Immediacy in tracks

[Heartfelt]

I have imported some commercial tracks into my session in order to emulate and learn some production skills.

Right now, in terms of a difference between my project studio tracks and comercial tracks, is this:

There is an inherent immediacy, upfront, focused sound in whatever I am listening to in the commercial tracks, such as acoustic guitar and voice.

What is the source of this immediacy? Is that a property of a high quality pre or is it a mic property? Is this the mid forward sound an API or Neveish pre can bring?

I have echo converters which are considered decent, I have an AT4047 which is decent but am currently using AH console pres. This is what catches my attention. My tracks are balanced in terms of tone, I have compliments on my mixes and recording but I want that immediacy.

Any thoughts or discussion would be appreciated.
Thanks
Robert

[theblue1]

Lots of potential factors, of course. Nice gear can make for nice upfront sounds, to be sure -- but it won't assure the kind of immediacy I think you're talking about.

I think the primary skills that come into play in achieving that immediacy are -- not too surprisingly -- artful use of compression, psychoacoustic ambiance (reverb/environment/you know), and EQ. And... did I mention compression?


Now, of course, I don't mean just slamming that puppy, squashing the sound until it looks like someone's face pressed up against the glass (as it were).

To jump laterally to another visual metaphor, compression can be -- in some ways -- a little like using a telephoto lens -- but in multiple dimensions. (Well, there went that analogy.) I guess what I'm trying to get at is that there's a lot of potential complexity in manipulating dynamics with compression.


Of course, simple compressors with just a knob or two (and typically an inversely inflated price tag) are all the rage and some of them are very thorough in doing what they do.

But you've probably noticed that many compressors have a whole bunch of knobs and switches...

Compression can be an extraordinarily complex, wildly non-linear process (particularly when you get into parallel, multi-layered, or multi-band compression) and there is almost unlimited room for artful use of it to shape sound and help "focus" our attention on various details, bringing out the humanness of a vocalist, for instance, by bringing up the details, even, say, the in between breaths that most folks don't even notice but whose presence or absence can subtly but sometimes paradoxically powerfully influence the impression the performance makes. Or chair squeaks. Nothing says real like a squeaky chair. (I'm kidding... but not absolutely entirely.)


In the past I've spent time squinting between the speakers, listening to some strikingly present and immediate-sounding classic from 50 or more years ago (they really knew their compression back then, on the high end gigs like fifties Sinatra or Nat Cole).

Anyhow, while my focus has been on compression, it's clearly a fabric of qualities that all feed together to form that sense of up front reality I think you're looking for.

[deeper]

Immediacy? You don't mean "presence" do you?

The 4047 is a great mic, but that may be part of your problem. The 4047 smooths every thing out in a sweet way, but it may be "rounding off" the frequencies you are missing. Have you managed to successfully capture "immediacy" with any other mic -- like a SDC?

Besides using the right mic, having it in real close to the source may help you get what you're looking for. A fast preamp that accurately captures transients may be what you're looking for.

Or you just may need to run your tracks through an 1176...

[Heartfelt]

Thanks for the posts guys. Very helpful.

As to presence, no it isnt that... it seems more of a mid thing than enything else. Funny that nothing is out of balance tonewise so it is hard for me to identify the cause.

Maybe it truly is the RIGHT compression.

thanks for helping me think through this.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by theblue1

it's clearly a fabric of qualities that all feed together to form that sense of up front reality I think you're looking for.

I listened to a couple of your tunes and they sound pretty well balanced to me.

I don't think that there is one solution for what you seek. Compression, EQ...all of those things that we constantly discuss are important.

Panning and delay decisions play a big part in determining what stands out in a mix.

And for that extra something that brings out the best in your songs you may want to call upon the talents of a qualified ME.

[Jules]

Mic pre type mostly followed by compressor type is my guess..

I did a session with some Amek 9098 mic pre's and it had such an amazing 'you are there' live jazz feel - everyone on the session was knocked out (me too) and I ended up ... not buying them.. DOH!

Dont forget a lot of the uber compressed 'in your face' accoustic guitar stuff may have been done in professionally treated recording rooms. Trying that in a regular living room / home office style studio space might bring up a lot of unwanted hard room tone / ambience and computer hard drive noise!

Good luck with your sonic quest!

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Jules

I did a session with some Amek 9098 mic pre's

I love those pres. They get little hype but they sound great.
eq is really great on gtrs. I like the old isa 110's a little better though
just a little


I forgot to ask the op what a/d do you use? That can make a big difference.

[warhead]

L



A




3




A

The sound of immediacy and articulate presence.

I'm just saying, all boxes / mics / techniques aside...the one knob will do more than just about any other ONE KNOB out there.

War

[Heartfelt]

Thanks all,
That gives me some direction.

Immediacy starts with close micing in a dryish room and ends with Compression and the right EQ.

Quality pre and outboard Comp for tracking add as well.

The answer is composite in nature as are most audio issues.


Thanks again.

[u b k]

it's really hard to say what you're missing without knowing what you're comparing your music to.

can you name a song or two that you're using as a ref?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[TonyBelmont]

I think people are missing one the obvious reasons... It's quite likely the massive amounts of compression and limiting that takes place nowadays with commercially released material.

[Vum]

I was hearing a lot of noise and maybe some of the reverb choices were too wet - it's difficult for the vocal to take center stage without being more dry. This was also apparent on some of the instruments. Maybe also the side-stick was a touch too high and cutting in on the vocals real-estate frequency-wise. Maybe a LPF on the panned lead guitar on the third track?

~Not sure how this post got botched~

[Vum]

Maybe some of the reverb choices were too wet - it's difficult for the vocal to take center stage without being more dry. This was also apparent on some of the instruments. Try putting a HPF on the FX returns to clear an area for the lead vocal.

In my experience immediacy and urgency are very related to tempo and arrangement.

[DesertDawg]

Yeah those mixes are pretty wet, like some others have pointed out... it kinda sounds like you're going for that early 90's Nashville CCM sound, but you're not gonna get that on a live mix... try tapering off some of that 'verb or at least least maybe try dropping the early reflections & tapering the decay in a manner so that it may be of a similar length, but not so predominant early-on. Also, I hear some crowding in the the lo-mids... maybe try carving out little bits of frequency spectrum for each instrument to live in - don't get too severe or it'll sound plastic.

They don't suck as they are, though, FWIW.

[Heartfelt]

Wow,
thanks for all the help!

I apprecioate the tips on the 2 mixes I have. They are my first at self-production. I agree about my tendency to go too wet. It is my attempt at creating depth in the mixes.

The two tracks I have in my project are:

Once in a Lifetime - Keith Urban
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hIfPivZ9_g&fmt=18

I Still Miss you - Keith Anderson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEsRtKR-mk&fmt=18


I am not a country guy... grew up on Iron Maiden. However, my tastes "this week" have me enjoying the progressive country mixes. There is some crunch for edge but it is not a wall of guitars and there are other elements in the mixes such as piano and keys.

I enjoy the vocal forward style although for myself, I would pull it back a bit. With my current song project, I am trying to emulate these being that I am a ballad nut and a ballad writer.


It seems that I do hear some wetness on the voxs and guitars in most parts, excluding the intimate sections... more on the second song.

Thanks for any insight on achieving better mixes. :O)

Rob