Proof that a lot of us are wrong.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

It's an extremely listenable, poppy tune. And, as previously mentioned, I Wanna Hold Your Hand is in no way a better tune, and I say that as a huge Beatles fan. They are just from different eras. If I Wanna Hold Your Hand had been done by a one hit wonder, it would have come and gone as quickly as this one probably will. It only gained classic status because of what The Beatles became after the fact.

I don't know. Not to me. I recently taught I Want To Hold Your Hand to a beginning guitar student. Great melody. You can sing it with absolutely no accompaniment and it works. You can sing it with only a guitar and it works. You can play it fast. You can play it exceedingly slow and it works really, really well. Musically it's extremely well constructed. It doesn't rely on the production to sell it as a song. The song stands on it's own.

The Katy Perry songs are well constructed pop songs that, to me, bare little comparison to The Beatles, or at least to I Want and She Loves You and a host of other early sides.

Eras shouldn't really be compared anyway. It doesn't make any sense. True, if it had been the only hit it would have been forgotten. Historical foot note perhaps. Like the Searchers with "Needles and Pins?" But this song isn't that good, IMHO.

[butterfly]

.......oh man this just gets funnier and funnier, thank god for some sense from Lee Knight, Dean Roddy, Mcleod Grant et al. Also agree about that bridge, really grabs you and kind of reminds us guys what we like about the opposite sex also. dbbubba, man you just keep diigging yourself a bigger and bigger hole with every post, I'd quit whilst you were still only mildy ridiculous if I were you. Anyone know if Joe Zook is a slut, I'm sure some of this must have filtered it's way back to the origonal producer, writer or mix engineer through an intern or assistant engineer! lol.

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I don't know. Not to me. I recently taught I Want To Hold Your Hand to a beginning guitar student. Great melody. You can sing it with absolutely no accompaniment and it works. You can sing it with only a guitar and it works. You can play it fast. You can play it exceedingly slow and it works really, really well. Musically it's extremely well constructed. It doesn't rely on the production to sell it as a song. The song stands on it's own.

The Katy Perry songs are well constructed pop songs that, to me, bare little comparison to The Beatles, or at least to I Want and She Loves You and a host of other early sides.

Eras shouldn't really be compared anyway. It doesn't make any sense. True, if it had been the only hit it would have been forgotten. Historical foot note perhaps. Like the Searchers with "Needles and Pins?" But this song isn't that good, IMHO.

Couldn't you look at 5th Dimension's 60's releases the same way. "Well, they really rely on arrangement to make them work." Well yes they do. And Bacharach too. I imagine I Kissed a Girl sounds just fine on acoustic guitar. Think about it.

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by butterfly

.......oh man this just gets funnier and funnier, thank god for some sense from Lee Knight, Dean Roddy, Mcleod Grant et al. Also agree about that bridge, really grabs you and kind of reminds us guys what we like about the opposite sex also. dbbubba, man you just keep diigging yourself a bigger and bigger hole with every post, I'd quit whilst you were still only mildy ridiculous if I were you. Anyone know if Joe Zook is a slut, I'm sure some of this must have filtered it's way back to the origonal producer, writer or mix engineer through an intern or assistant engineer! lol.

Dbbubba isn't digging himself a whole. He stated his opinion about something, which I happen to pretty much agree with. If Homosexuals want to be treated equal, fine. I have no problem with that. I think they should be treated like people, just like everyone else. But a lot of them want to be treated "special," or want to be givin special privliges. Screw that. I don't care either way if your gay or not. I perosnaly don't think it's right. But I am not going to judge someone for it, it's their own life. If they can make great music, awesome. I would love the chance to work with them. I spent a lot of time in theatre and worked with a lot of really awesome guys who were gay. They didn't flaunt it either. I don't like it when straight people bring what they do behind closed doors into public, why would I feel differenly about someone who is gay? And yeah if a black person starts acting "ghetto" around me, then I really want nothing to do with that. It's annoing, unprofesional, and makes them look bad. If that's offensive, then sorry. Get over it.

-- Ben

[Dean Roddey]

But a lot of them want to be treated "special," or want to be givin special privliges. Screw that. I don't care either way if your gay or not. I perosnaly don't think it's right.

What special privileges would those be?

[Nu-tra]

Another pretty face selling a dumb product is all it is. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Wow. I'm really, really out of touch. I know it. You don't have to tell me. But three times I clicked on the little audition button on iTunes to hear a sample of that track. I just don't get why that's such a great track. I mean, to me, it's anything BUT.

I mean, 'splain it to me. Should I buy it? Is there something I'm missing in that little snippet?

[Lee Knight]

Not totally polished but a pretty good song and certainly pretty qualified to have a careeer in pop music. Better than most. I like her. Acoustic Katy Perry...

But you're not a man
You're just a Mannequin
I wish you could feel that my love is real
But you're not a man


YouTube - Katy Perry - Mannequin

[flying_squirrel]

Worst song ever.

[butterfly]

Dbbubba isn't digging himself a whole. He stated his opinion about something, which I happen to pretty much agree with. If Homosexuals want to be treated equal, fine. I have no problem with that. I think they should be treated like people, just like everyone else. But a lot of them want to be treated "special," or want to be givin special privliges. Screw that. I don't care either way if your gay or not. I perosnaly don't think it's right. But I am not going to judge someone for it, it's their own life. If they can make great music, awesome. I would love the chance to work with them. I spent a lot of time in theatre and worked with a lot of really awesome guys who were gay. They didn't flaunt it either. I don't like it when straight people bring what they do behind closed doors into public, why would I feel differenly about someone who is gay? And yeah if a black person starts acting "ghetto" around me, then I really want nothing to do with that. It's annoing, unprofesional, and makes them look bad. If that's offensive, then sorry. Get over it.

-- Ben

You know the funny thing here is that the guys like you and buba, who have exhibited the most narrow minded perspective on matters musical seem to also demonstrate the same attitude to social progress, erm no i'm not gay are you in the clan?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Couldn't you look at 5th Dimension's 60's releases the same way. "Well, they really rely on arrangement to make them work." Well yes they do. And Bacharach too. I imagine I Kissed a Girl sounds just fine on acoustic guitar. Think about it.

Just tried it. It doesn't work the same for me. YMMV. Am, G/B, C, Dm, F7, E7, repeat. I mean it's OK.

I Want To Hold Your Hand works in sing-a-long, -- one of those long car trips that everyone can sing, not just because most everybody, at least of my generation, knows it, but because it's immanently singable.

I don't think the 5th D or Bacharach relied on arrangements to make them work. Those songs, by and large, can work without arrangements. Those were the days that a song was intended to communicate from being played by sheet music alone.

I heard a successful country songwriter interviewed on Fresh Air. Terry Gross asked him to play anything he wanted and he chose to play, on acoustic guitar with him singing, Dancing Queen. It was great. That's a case where the production messed up, for me, a potentially great song. I mean it certainly was fantastically successful, so I can hardly say it was messed up. The production was perfect for the target audience at that time and did what it was supposed to do -- sell a lot of records. Kind of a similar target audience then as Kissed A Girl is for today, I imagine. Except the subject is far different and is supposed to be mildly controversial, in a commercial kind of way.

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

What special privileges would those be?

by being treated special I meant they want to be tolerated, no matter what they do or where they do it. Not meaning to sound like a blanket statement. Maybe that was too wide to say a lot of them. and Privileges might have been the wrong term. I have run into this ... maybe it's just me that has experienced this?

-- Ben

[author]

Originally Posted by sluttygearhere

if a black person starts acting "ghetto" around me, then I really want nothing to do with that. It's annoing, unprofesional

Know what you mean... I feel the same way about people who can't spell the most simple words in their own language.

[kittyboy]

I was gonna let this one go, but then you guys had to drag The Beatles into it and start praising the middle 8...


The middle 8 on this tune sucks balls...and sucks them poorly at that. This is one of those middle 8s that feels clumsily jammed in there for purely expositional reasons, forced in there with no musical sense whatsoever. It's the artistic equivalent of duct tape.


The whole song is an abortion. Forced, false, manipulative, and crass. Yes, within the "forced, false, manipulative, crass" genre one might say it's quite good, but to me that's like saying "Hey, that's a nice piece of dogshit right there!"


The Beatles? I Want To Hold Your Hand? You're going to compare it to that?


Man, when I hear "Hold Your Hand" I feel nourished and taken care of, like a cute girl made me a plate of food, or got me a nice piece of pizza at least and then we danced for a while and then we made out and it was awesome.

With "Kissed a girl" I feel like somebody threw up on a paper plate, threw it in my face, waved their titties in my face tauntingly, and walked out the door laughing at me.

Now we're into super-subjective personal realm of feeling (the most important aspect of music to me, but the most subjective by far), so this is just me, but when I listen to The Beatles I feel love, and when I listen to this I feel used.

But that's just me...

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by butterfly

You know the funny thing here is that the guys like you and buba, who have exhibited the most narrow minded perspective on matters musical seem to also demonstrate the same attitude to social progress, erm no i'm not gay are you in the clan?

Why must I be called narrow minded because I don't like a song or think it's crap? Like I said before, I have worked with a lot of Homosexual people, and they are great people. I have worked with some that were complete a-holes too. If you're a jerk, I don't want anything to do with you. End of story. You could be black white, gay, straight, alien? whatever. If you're a cool person to work with and fun to be around then awesome. Personally labels don't do much for me. The only label I really care about is the Jerk label. People are pretty much people to me. When they think they are better than me for any reason, than to me that's just absurd.

- Ben

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Just tried it. It doesn't work the same for me. YMMV. Am, G/B, C, Dm, F7, E7, repeat. I mean it's OK.

I Want To Hold Your Hand works in sing-a-long, -- one of those long car trips that everyone can sing, not just because most everybody, at least of my generation, knows it, but because it's immanently singable.

I don't think the 5th D or Bacharach relied on arrangements to make them work. Those songs, by and large, can work without arrangements. Those were the days that a song was intended to communicate from being played by sheet music alone.

I heard a successful country songwriter interviewed on Fresh Air. Terry Gross asked him to play anything he wanted and he chose to play, on acoustic guitar with him singing, Dancing Queen. It was great. That's a case where the production messed up, for me, a potentially great song. I mean it certainly was fantastically successful, so I can hardly say it was messed up. The production was perfect for the target audience at that time and did what it was supposed to do -- sell a lot of records. Kind of a similar target audience then as Kissed A Girl is for today, I imagine. Except the subject is far different and is supposed to be mildly controversial, in a commercial kind of way.

Dancin' Queen is a great song... and a great production. Granted I Kissed a Girl is no One Less Bell To Answer, but it does hold together as a song nicely, regardless of your evaluation of your analysis. Hey, why don't you analyze Like a Rolling Stone so we can see if it's as good as Let it Be. No wait, Let it Be only has a few chords too... Maybe it's not how many chords a song has... hmmm. Let me analyze this and get back to you.

Oh, and where's your analysis of the bridge by the way?

[Dean Roddey]

by being treated special I meant they want to be tolerated, no matter what they do or where they do it. Not meaning to sound like a blanket statement. Maybe that was too wide to say a lot of them. and Privileges might have been the wrong term. I have run into this ... maybe it's just me that has experienced this?

Like doing what? Unless they are sacrificing goats or something, I doubt they are doing anything in public that straight people don't do pretty regularly. But anyway, unless you feel that they doing things that are illegal in public and not getting arrested for it while straight people do the same things and do get arrested, then I'm not sure what would be considered special about it really.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Dancin' Queen is a great song... and a great production. Granted I Kissed a Girl is no One Less Bell To Answer, but it does hold together as a song nicely, regardless of your evaluation of your analysis. Hey, why don't you analyze Like a Rolling Stone so we can see if it's as good as Let it Be. No wait, Let it Be only has a few chords too... Maybe it's not how many chords a song has... hmmm. Let analyze this and get back to you.

That's why I said eras shouldn't be compared, and neither should songs. But I'm not the person who compared them. I just reacted to the comparison made.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Oh, and where's your analysis of the bridge by the way?

You're going to hate me for this, but I love kittyboys analysis.

I mean the bridge is a throwaway to me. Lyrically the titillation is stupid, to me. What is this Penthouse or Hustler for teenage girls? What's the point? There's nothing musically to say. So the rest is girls fantasies about guys fantasies about girls fantasies about each other, kind of for guys and mainly for girls. And so what? How irresponsible is this? It's not great art, so it doesn't have that as an excuse.

That's how I feel about the song morally. But I haven't been talking about it's subject matter.

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by kittyboy

I was gonna let this one go, but then you guys had to drag The Beatles into it and start praising the middle 8...


The middle 8 on this tune sucks balls...and sucks them poorly at that. This is one of those middle 8s that feels clumsily jammed in there for purely expositional reasons, forced in there with no musical sense whatsoever. It's the artistic equivalent of duct tape.


The whole song is an abortion. Forced, false, manipulative, and crass. Yes, within the "forced, false, manipulative, crass" genre one might say it's quite good, but to me that's like saying "Hey, that's a nice piece of dogshit right there!"


The Beatles? I Want To Hold Your Hand? You're going to compare it to that?


Man, when I hear "Hold Your Hand" I feel nourished and taken care of, like a cute girl made me a plate of food, or got me a nice piece of pizza at least and then we danced for a while and then we made out and it was awesome.

With "Kissed a girl" I feel like somebody threw up on a paper plate, threw it in my face, waved their titties in my face tauntingly, and walked out the door laughing at me.

Now we're into super-subjective personal realm of feeling (the most important aspect of music to me, but the most subjective by far), so this is just me, but when I listen to The Beatles I feel love, and when I listen to this I feel used.

But that's just me...

So you feel love when you hear the Beatles. How do you feel when you hear Rocket Launcher by Bruce Cockburn? Not love? Must be a crappy song then.

How about War by Edwin Star. Not love? Crappy again.

Iron Man by Black Sabbath? No love?

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by kittyboy

I was gonna let this one go, but then you guys had to drag The Beatles into it and start praising the middle 8...


The middle 8 on this tune sucks balls...and sucks them poorly at that. This is one of those middle 8s that feels clumsily jammed in there for purely expositional reasons, forced in there with no musical sense whatsoever. It's the artistic equivalent of duct tape.


The whole song is an abortion. Forced, false, manipulative, and crass. Yes, within the "forced, false, manipulative, crass" genre one might say it's quite good, but to me that's like saying "Hey, that's a nice piece of dogshit right there!"


The Beatles? I Want To Hold Your Hand? You're going to compare it to that?


Man, when I hear "Hold Your Hand" I feel nourished and taken care of, like a cute girl made me a plate of food, or got me a nice piece of pizza at least and then we danced for a while and then we made out and it was awesome.

With "Kissed a girl" I feel like somebody threw up on a paper plate, threw it in my face, waved their titties in my face tauntingly, and walked out the door laughing at me.

Now we're into super-subjective personal realm of feeling (the most important aspect of music to me, but the most subjective by far), so this is just me, but when I listen to The Beatles I feel love, and when I listen to this I feel used.

But that's just me...

Yeah, absolutely.

Kinda like the difference between sweet and gentle romance and cheap disposable sexual titilation - the crass kind that says "hey! look at me, aren't I kewl" - Whateva.

Guess I'm just getting old.

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by author

Know what you mean... I feel the same way about people who can't spell the most simple words in their own language.

hey, sorry I can't be perfect for ya. I make mistakes, oh well. Life goes on.

-- Ben

[latestflavor]

Originally Posted by chk027

It almost sounds 80's ish think bullchit pop "tainted love"

soft cell???

exactly what i thought, except one step further - the rhianna soundalike last spring / summer - SOS.

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Yeah, absolutely.

Kinda like the difference between sweet and gentle romance and cheap disposable sexual titilation - the crass kind that says "hey! look at me, aren't I kewl" - Whateva.

Guess I'm just getting old.

Do you really see the lyrics to I Kissed a Girl as "crass"? I see them as the fun exploits of a 23 year old. I sure did a lot of "fun" things when I was 23. Regardless of morality here, the actual use of a hetero girl voicing her same sex attraction is kind of clever. Purely from a writing stand point. "I hope my boyfriend don't mind it." Crass? I think it's cute.

Have a cocktail, relax.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Do you really see the lyrics to I Kissed a Girl as "crass"? I see them as the fun exploits of a 23 year old. I sure did a lot of "fun" things when I was 23. Regardless of morality here, the actual use of a hetero girl voicing her same sex attraction is kind of clever. Purely from a writing stand point. "I hope my boyfriend don't mind it." Crass? I think it's cute.

Have a cocktail, relax.

I think it's kind of crass. And whether or not its a 23 year old singing it, I don't think it's marketed to her 23 year old demographic, is it? It's seem kind of mature t'ween to me.