Proof that a lot of us are wrong.

[badboymusic]

If you like that song you might like "Cuz I Can" by Pink (the song they ripped the vibe off from).

[u b k]

i think the primary contention comes down to definitions.

'great' pop song, for some, equates to 'effective' or 'catchy' pop song. emphasis is on the pop aspect. for others, 'great' pop song is a 'great' song that happens to be pop. emphasis is on timelessness, artistry.

all due respect to the cover band players in our midst, 'i kissed a girl' is not meant to be played by folks holding instruments on a stage, it's meant to be slammed thru a huge p.a. by a dj who knows how to work his floor. the production IS the song here.

me, i'm thinking 'everybody ona move' by michael franti & spearhead takes the song at the center of this discussion and perfunctorily wipes the floor with it, and i'm *still* waiting for something to come along that's as effortlessly off-the-wall and fiendishly obtuse as 'milkshake'.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by u b k

and i'm *still* waiting for something to come along that's as effortlessly off-the-wall and fiendishly obtuse as 'milkshake'.

Hahahaha! Oh yeah baby

[JP11]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

I

...also THE BEATLES released a little song called "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" and "I Saw Her Standing There"....please tell me you don't think these songs were anything but fun Pop songs with a little controversy(for the time) thrown in for good measure...does this detract from the fact that they were well done....

Hmmm, well when you put it like that....it's not The Jonas Brothers who are the new Beatles, it's this chick!! There's really no difference at all...none that I can hear.

Roll over John Lennon and tell George Harrison the news.

[mikeynyuk]

Originally Posted by u b k

all due respect to the cover band players in our midst, 'i kissed a girl' is not meant to be played by folks holding instruments on a stage, it's meant to be slammed thru a huge p.a. by a dj who knows how to work his floor. the production IS the song here.

.

I completely agree with you. In alot of pop music today, the production IS the song. One of the most production heavy styles in the last decade would have to be garage, crazy drum programming, heavy reverse sampling, sound fx etc. And yet Craig David and the Artful Dodger could still grace the stage with nothing more then an acoustic guitar and a microphone and pay hommage to their studio work. My band will take on any kind of tune, we will just rework it for our line-up...

Yes, we do "milkshake"!!

My point being, all the production in the world wont make a good song, and the saying "if you can sit down with a piano and sing it, and it still sounds good" is still mostly applicable in my view, although The Prodigy would probably present an insurmountable challenge.

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

Do you know the history of your industry?...you know the contemporary pop song?...I guess you're too cool for school to allow yourself to appreciate great work. That's some great work there..I think your comment just goes to show how you wouldn't know good music if it smacked you in the face....and....my post was about how we (today's engineers) like to blame the tools for the state of our industry....my point is that we should stop making excuses and just use whatever tools we are given to make really effective music...like the dude who mixed that song....BTW "I Kissed A Girl" is supposed to be fun. Not all good music is supposed to change the world or blow your mind.

Nick

I don't blame the tools as much as the people who use them, or should I say abuse them. But that's a different conversation I don't want to start up. I personaly think the song is crap. Yeah it's catchy and what not. But it's completely pointless and worthless if you ask me. Yeah music should be fun, but I think the stupidity has gone a little overboard. You feed people crap long enough and eventually they'll like it. But it's really all subjective, yeah it sounds pretty freakin good, you could probably learn a little bit from it production wise. But hell, I could learn a lot more, that would apply more, listneing to pink floyd or led zepplin for a couple of hours. Like said I think it's crap. But hey that's why I don't listen to it.

-- Ben

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

[snip].....also everyone that's trying to say that it isn't a big deal to mix a song like this is full of shit...really...this is a bonafide hit....the real thing and a bunch of you are pretending that you could have done as good a job or something better...I don't think so boys.....
[/snip]

Nick

I don't really believe in turning down work .. but if they had approached me about mixing this song, which I don't think would happen as I am probably not as good as the guy who mixed it, I would have turned it down. I don't believe in putting out crap. I wouldn't want my name attached to this piece of crap. .. just my .02 cents though.

-- Ben

[kafka]

Originally Posted by u b k

and i'm *still* waiting for something to come along that's as effortlessly off-the-wall and fiendishly obtuse as 'milkshake'.

Ha! Now that's a scab that you can't stop picking!

[dbbubba]

I just fail to see where that song or the production or the mix bring much new to the table.

If it wasn't about a woman "kissing" and then kinda' wanting to bump bush with another woman you wouldn't even notice this song.
We wouldn't even be discussing it.

As a side note:
I have a daughter just turning fourteen.
I really don't want her influenced by shit like this song, but guess what?
She already knew all about and how even the mention of the song is banned on a lot of forums frequented by younger kids.

It is a f*cked up and cheap sell.
If is the best way that chick can get noticed then I feel sorry for her (not really.)
I wouldn't want my name attatched to it.
I work with A LOT of gay people (I work around a lot of dance.)
I treat homosexuals on an even playing field until they have to put their sexual preferences up for view.
Most often no one would even know their orientation (well, the women at least.)
It isn't cute, trendy, modern, sexy or special in any way.
No one WANTS to know if they are gay, but somehow at some point it ALWAYS has to be displayed.
To a man (or woman) the ones I know ARE NOT happy people because of their sexual choice.
They many be successful in their careers and in business, but they are outsiders who have to either live in secrecy or flaunt it endlessly to justify their choice.
I don't care what they do behind closed doors, so don't foist your wonderful passions on me.
I don't insist that they listen and deal with my personal choices.
I don't need to justify them to other people.

About the dissing of playing "cover music"....

I guess that if you aren't playing "cover" music you are playing "ORIGINAL" music?
Really?
I have heard this boastful argument from bands and players who play "original" music for years.
Almost without exception their "original" music is the same stuff played by someone else.
The same sound, musical structures and styles with new words.
It is a VERY musically immature statement.

Besides, if you learn cover music you are exposed to and forced to learn different musical concepts.
Players I know that have played a lot of different styles without fail are more rounded players.
If you are worth anything you should be able to happily perform BOTH original compositions and know the "standards."
If you were talented enough to be hired into a well paying, name band you'd jump.
Would you be playing original music?
No, because you didn't write it.

[author]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

I treat homosexuals (...)

they are outsiders who have to either live in secrecy or flaunt it endlessly to justify their choice.
I don't care what they do behind closed doors, so don't foist your wonderful passions on me.

Well, I'm not even close to being gay, but I have to congratulate you for writing the most stupid & ridiculous post I've ever seen here!

Wow!

[u b k]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

I don't care what they do behind closed doors, so don't foist your wonderful passions on me.
I don't insist that they listen and deal with my personal choices.

are they insisting you 'listen to and deal with' their personal choices? sounds like they're just being physically affectionate in a way that you're not comfortable with.

are they responsible for your feelings about their sexuality and its expression, or are you?

i'm looking in my rulebook but i can't find the page where it says all aspects of sex must remain behind closed doors, lest anyone be made ill at ease.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[confooshus]

This forum is so ridiculous, yet I can't stop reading...

Everyone pisses on the song as being crap because of the message of girls kissing girls... Then when dbubba says he's not down with homosexuality, he gets dumped on. Seriously, there are a bunch of idiots on this forum.

[zboy2854]

I have to laugh reading some of these negative responses, as if this song (or any other pop song) has to be some enduring, eternal second coming of the Beatles. Or as if the history of pop music hasn't always been filled with catchy evanescent one hit wonder type of songs and artists.

The first time I heard the song on Katy Perry's Myspace page (months before it was released as a single), I instantly "got it", and thought it was a hit. Did I think it was some groundbreaking, paradigm changing, everlasting piece of art? No, but so what? I appreciated it for what it was, nothing more than that.

What's wrong with evanescent pop songs that give you a quick sugar high? They have their place as well as the "timeless" classics. Just because I appreciate a sumptuous 7 course meal at a five star restaurant doesn't mean I can't also appreciate sometimes having the #2 special at the local greasy spoon.

To all those who don't "get it" with this song, fine, no one says you have to. Just realize that millions of other listeners do get it, as evidenced by the fact that this song was number one on iTunes and the singles charts for quite a while, and is still in the top ten, and has sold millions. Now, of course the Pavlovian response to that will be that the masses are asses, or that it doesn't mean the song is "good". But ultimately what is "good" is up to each listener, and anyone who would assume that their opinion or personal sensibilities should be shared by everyone else is a pompous ass IMO. So if you don't like the song, or don't "get it", you're not wrong if that's your opinion, but neither are those who do like the song. Let the millions of other people who like and have purchased the song enjoy it for what it is.

[CapnMarvel]

I'll put it this way - I don't like the song much, the production doesn't feel particularly fresh or interesting, and I think the Autotune remants and ugly digistortion on the vocals are regrettable....

...but if I were handed similar material I'd probably try to mix it in much the same way.

Seriously, though...there's been enough really good stuff that's come out in 'stupid pop' in the last few years that's actually great, great material that IS blessed with amazing engineering. I'm thinking of Gnarls Barkley, Outkast, Pink, Gwen Stefani and No Doubt, etc., etc. etc.

Oh, and the argument of 'I have gay friends but I don't like it when they act gay around me' is about as offensive as 'I have black friends who are fine as long as they don't start with that ghetto talk around me', as far as I'm concerned. Sorry, is ANYONE shocked or titillated by the idea of lesbianism anymore? Welcome to 1985, people.

[author]

Originally Posted by confooshus

This forum is so ridiculous, yet I can't stop reading...

Everyone pisses on the song as being crap because of the message of girls kissing girls... Then when dbubba says he's not down with homosexuality, he gets dumped on. Seriously, there are a bunch of idiots on this forum.

I didn't piss on the song. I said we wouldn't know it without the title. That's not negative. That just shows how important a good titel is. And this one is not only good, it's gorgeous -- provided that it's sung by a girl. Or by David Bowie in 1972.

However, it could have been used in lots of different ways. Most of them would lead to Top 10, though. And to threads like this.

[O.F.F.]

Just listened to a bit of that song on MySpace.

It really is Gary Glitters drums! (suspected as much from bcgoods posting)
Yep, that was a catchy pop tune in '73, sounded better then tho'.
Guess she'll have less trouble then Gary about all the 13 year old girls it will catch.
Especially if, unlike Gary, she can keep her fingers of them!

A song about teenage lesbianism to the tune of a convicted paedophile… oooh how controversial!

As far as I could tell the drums were the most catchy part about the tune. Unfortunately they have been done to death, first by Gary himself (all or most of his hits have been based on those) and then every few years someone copied/sampled them.
The sound quality was not sufficient to say anything about the production/mix quality.

The catchiest pop tune of recent years to my ears was Kylie Minogues 'Can't Get You out Of My Head'. Which, incidentally, has been written by an early 70s contemporary of Gary Glitter (the guitarist of Mudd). May be these old guys know something about writing catchy tunes we don't?

[macleodgrant]

for a bunch of producers and mixing engineers and musicians, some of you guys just don't see why a song like that is making so much money and why people love it.

a good producer and engineer will find the good in a song or group and bring that element out to make them shine

i like all kinds of music and that's the way you gotta be if you want to do good work and make original stuff

[CapnMarvel]

Originally Posted by O.F.F.

Just listened to a bit of that song on MySpace.

The catchiest pop tune of recent years to my ears was Kylie Minogues 'Can't Get You out Of My Head'. Which, incidentally, has been written by an early 70s contemporary of Gary Glitter (the guitarist of Mudd). May be these old guys know something about writing catchy tunes we don't?

You mean paedophilia? Hey, if it works for Pete Townshend...

j/k

[O.F.F.]

Don't think it will work for Gary anymore. He got caught with a 11 and a 12 year old girl.
Just got released from prison in Vietnam where he spent a few years.

A bit worse then 'just' downloading pictures like Pete (Gary was done for that too at around the same time as Pete).

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

I have to laugh reading some of these negative responses, as if this song (or any other pop song) has to be some enduring, eternal second coming of the Beatles. Or as if the history of pop music hasn't always been filled with catchy evanescent one hit wonder type of songs and artists.

The first time I heard the song on Katy Perry's Myspace page (months before it was released as a single), I instantly "got it", and thought it was a hit. Did I think it was some groundbreaking, paradigm changing, everlasting piece of art? No, but so what? I appreciated it for what it was, nothing more than that.

What's wrong with evanescent pop songs that give you a quick sugar high? They have their place as well as the "timeless" classics. Just because I appreciate a sumptuous 7 course meal at a five star restaurant doesn't mean I can't also appreciate sometimes having the #2 special at the local greasy spoon.

To all those who don't "get it" with this song, fine, no one says you have to. Just realize that millions of other listeners do get it, as evidenced by the fact that this song was number one on iTunes and the singles charts for quite a while, and is still in the top ten, and has sold millions. Now, of course the Pavlovian response to that will be that the masses are asses, or that it doesn't mean the song is "good". But ultimately what is "good" is up to each listener, and anyone who would assume that their opinion or personal sensibilities should be shared by everyone else is a pompous ass IMO. So if you don't like the song, or don't "get it", you're not wrong if that's your opinion, but neither are those who do like the song. Let the millions of other people who like and have purchased the song enjoy it for what it is.

Thats' it. I agree 100%. It's funny to see the comments:

"There's nothing ground breaking". So-the-eff-what?

"It's distorted". Uh... yeah, it is.

"It's exploitative" No!!!


And it also captures a pretty real point of view from a young woman who's strecthing out in life. Try it on, see if it fits. The bridge slays me...

Us girls we are so magical
Soft skin, red lips, so kissable
Hard to resist so touchable
Too good to deny it
Ain't no big deal, it's innocent

That's clever explaining her actions from a very real point of view. She's not pretending to be super sex vixen. She's a chick going out dancing and has an experience. I think it shrewdly picks up on something that happens or at least gets thought about from time to time. It has clearly struck a chord.

And I'm 48 years old. I think it is extremely well put together behind the scenes and she absolutely delivers. It hits like a rock tune hits.

[Tone Laborer]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

T Just realize that millions of other listeners do get it, as evidenced by the fact that this song was number one on iTunes and the singles charts for quite a while, and is still in the top ten, and has sold millions.

" proof that a lot of us are wrong."

[315hz]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

And it also captures a pretty real point of view from a young woman who's strecthing out in life. Try it on, see if it fits. The bridge slays me...

Us girls we are so magical
Soft skin, red lips, so kissable
Hard to resist so touchable
Too good to deny it
Ain't no big deal, it's innocent

That's clever explaining her actions from a very real point of view. She's not pretending to be super sex vixen. She's a chick going out dancing and has an experience. I think it shrewdly picks up on something that happens or at least gets thought about from time to time. It has clearly struck a chord.

And I'm 48 years old. I think it is extremely well put together behind the scenes and she absolutely delivers. It hits like a rock tune hits.

well, i'm mid 30's...male...and i totally "got" the tune.

i have to agree. its a well written, great sounding tune.

i felt the EXACT same way as you. that bridge is fantastic.

this kind of music is not really my cup of tea...but it really is so well done to my ears.

sex in pop music ?

NEVER !!

if you don't dig it. don't listen. the best thing about music is the ability to turn it off.

or, turn it UP !!!

rock on.

-315hz

[O.F.F.]

In music as in everything else: The conscious path to popularity leads to a place called mediocrity.

Groundbreaking stuff never sells, at least not at the time of its first release. It needs the population at large to catch up and only time will tell if something was groundbreaking or ploughing straight into a dead end.

That said the tune is an ok pop song, no more no less. Its not meant to be Shakespeare, its meant to sell and so has to appeal to at least some lowest common denominators.
And it can be argued that the producers achieved this quite well. Its not good but its not badly cheesy either. Kind of a entertaining cheesiness.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

And it also captures a pretty real point of view from a young woman who's strecthing out in life...

It's not autobiographical. I think the song is pretty much 100% satire. Whether or not Katy has ever kissed a girl, this song was inspired by the published picture of Miley Cyrus spoof-kissing a girl at a sleepover. See my previous post in this thread.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by Tone Laborer

" proof that a lot of us are wrong."

Nope, proof that there is no "right" or "wrong", only personal taste and opinion.

[henryrobinett]

I much prefer ur so gay all around. The drums really bother me, but that's part of the vibe. They just plod. I don't like the tone or the playing/programming of them at all. But obviously it works. That's why I'm not doing stuff like this. I'd get the wrong sounds, probably.

I think it's well mixed. I'm wondering whether the real credit so go to the producer rather than the engineer. Are we cross hatting in general these days? Very clean arrangement. Clean frequencies. Sparse. Nothing's there that doesn't need to be there. Highly compressed. Good job! Good pop music.