rock music. I'm still looking for a snare mic that is "faster" and has more hi end than a 57. Of course it should be able to handle high SPL and should also like to be hit by a drummer sometimes.

What mics do you use on top of the snare?

What about the Audix mics? Especially the D1. Has anyone used it?

Thanks in advance.
#2
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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De chromium cob's Avatar
 

Km-84, Km-184, AKG 451.... except the getting hit by the drummer part.
#3
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Micgiver's Avatar
 

I was reading that nick mason from floyd uses the Sennheiser e series mike that is the equivalent to the 57. it has a higher peak. so you get a little more bite. Maybe?
-Mac
TheSweetener
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11th April 2005
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micgiver
I was reading that nick mason from floyd uses the Sennheiser e series mike that is the equivalent to the 57. it has a higher peak. so you get a little more bite. Maybe?
-Mac
Do you mean the E903? Have you tried it?
TheSweetener
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#5
11th April 2005
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by De chromium cob
Km-84, Km-184, AKG 451.... except the getting hit by the drummer part.
I don't think the 451 can handle the high SPL even with the 10db pad.
#6
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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carlsaff's Avatar
 

The Beyer M201 sounds great on most snares.

The Sennheiser MD421 can sound great on larger snares.
Lowdbrent
#7
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Lowdbrent
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I have the 903 and have used it on snare. I like it way more than a 57! You can hear it on snare and a Mesa 4x12 cab in the MP3 samples at:

http://www.projectdamagecontrol.com/audio.html

I used the whole new e series on drum as well.
TheSweetener
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#8
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlsaff
The Beyer M201 sounds great on most snares.
How is the M201 compared to a 57?
#9
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener
How is the M201 compared to a 57?
The SM-57 sounds a bit boxy to my ears, whereas the M201 sounds much more open (with a good pre). They differ in lots of subtle ways, but the two things that I notice most are:

1) The high-end from the M201 compares favorably to that of a condenser. The 57... not so much.
2) The M201 captures attack transients very faithfully. The 57... not so much.
#10
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Gear nut
 

I quit using a 57 several years ago when I started using an Audix D1. I haven't been dissappointed whatsoever.
TheSweetener
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#11
11th April 2005
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscavell
I quit using a 57 several years ago when I started using an Audix D1. I haven't been dissappointed whatsoever.
What about the D1 sound compared to a 57?

Thanks for all the answers by the way. thumbsup
#12
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener
How is the M201 compared to a 57?
The M201 has a smoother sound to my ears, the hi-hat spill seems to be more usable than with the 57, depends on the drummer/kit/room of course...
The 201 also takes EQ better in the mix, IMO.

Having said that, I'm on a big 57 kick right now, having tracked acoustic guitars for a few days where almost with every song we ended up using a single 57 thru a TG-2 or UA6176 pre. It's friggin' amazing how good the 57 sounds, so I'll definitely try the 57 again on snare for the next drum session. Recently I kept going for the 201 immedeately...

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch
#13
11th April 2005
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Another vote for M201 here.
I've heard about MD441 also, never tried it though.

If you move to the High End forum surely you would find some rich guys willing to put a $8,000 U47, or something like that, on it. dfegad
I hate being poor!

Insomnio
#14
11th April 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker
The M201 has a smoother sound to my ears, the hi-hat spill seems to be more usable than with the 57, depends on the drummer/kit/room of course...
The 201 also takes EQ better in the mix, IMO.

Having said that, I'm on a big 57 kick right now, having tracked acoustic guitars for a few days where almost with every song we ended up using a single 57 thru a TG-2 or UA6176 pre. It's friggin' amazing how good the 57 sounds, so I'll definitely try the 57 again on snare for the next drum session. Recently I kept going for the 201 immedeately...

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch
Where do you point the 57 in an acoustic guitar to? How do you compare the sound to a conderser?
Sorry for the thead hijacking! I'm verry curious.
I
#15
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Gear interested
 

I like the Josephson e22s.
We had a drummer hit it a few times. the drummer broke his stick but the
mic was fine.
#16
11th April 2005
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cdog's Avatar
I like an old school 70s fatback sound - I go fo the Senn MD 421 with no roll off.

Its both bassier and brighter than a 57, but maybe too thick for some styles (funk/jazz etc). Think Dire Straits, Tom Petty - thats my bread n butter snare sound.
#17
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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warhead's Avatar
 

I like the sort of "softening" effect of the SM57 on snare, it's a bit slow for sure but it's pleasing in my experience. I just think it fits snare like a glove in most cases.

I also really like the 57 REAL close to the head for picking up ring (I'm talking like 1/4" or so), but I also find the E/V ND468 hypercardioid does this well with practically zero bleed from the rest of the kit.

I've never been a fan of condensors on snare top but that's just me.

The Beyer is a good recommendation.

War
#18
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio
Another vote for M201 here.
I've heard about MD441 also, never tried it though.
I had a 441 for a while. Tried it on the snare and it just didn't floor me, not for that much money, anyway. Been using an SM57 since then.

But I just got a great deal on an M201, it is in the mail, now. thumbsup
#19
11th April 2005
Old 11th April 2005
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This thread is rather timely for me. I just ordered an Audix i5 and a Sennheiser e604 (upon Nathan's recommendation). They should both arrive later this week and I plan to do some comparisons with them through either a ME1NV or an API 3124+ on both snare and guitar. In the past I have tried the following on snares with varying results:

SM57--we all know the sound
SM57 with transformer ripped out--bigger low end and more open, smoother high end than stock, much less output
Shure 545 Unidyne III--didn't cut like a regular 57
Oktava MC012 with pad--used this on a jazz session with brushes once
Beyer Soundstar MKII M400--much fuller than a 57, nice high end, with nicer bleed from hi-hat and kick
Sennheiser e609s--fuller in the bottom end than a 57, with a more pleasing and better placed midrange boost, good rejection of hi-hat due to super cardioid pattern
Radio Shack 330-3032--looks like a Sennheiser e604, no low end to speak of, broad midrange hump, hyper cardioid pickup...sounds weird soloed but great in the mix; you can really get this mic close to the drum and not have the low end be out of control, it's pre-EQ'd.

Lately I've been choosing either the modded 57 or the Sennheiser e609s, typically through my API or Vintech 1272 preamps. I'll have to let everyone know how the Audix and the e604 stack up.

Brad
#20
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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Gear addict
 

senn e604 is superior imo.
#21
12th April 2005
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

TLM 103



not just a vocal mic


Jason
#22
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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philip's Avatar
 

another vote for e 903
#23
12th April 2005
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Quote:
SM57 with transformer ripped out--bigger low end and more open, smoother high end than stock, much less output
Okay I read about how to do this a year or so ago here at GS but damned if I can find the thread. Jim Williams talked about it in a few other threads as well.

So how the hell do you do this? Figure I can spare a 57 or a 58 for it to check it out. And how the hell do you get the mic body open in the first place?
#24
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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Riad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin
TLM 103



not just a vocal mic


Jason
I use the TLM-103 under the snare and route it into my 737, reverse the phase and keep the 57 on top.

#25
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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Brad McGowan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Okay I read about how to do this a year or so ago here at GS but damned if I can find the thread. Jim Williams talked about it in a few other threads as well.

So how the hell do you do this? Figure I can spare a 57 or a 58 for it to check it out. And how the hell do you get the mic body open in the first place?
I'm going to try and do this from memory--it was a while ago. Unscrew the mic body. Desolder the wires going to the capsule. Unscrew the set screw that holds in the connector at the base of the body. Desolder those wires too. Set the connector and capsule aside. Now get out your biggest, baddest screwdriver, pick, drill, favorite implement of destruction, etc. Your goal is to get out the transformer and all the epoxy. Forget about getting it out in one piece. You're goal is to destroy it. It took me about 40 minutes. After working at it for 20 minutes (trying to be nice and careful), I started to take it personally and get frustrated. That's when i got out a big hammer and started driving a large flathead screwdriver into the f*cker. It wasn't easy, but I prevailed in the end. Once you finish the demolition you basically solder some wires from the connector back to the capsule (I hope you wrote down which contact was which so that your mic is not wired out of phase!). Pop the connector back in and screw the thing together. Voila--transformerless SM57.

Enjoy!
Brad
#26
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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gear is cool's Avatar
 

i've been digging the shure sm7b on snare...
it not as hyped in the mids as the 57,
plus it looks cool...
#27
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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414 works for top heavy snare, and gives lots of ring, too... just keep that -20 pad on.
#28
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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nothing spectacular here :

451 , 414 , 184 , 421 , 57 , 58 ...

i like the 451 sm 57 combo for the top... actually hate the ~200 hz hell on the 57 ... well prolly i love it again ... tomorrow
#29
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
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not_so_new's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan
I'm going to try and do this from memory--it was a while ago. Unscrew the mic body. Desolder the wires going to the capsule. Unscrew the set screw that holds in the connector at the base of the body. Desolder those wires too. Set the connector and capsule aside. Now get out your biggest, baddest screwdriver, pick, drill, favorite implement of destruction, etc. Your goal is to get out the transformer and all the epoxy. Forget about getting it out in one piece. You're goal is to destroy it. It took me about 40 minutes. After working at it for 20 minutes (trying to be nice and careful), I started to take it personally and get frustrated. That's when i got out a big hammer and started driving a large flathead screwdriver into the f*cker. It wasn't easy, but I prevailed in the end. Once you finish the demolition you basically solder some wires from the connector back to the capsule (I hope you wrote down which contact was which so that your mic is not wired out of phase!). Pop the connector back in and screw the thing together. Voila--transformerless SM57.

Enjoy!
Brad
Very cool thanks..

thumbsup

I found this over at PSW and I thought it might help if anyone is interested, sorry to get off topic...

Quote:
You not need to remove the transformer, disconnect only the green and yellow cable on the cardridge and the blue and red from the XLR connector.
Connect two new cables that you can pass the side of the transformer, connect the cartridge coded terminal (former green cable) to XLR pin 2 and the other terminal to XLR pin 3.
Don`t disconnect the cable from the centre terminal and XLR pin 1, this is for grounding the body and the cardridge.

The orginal SM-57 transformer have approx. +12 dB step up with 1 kohm secondary load, so you get 12 dB less output level if you bypass the transformer.

BTW, the frequency response on the orginal tansformer is quite good, 10 Hz to 50 kHz between the -3 dB points, but a bigger transformer that can handle more level would be nice.
Maybe you can find a good lardge step-up transformer for MC/moving coil pickups (for record players) that is usable for 10 ohms up to some hundred ohms.(mostly they have a lot higher impedance on the primary)
In the 1970`s there was also some good discrete active MC-pickup preamplifers, and maybe it can be worth to test.
#30
12th April 2005
Old 12th April 2005
  #30
Gear Head
 

SM81 on the shell. Sometimes a 57 on the top, occasionally a 414 on the bottom, mostly an SM81 on the shell.
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