David Bowie "Heroes" -- how did they get that guitar drone?

[CZ101]

ok -- so I heard Heroes recently and the song itself has that elongated guitar sound that is just such sonic honey...

Anybody have any insight as far as how that sound was realized? I'm not even sure it's guitar, to be honest.. Anyway -- it has this kind of Kevin Shields silkyness (predating MBV of course..)

Do any of you ever layer keyboards and guitar together?

Paul

[David R.]

Fripp. Eno and Fripp. Eno Ebow and Fripp (oh my)
Eno Ebow and Fripp (oh my)














It's been a long day.

[Saucyjack]

Pretty sure that's an ebow(Fripp)
Maybe some synths in there too.

[orange]

I think it's robert fripp with an two tape recorders and his 'sound-on-sound' tape loop system 'Frippertronics' or something. It might even be an ebow...in any event you can do a reasonable impression by using an ebow - which is a vibrating square-wave inductor (or something) that make the string vibrate when you hold it over it. Used by Big Country IIRC.

www.ebow.com

they're cheap and quite good fun


si

[Ruudman]

Here are the E-bow version.

Fripps version, apparently, was a Les Paul, to Hiwatt amp, Marshall cab;
and solid finger work! No E-bow.


ruudman

[supaheef]

There was no ebow!

Fripp would mark on the floor how far away from his amp he would need to be to get a certain note to feedback. 'A' might be 3 feet, 'G' might be 3 and a half (I have no idea if this is right, i haven't measured it myself. He would then move back and forth to change the note. Eno was also running the guitar sound (post amp i imagine) through hs EMS VCS3 synth to give it the throbbing warbles. Three takes, bounced to one, and your done! Only in Germany...

When is someone going to make a plugin of the VSC3? I know I can't afford one, I'm not even sure I could drive one.

sh.

[Musiclab]

Its Robert Fripp playing a Les Paul Custom probably using I think a Burns Buzzaround Fuzz box. He might have been playing a Hiwatt, if he was, he was probably using Hiwatt cabinets since thats what he used in King Crimson during that period. The story is after he disbanded crimso, he didnt play for a few years, eno called him to play on the session and thats what he came up with.
I don't think they used the vcs3 on the guitar. That sound is pretty much what Bob Fripp was making with the 70's versions of King Crimson. The tape loop thing was very different, although he used the Les Paul and the fuzz box along with 2 revox decks for that. It sure is a cool part on that Heroes track. I've gotten pretty close to that sound w my Les Paul and a Big Muff

[SiliconAudioLab]

Or a sustaniac pick-up!

[Berolzheimer]

Yep, classic Fripp. Part of how he gets that sound is that he uses a wah wah pedal pulled all the way back to filter out the highs from the guitar before it hits the distortion pedal. Keeps the hi harmonics of the instrument from clashing with the high harmonics created by the distortion.

[Yutaka]

Originally Posted by SiliconAudioLab

Or a sustaniac pick-up!

I have been curious about sustaniac for years... Could you tell me how well it works? I have been playing around with e-bow plus, but I don't like the fact I can only play one string at a time, and I can't really do whammy bar thing unless I play open strings.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

Yep, classic Fripp. Part of how he gets that sound is that he uses a wah wah pedal pulled all the way back to filter out the highs from the guitar before it hits the distortion pedal. Keeps the hi harmonics of the instrument from clashing with the high harmonics created by the distortion.

It's really not, its just a Les Paul neck pickup and a fuzz box If you listen to 70's crimso you'll hear what fripp does with the wah, its a way different tone

[Ruudman]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

It's really not, its just a Les Paul neck pickup and a fuzz box If you listen to 70's crimso you'll hear what fripp does with the wah, its a way different tone

Agree.



ruudman

[SiliconAudioLab]

It uses a custom bridge pickup to receive the signal then drive the magnet induction in the custom 2 dual pole system Vertical Magnet sticks neck pickup.

Two 9V batteries vibrates all the strings. The 1/4 jack when inserted (and when the switch is on) turns the whole thing on.

For example you plug a 1/4" jack into guitar and don't plug into ANY AMP (for this example) sit the guitar down on the stand - the strings begin ON THEIR OWN to go "VVVvvvvvvvvvvvvv":

YOU CAN HEAR THE STRINGS VIBRATE ACCROSS THE ROOM - NO AMP INVOLVED - NO FUZZ - JUST STRINGS - VERY COOL!

There's also a setting to enable higher octave harmonics (5ths etc..) like feedback on an amp does and it's completely controllable. Also there's another setting for backing the induction (or string vibration) down a bit when playing live in front of many stacks of amps.

By toggling the mini toggle in & out of harmonics mode you get EXACTLY the Heros effect.

Yes the bridge pickup rocks and can knocked out of phase (single coil) too.

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

It's really not, its just a Les Paul neck pickup and a fuzz box If you listen to 70's crimso you'll hear what fripp does with the wah, its a way different tone

What I described is what I saw him do at a Frippertronics performance at a record store in Chicago in 1979. I was less than 10 feet away, and he did have that classic Fripp tone like in Heroes. I believe the distortion pedal he was using was a FuzzFace, although I've heard that he had these modified. From what I remember he was playing a black Les Paul. No e-bow either, I don't think they were invented yet.

BTW here's an interesting link, I think they even have a recording of the show I attended- though I don't remember which record store I was at.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~frippertronics/Fripp-Solo.htm

Silicon, I belive what you're describing is the sustainiac, Which I don't think he uses, or was using then at least.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by SiliconAudioLab

Or a sustaniac pick-up!

Like I said

[Berolzheimer]

OTOH, Althogh I've heard of the sustainiac, I'd never heard it described in detail.....

You certainly make me want to try one.

[Berolzheimer]

And then again, there's the Godley & Creme Gizmotron.......

Anyone out there besides me ever hear "Consequences"?

[supaheef]

Check out Sound on Sound October 2004, a complete run through of how Visconti recorded Heroes, with very cool insights into how the lyrics came together (and what part Visconti played!) and of course, the three mic gated-vocal trick. Plus the measured-feedback guitar technique that Fripp used.

One of the best 'how-it-went-down's ever.

Bowie + Visconti + Eno + Fripp = cool tunes. I was always good at maths!

sh.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

OTOH, Althogh I've heard of the sustainiac, I'd never heard it described in detail.....

You certainly make me want to try one.

I'll patch it directly into my laptop COMPLETELY DRY so you guitar types (like me) will be able to imagine and interpolate how it will sound once through your favorite amp.

I'll post a wav or MP3 in a bit.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

What I described is what I saw him do at a Frippertronics performance at a record store in Chicago in 1979. I was less than 10 feet away, and he did have that classic Fripp tone like in Heroes. I believe the distortion pedal he was using was a FuzzFace, although I've heard that he had these modified. From what I remember he was playing a black Les Paul. No e-bow either, I don't think they were invented yet.

BTW here's an interesting link, I think they even have a recording of the show I attended- though I don't remember which record store I was at.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~frippertronics/Fripp-Solo.htm

Silicon, I belive what you're describing is the sustainiac, Which I don't think he uses, or was using then at least.

While RF did use a wah pedal and a fuzz tone,definetly no sustainiac, the heroes sound is not the wah. Once you engage the wah the filter does a way different thing. He did an interverview around that time describing that session and his solo record
Back in those day I was a huge crimso & Bob Fripp fan. To this day I still can play quite a few cuts from the the 69-74 versions of crimso. I saw the Islands band
play at the academy of music in NY, the larks tongue band play at The Felt Forum, and Central park several times, including the very last show that version of crimso ever played. I was also at a frippertronics show at the kitchen in NY back then.
Also about ten feet away and I got a chance to talk to him. Very strange but polite guy, That band and that music was it for me. I still have the black Les Paul custom
and buy their new stuff but the magic for me was what they were doing back then.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

What I described is what I saw him do at a Frippertronics performance at a record store in Chicago in 1979. I was less than 10 feet away, and he did have that classic Fripp tone like in Heroes. I believe the distortion pedal he was using was a FuzzFace, although I've heard that he had these modified. From what I remember he was playing a black Les Paul. No e-bow either, I don't think they were invented yet.

BTW here's an interesting link, I think they even have a recording of the show I attended- though I don't remember which record store I was at.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~frippertronics/Fripp-Solo.htm

Silicon, I belive what you're describing is the sustainiac, Which I don't think he uses, or was using then at least.

While RF did use a wah pedal and a fuzz tone, definetly no sustainiac, the heroes sound is not the wah. Its the neck pickup and fuzz box. Once you engage the wah the filter does a way different thing. He did an interverview around that time describing that session and his solo record
Back in those days I was a huge crimso & Bob Fripp fan. To this day I still can play quite a few cuts from the the 69-74 versions of crimso. I saw the Islands band
play at the academy of music in NY, the larks tongue band play at The Felt Forum, and Central park several times, including the very last show that version of crimso ever played. I was also at a frippertronics show at the kitchen in NY back then.
Also very close, and I got a chance to talk to him. Very strange but polite guy, That band and that music was it for me. I still have the black Les Paul custom
and buy their new stuff but the magic for me was what they were doing back then.

[CZ101]

ahh.. shoulda known that was Fripp with Eno producing --

Evening Star and No Pussy Footing are some of my favorite records ever...

Paul

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by CZ101

ahh.. shoulda known that was Fripp with Eno producing --

Evening Star and No Pussy Footing are some of my favorite records ever...

Paul

Me too.

[maxim]

i would guess the highs were rolled off on the guitar

i don't know if that's what fripp did, but that's what i'd do if i was trying to recreate that sound (and i do)

plus neck pickup, of course

there's a purist joy about getting sustain without e-bows or other gadgets

it's interesting about different distances for different notes (sounds feasible, gotta try it)

a good trick someone showed me once is, once you've got the feedback singing, flick the pickup swith back and forth, makes for an interesting warble, without losing the sound

[SiliconAudioLab]

Here's a REAL quick take from my Gibson '62 SG;

Guitar-----into----->Laptop. That's it.

No other processing (other than the sustainiac):

http://www.siliconaudiolabs.com/sounds/Sustainiac.mp3

[Yutaka]

Thank you so much for taking the time to make an mp3! It's really cool!!

Is it electro-magnetic (neck pickup driver), or electro-acoustic one (clamp on the head) you have??

[SiliconAudioLab]

No clamp.

The bridge pick-up pick-ups the signal and sends it to the transducer neck pick-up (neck pick-up does not pass any audio - it's job is to vibrate all the strings).

The bridge pick-up sends a (syncronized signal which is then pulsed by the magnetic field in the neck pick up, and that makes all the strings vibrate.

2 9V batteries under what was once the middle SG pick-up (now gone w/ 2 batteries in that cavity supply power.

Remember it's all crystal clean no amp, no pre, no gain, no nothing just SG going into Logic/Laptop using 1/4" ~>1/8" jacks.

Oohhh I feel so naked

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by maxim

ere's a purist joy about getting sustain without e-bows or other gadgets

it's interesting about different distances for different notes (sounds feasible, gotta try it)

It's Adrian Belew, not Fripp, who used to mark the spots on the stage where he had to stand to get certain notes to feedback- different, of course, in each venue. Fripp always sits when he plays- I doubt he's ever owned a giutar strap.

Then again I never saw KC in the 60's or early 70's, so someone may have to coorect me.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

It's Adrian Belew, not Fripp, who used to mark the spots on the stage where he had to stand to get certain notes to feedback- different, of course, in each venue. Fripp always sits when he plays- I doubt he's ever owned a giutar strap.

Then again I never saw KC in the 60's or early 70's, so someone may have to coorect me.

RF has always sat. His sound was much more about sustain rather than feedback.
Your right about Adrian Belew.