Mix bus compressors: SSL, Smart C2, etc...

[bionicears]

I've been on a quest to find a mix compressor (mostly rock material). Over the past week I've tried:

API 2500--very good; great mid range punch. No major complaints.

Drawmer 1968--pretty good. Does the job. I actually bought this last week before I tried some of the others. I may keep it as it's flexible as a dual mono unit for tracking too.

Manley Vari Mu--great top end (smooth). Didn't like the bottom end as much--like many of these, I found that you can't just strap it on at the end of the mix--better to mix into it. No sidechain (?). Damn this thing gets hot!

SSL FX G384--This may be what I was looking for. Good top end (liked it better than the API), good punch and it has a sidechain which was useful.

So, word is the new G Series is the same as the G384. I'm interested in the C2 b/c it can be used dual mono. plus it has the Crunch button. But how does it sound next to the SSL?

Has anyone compared the new SSL G Series stereo comp to the Smart C2?

[ron florentine]

I havent compared the two.......I own a smart c2 and really like it for rock and alternative music on the two.......i did a lot of research on the c2 before buying and from what i remeber most saying about the two were...that they were very similar sounding but the c2 had a slightly higher fi sound and was more versatle with the crunch button and the dual mono mode....hope this helps.

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

[ziegenh5]

You can't go wrong with the old SSL GFX 384 or the Smart C1/C2. The SSL has the autofade which I still am in love with. The new SSL is not the same as the old.
Sean

[MarkS]

keep the 1969 and when you get the c2 just try feediung the outs of the c2 into the drawmer. a friend of mine lend me his c2 unit and i tested that, and was just raving about the punch. yeah yeah yeah, have both. great things !

[bionicears]

Thanks for the input.

Just did some more searching here and found the debate: old SSL 384 v. new G series Xlogix. Interesting--some say they sound different--SSL says they are the same, just different look. Hmmmm...

I'm going to see if I can A/B/C the G384, new G series and C2...more fun!

Before I sell the 1968 I'll try using it in line--but it would have to really make my jaw drop. Just listening to the mixes with the SSL and I'm very happy--prefer them to the API mixes.

[davemc]

Also look and see if you can try a Pendulum ES-8.
I like mine better then the 1969 I have..
A SSL or Smart would be nice.. Different sounds

[SnakeCained]

I took part in the previous forum debate re old 384 vs new. I have now A/b these units and am quite frankly surprised that SSL say they sound the same. This is not the case IMHO. The new one sounds a bit brighter maybe even mildy brittle. The old one is the bomb! Maybe because the parts have aged?

[Big Bad Bill]

man, for rock stuff you should check out a pair of EAR660's. They glue the bottom end together like nothing i've heard.

i've owned a pair for 10 years now and they've pretty much been patched across my master bus ever since i got them. except when i record vocals through one of them, which they also sound fantastic on.

BBB

[brownmouse]

Originally Posted by davemc

Also look and see if you can try a Pendulum ES-8.
Different sounds

i would second this. i really like my es-8 on the 2 buss. its definitely worth a listen.
joshua

[Darius van H]

Another great compressor to check out for rock is the Cranesong Hedd.

[thethrillfactor]

Focusrite Blue 230 or old Red 3.

The old G384 in my opinion is the best of the SSL outboard comps(including the Smart) for the mixbuss.

[krid]

thethrillfactor, is there a big difference between the old and new Red 3 ?

I tried one of the new Red 3 and I wasn't impressed at all ...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by krid

thethrillfactor, is there a big difference between the old and new Red 3 ?

I tried one of the new Red 3 and I wasn't impressed at all ...

The older one's have transformers on the inputs and outputs.

The newer one's only on the outputs.

Basically the Blue 230 is the older Red 3 with all of the mods and some stepped controls for repeatable settings(for broadcast).

Do the transformers make a difference?

Hell yeah.

[Leblon]

I'd like to hear something about this... http://www.tegeler-audio-manufaktur....compressor.php ...

[I Lurk]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

Another great compressor to check out for rock is the Cranesong Hedd.

You do mean the Cranesong STC-8 ?

The Hedd is not by all mean a compressor

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by Leblon

I'd like to hear something about this... http://www.tegeler-audio-manufaktur....compressor.php ...

Looks like vaporware to me...

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by I Lurk

You do mean the Cranesong STC-8 ?

The Hedd is not by all mean a compressor

No, i meant the Hedd.

[PhilC]

Do all 230's have the transformers? I know you had yours modded so you could switch them in and out, right?

My current favorite for 2 buss is the mastering Chandler LTD-2's.

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

The older one's have transformers on the inputs and outputs.

The newer one's only on the outputs.

Basically the Blue 230 is the older Red 3 with all of the mods and some stepped controls for repeatable settings(for broadcast).

Do the transformers make a difference?

Hell yeah.

[cdog]

As posted by Paul Wolff (emphasis added):

"2500 facts
The 2500 is designed to make things sound better. Three big differences between it and the Alan Smart is the Thrust, Variable Linking, and the OLD/NEW modes.

Since these are all on seperate switches, they are resettable for future setups, which makes then usable. The AS is basically an SSL type feed forward compressor with a over-compression mode that goes beyond total limit, with what appears to be a gradual ratio up to that point so it doesn't just come on.

The 2500 was designed by me specifically to assist the mixer and while compressing, it makes it not sound compressed.....

With the SOFT knee setting, MED thrust and OLD, fast attacks and releases will sound great WITHOUT killing the mix. This is NO SHIT. Try it like you are trying to show how bad a compressor can sound, fast in fast out 10:1 ratio, etc. You will be shocked.

The theory behind the THRUST is very simple. If you look at a music signal on a scope, you will see all low end and little bits of high end travelling on the huge low waveform. BUT, this is not what you hear. If you listen to the music, it all sounds even. The THRUST filter is before the RMS detector and in the LOUD mode, it is the inverse of the pink noise curve, 3 dB/oct. This transforms the signal going into the RMS detector into what is called an EQUAL ENERGY PER OCTAVE signal instead of the tilted low end heavy singal. The MED setting is like the full LOUD one, but has a flat area in the middle frequencies. The Distressor has a high pass filter setting that is very similar and that is why so many people like both. This THRUST filter is what makes the PARAGON II consoles sound so good, as they hads a patent on it for 10 years.


Turn it up, set it like you hate the mix and what you hear will not sound like the settings.

Try this setting:

thresh around -4
attack- adjust for the snare snap amount
ratio- 10 to 1 YES
release- 11 oclock
Thrust- LOUD or MED
Knee-SOFT
OLD mode
Link- 70%

Auto gain makeup switch in the OUT position

Don't be afraid to push it hard. Don't pussy out with 3 or 4 dB of compression.

This works for anything that is up tempo. Not for classical

If that doesn't kick your ass, maybe Muzak would be a better choice...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by PhilC

Do all 230's have the transformers? I know you had yours modded so you could switch them in and out, right?

My current favorite for 2 buss is the mastering Chandler LTD-2's.

The older one's all did.

The newer one's don't have any.

Yeah i actually ended up not doing the mod and i just bought another Red 3 which i ended up selling anyway.

I know of a couple people that did the mod.

I wasn't enamored at all with the LTD-2 when i had it to try out.

It just lacked something that the 2254 has.

It also sounds smaller.

[The MPCist]

The STC8 is great. I usually have either that or the C2 on the mix buss. The STC is pretty transparent for ballads whereas I use the C2 for more punchy mixes...

[ctmartin]

A little while back "syra" and I were close-listening to that shootout disc of many different comps on the mix buss... thanx syra... I don't have a huge budget for gear purchases, so the object was something with versatility -- something we could use on individual tracks or over the the mix buss. We went for the C2, and I definitely don't regret it... can't speak for the other SSL's, haven't tried them, sorry...

We focus on modern rock & pop/alt-pop here... C2 gave it that "radio-ready" sheen, and the compression was not too noticable...

While great as-is for recalls, my only wish about the C2 would be more fine gradations in ratio, attack & release.

But, when the budget permits, I'm DEFINITELY getting a couple Atomic Squeezeboxes... that seemed to blow the doors off almost everything else in terms of the punch, fatness, and its "I can't really hear compression" quality. STC-8 was very nice too.

my 2c...

[PhilC]

So there's no new focusrite with the transformers. Nice.

No, it doesn't sound just like a 2254. Personal opinion, I actually like it better for all around use. To me, it's more middle ground between the 2254 beef and the 2264 neutrality. A studio I work in a lot has a Fred Hill modified 2254. I had 33314's and a pair of 2264's. I wasn't able to A/B the LTD-2's with the 2264 as I stupidly sold those a while ago, but I was the 2254 and 33314's. Not a carbon copy of either. More versatile than either (even with the Fred Hill mods.)So if you were expecting it to take the 2254's our of the rack, I can see you not being enamored. Judged on it's own, however, I dig it! If you're a true gearslutz, you'd need all 3!

Phil

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

The older one's all did.

The newer one's don't have any.

Yeah i actually ended up not doing the mod and i just bought another Red 3 which i ended up selling anyway.

I know of a couple people that did the mod.

I wasn't enamored at all with the LTD-2 when i had it to try out.

It just lacked something that the 2254 has.

It also sounds smaller.

[TML]

Funny...used the ssl 384 on kik today....it kills the distressor. Don't get me wrong....everything has a place....but I'm drifting away from the unit on alot of things......the 384 on the 2 buss...rocks......period.....

[I Lurk]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

No, i meant the Hedd.

I was afraid you would say that

It's to me, a bit of a smartass answer (no offense, I'm a smartass myself)

I mean, Dude is asking for a buss compressor, and apparently is not as seasoned as I would expect you to be (you work in a very serious shop, I understand)

You know better than me that tape compression is not cutting it in EVERY application and that sometimes, a more versatile unit could help better. I'm not saying that a Hedd alone is not doing the trick in some occasions, and especially if you KNOW how to handle the mix with it alone, but I would have suggested something more easy to handle casually like the C2 or SSL comp

Beside, if it's tape compression you would advise for him, why not asking him to buy a used tape machine ?

Now I'm kidding

best

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by I Lurk

I was afraid you would say that

It's to me, a bit of a smartass answer (no offense, I'm a smartass myself)

I mean, Dude is asking for a buss compressor, and apparently is not as seasoned as I would expect you to be (you work in a very serious shop, I understand)

You know better than me that tape compression is not cutting it in EVERY application and that sometimes, a more versatile unit could help better. I'm not saying that a Hedd alone is not doing the trick in some occasions, and especially if you KNOW how to handle the mix with it alone, but I would have suggested something more easy to handle casually like the C2 or SSL comp

Beside, if it's tape compression you would advise for him, why not asking him to buy a used tape machine ?

Now I'm kidding

best

You're right!...

[bionicears]

Well, I ordered the Smart C2 today. Should have it early next week. Will do some comparisons with my 1968 and a friends API. May even rent the 384 again. Would be nice to have API and 1968 and C2 and ____, etc, but...

I'm taking the advice that the G384 and the new Xlogic Gseries may not sound the same. Even though I called SSL today and they say otherwise.

I'll still keep an eye out for a used 384, but hopefully the C2 will work out!

Thanks!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by PhilC

So there's no new focusrite with the transformers. Nice.

No, it doesn't sound just like a 2254. Personal opinion, I actually like it better for all around use. To me, it's more middle ground between the 2254 beef and the 2264 neutrality. A studio I work in a lot has a Fred Hill modified 2254. I had 33314's and a pair of 2264's. I wasn't able to A/B the LTD-2's with the 2264 as I stupidly sold those a while ago, but I was the 2254 and 33314's. Not a carbon copy of either. More versatile than either (even with the Fred Hill mods.)So if you were expecting it to take the 2254's our of the rack, I can see you not being enamored. Judged on it's own, however, I dig it! If you're a true gearslutz, you'd need all 3!

Phil

I looked at the unit on its own merit and felt i wasn't crazy about its sound.

The other guys i compared it with were looking for a Neve comp substitute.

Neither of us liked it.

I dug the TG-1 more.

I thought it was one trick pony, but since renting it a couple of times i now see things i can do with it that are leading me to picking one up this year.

We did like the LTD-1.

I liked it enough to recommend it(which i have here before).

They liked it enough that they each bought one.

[jho]

Originally Posted by cdog

As posted by Paul Wolff (emphasis added):

"2500 facts
The 2500 is designed to make things sound better. Three big differences between it and the Alan Smart is the Thrust, Variable Linking, and the OLD/NEW modes.

Since these are all on seperate switches, they are resettable for future setups, which makes then usable. The AS is basically an SSL type feed forward compressor with a over-compression mode that goes beyond total limit, with what appears to be a gradual ratio up to that point so it doesn't just come on.

The 2500 was designed by me specifically to assist the mixer and while compressing, it makes it not sound compressed.....

With the SOFT knee setting, MED thrust and OLD, fast attacks and releases will sound great WITHOUT killing the mix. This is NO SHIT. Try it like you are trying to show how bad a compressor can sound, fast in fast out 10:1 ratio, etc. You will be shocked.

The theory behind the THRUST is very simple. If you look at a music signal on a scope, you will see all low end and little bits of high end travelling on the huge low waveform. BUT, this is not what you hear. If you listen to the music, it all sounds even. The THRUST filter is before the RMS detector and in the LOUD mode, it is the inverse of the pink noise curve, 3 dB/oct. This transforms the signal going into the RMS detector into what is called an EQUAL ENERGY PER OCTAVE signal instead of the tilted low end heavy singal. The MED setting is like the full LOUD one, but has a flat area in the middle frequencies. The Distressor has a high pass filter setting that is very similar and that is why so many people like both. This THRUST filter is what makes the PARAGON II consoles sound so good, as they hads a patent on it for 10 years.


Turn it up, set it like you hate the mix and what you hear will not sound like the settings.

Try this setting:

thresh around -4
attack- adjust for the snare snap amount
ratio- 10 to 1 YES
release- 11 oclock
Thrust- LOUD or MED
Knee-SOFT
OLD mode
Link- 70%

Auto gain makeup switch in the OUT position

Don't be afraid to push it hard. Don't pussy out with 3 or 4 dB of compression.

This works for anything that is up tempo. Not for classical

If that doesn't kick your ass, maybe Muzak would be a better choice...

I tried using the API like this for 3 mixes on the last record I did. Took twice as long I think to mix them. Reason being it make everything like a mushroom. If you bring up anything too much it kills other things, you'll be chasing your tail. Just my experience. I am happy with the results, but it was more challenging. I ended up using the 1968, STC-8 and C2 for the rest of the record's 2 buss comps.

My preferred method is still individual and sub group buss compression, with a wee bit of 2 buss compression when everything is working well for the final glue. Something else I've been playing with is going out of the C2 or STC-8 into the FATSO with warmth on 1 in the buss setting mode, so it "sometimes" makes the compressor light up but mostly not working it. Smooths out digital highs.

[I Lurk]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

You're right!...

On some rare ocasion, yes

but I can relate to your enthousiasm about the Hedd, it's an amazing box !

like everything Dave Hill crafts

best to you

hope we'll meet one day at Wissellord