oh my.... Now a Royer clone

**Lindell** · 22nd March 2005, 09:25 AM

TSM MT82. Ribbon microphone. Is it just me, or does it not look like a Royer?
http://www.musikcentralen.se/KUNDVAG...sp?nodeID=2535

StuartMac · 22nd March 2005, 10:15 AM

This is getting beyond a joke! SURELY David Royer can do something about that?

dave-G · 22nd March 2005, 11:57 AM

Is it possible that Royer are OEM'ing this mic?

Or does "TSM" mean "Royer" in Swedish?

loke · 22nd March 2005, 12:18 PM

And how do they sound ?

deft_bonz · 22nd March 2005, 12:32 PM

oups

that's even worse than behringer

entropy · 22nd March 2005, 12:38 PM

please, no-one buy this thing. It only encourages them

DeadPoet · 22nd March 2005, 02:12 PM

They seem to have a whole line of copies (TSM MT184s = KM184, MT58=SM58, MT103, MT170, MT87, MT47,...)

google doesn't find them anywhere other than the musikcentralen store though..

...wait, found some other dealers... €99 for the 'U87' and 'KM184' copies !!

They GOT to sound great

Herwig

pan60 · 22nd March 2005, 03:03 PM

Ribbonmicguy · 22nd March 2005, 04:40 PM

But in the first place,

Isn't Royer's R121 a copy of the Bang Olufsen BM5?

Jan Folkson · 22nd March 2005, 04:41 PM

The suck level that some people strive to and actually achieve will never cease to amaze me.

steins · 22nd March 2005, 04:56 PM

They even got an AEA R84 clone .

I actually had a TSM on trial a few years back, think it was the U49 clone. Sounded OK for a $400 Chinese mic. but it actually fell apart when I was about to put it back into its case. No kidding!

Stein Tore

rainsinvelvet · 22nd March 2005, 05:03 PM

Has someone emailed this link / thread to Royer yet? I would bet they would be interested....

ERic

alphajerk · 22nd March 2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy

But in the first place,

Isn't Royer's R121 a copy of the Bang Olufsen BM5?

no thats the SF12. the fentone? [BM3?] i believe is the name the R121 was modelled after.

Johns · 22nd March 2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy

But in the first place,

Isn't Royer's R121 a copy of the Bang Olufsen BM5?

I have 2 B&O fentones and the Royer 121 looks real close.

Volodia · 22nd March 2005, 07:13 PM

It's indeed quite similar looking : B&O BM3

**toolskid** · 22nd March 2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainsinvelvet

Has someone emailed this link / thread to Royer yet? I would bet they would be interested....

ERic

yup

fifthcircle · 22nd March 2005, 11:33 PM

When the Royers first came out, I was told that they physical similarity of the 121 was based on the B&O BM3, however, the ribbon design and electronics were completely different. However, the SF-12 was a lot closer to the Speiden stereo mic, not so much the B&O (which has the ability to change the angle between the 2 ribbons if I remember correctly).

--Ben

quadwould · 23rd March 2005, 06:37 AM

they also have a TLM103 knockoff. (TSM103)
the best part about thet is that they offer BOTH for sale !!!1??!?!?!?!!!

However... if the Royer ripoffs are not SH1TE... theni would be in for 2. at 2000 Swedish Krone (sp?) that is about 150 quid. (or 280 USD) plus shipping and customs.. Who cares.. they are still cheap!!! This is only if they sound good. if these are the DeDRinGHer

of Mics then i could care less and they should be Burnt

i miss my Royer.... WIGGY stole it (KIDDING) i sold it to him, in what must have looked like a drug deal in the middle of Russell Square... (long story)

Lindell.. are you able to go to this place to check it all out????

tony666 · 23rd March 2005, 11:50 AM

I'd also like to know if the inside of these TSM mikes is borrowed ;) from the originals?

GoldenAgeMusic · 28th March 2005, 10:19 PM

Hi everyone,
we are the Scandinavian distributor for Royer Labs and a lot of other high end pro audio (mostly US) brands. I therefor feel obliged to give you my view on this Royer clone issue that my friend Lindell has brought up in this thread:

The company that is releasing the Royer clone is called Luthman (www.luthman.se). They are one of Scandinavias biggest MI distributors.
Luthman is buying some Far East products, mics and more, and are selling them under their TSM brand name. That is common procedure these days.
The link at the beginning of this thread is from one of their dealers, Musikcentralen. I cannot find the Royer clone on Luthmans web site.

Royer Labs ARE NOT OEMing the R-121 to Luthman.
I informed Royer Labs as soon as I found out and have discussed this with them.

I find this interesting:
If you look closely at the picture of the TSM MT82 at Musikcentralens web shop and compare it to the R-121 picture at the Royer web site, you too will very likely conclude that it is the same. This picture can also be found in printed form in the new spring/summer catalogue from Luthman.

As far as I see it, a picture of a true R-121, probably from the Royer Labs web site, is at least initially used to market the MT82 clone.
Look at the shaddows and note the small remains / marks that can be found on the right places where the Royer logo and models name are located on a R-121, before they apparently was removed by someone using Photoshop or a similair software. Look at the position of the screws.
The TSM brand name and model no was not added though.

Luthman is also using the same basic data of a R-121 for their TSM MT82.
This is not the correct data of the clone!
I also wonder if the clone will have the very nice finish of a R-121.

I suggest that no one should expect the TSM MT82 to perform like a Royer Labs R-121. There are so many fine construction details that creates the great sound of a R-121.

As we all know, there are a number of companies in our industry that are putting their own brandname on products made in the Far East. Some of these products, like the ADK mics that we are distributing, are refined and customized versions of standard China-made models.
Some other products just receives a new brand name and possibly a change in the design of the visible parts.
One exemple is the ribbon mic that Thomann, Luthman and NADY are selling (which as far as I know is inspired from old RCA and BBC models). We are selling it too, under the Project G name (ADK´s entry level line) and we are soon releasing a modified Golden Age Project version.

It is true that low cost products from the Far East are giving many musicians and project studio owners the possibillity to buy affordable and often good products.

It is also true that there are different opinions about such products that are more or less copies of existing or vintage ones.

I will leave it up to everyone to make their own judgement regarding this Royer clone, it´s performance and and the way it seem to be presented to the Scandinavian market.

I think you all understand how I feel about it.

Best,
Bo

1st April 2005, 01:35 AM

Is it just me or is this a thread about a clone of a clone????

funny.

D

**Tim Farrant** · 1st April 2005, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpasch

Is it just me or is this a thread about a clone of a clone????
funny.

I think you have to define the difference between a clone (or direct copy) compared to something that was inspired by an existing design. The Royer might have been inspired by the B&O mic, but I am sure is not a direct copy as such, where as the Far East mics will be copies - saves a bundle on R&D!

Tim

KBOY · 1st April 2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

I think you have to define the difference between a clone (or direct copy) compared to something that was inspired by an existing design. The Royer might have been inspired by the B&O mic, but I am sure is not a direct copy as such, where as the Far East mics will be copies - saves a bundle on R&D!

Tim

Bull! That B&O picture is worth a thousand words. Are you all going to actually try and justify Royer. Are they paying a licensing fee to use that design. If they are I'm sorry. but I can't believe that this thread is still going on. Right on for whom ever posted that picture.

IT'S ALL IN THE SOUND IN THE END. Right?

To me

Royer still ripped the hell out of anothers design. I'm not discussing sound here, but looks. And this is what is being discussed here, right? NO ONE has heard this other mic right?

KBOY · 1st April 2005, 12:37 PM

Quite honestly, that B&O mic looks much cooler than the Royer. Has anyone used it? How does it compare? I think two of those would look really cool sitting in front of some tomms...........................Ha!

heinz · 1st April 2005, 05:08 PM

the r121 is not a clone, it's a godsend. most useful mic I own.

fifthcircle · 1st April 2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBOY

Royer still ripped the hell out of anothers design. I'm not discussing sound here, but looks. And this is what is being discussed here, right? NO ONE has heard this other mic right?

As I posted earlier... When the 121 first came out, they freely admitted that they based the physical design on the B&O BM3 microphone. (The SF12 was actually the Speiden design- and yes, I've used both) However, the internal design of the 121 is very different than the B&O. They are somewhat similar sonically (both being ribbons, etc... with a good top end, although Royer's is better), but there are plenty of things I'd put a Royer on and never dream of putting a B&O on. The Royer is a much more robust mic. If you see the 121 right next to the BM3, you'll realize how radically different the construction is. The only similarity, really, is the pair of magnets sticking out of the sides.

--Ben

Johns · 1st April 2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBOY

Quite honestly, that B&O mic looks much cooler than the Royer. Has anyone used it? How does it compare? I think two of those would look really cool sitting in front of some tomms...........................Ha!

The B&O is nicer looking,but the Royer is better sounding. The Royer has slightly more gain, clearer mids and highs. The B&O is usefull in some situations.

tommy lee · 17th June 2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindell

TSM MT82. Ribbon microphone. Is it just me, or does it not look like a Royer?
TSM MT82

Is it just me or does that look like a B&O just like the Royer does????

e-cue · 17th June 2007, 10:51 PM

There's a glitch in the matrix.

Meriphew · 17th June 2007, 11:17 PM

I think Tommy Lee just Quantum Leaped into this thread.

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22nd March 2005, 09:25 AM	#1
Lindell Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,642	oh my.... Now a Royer clone TSM MT82. Ribbon microphone. Is it just me, or does it not look like a Royer? http://www.musikcentralen.se/KUNDVAG...sp?nodeID=2535 Attached Thumbnails __________________ Tobias Lindell Bohus Sound Studios Myspace Lindell

22nd March 2005, 12:38 PM	#6
entropy Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: QLD. Australia Posts: 1,023	please, no-one buy this thing. It only encourages them __________________ Pro Audio Pimp at www.brisound.com.au The Australian home of A Designs Audio products.

22nd March 2005, 02:12 PM	#7
DeadPoet Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 676	They seem to have a whole line of copies (TSM MT184s = KM184, MT58=SM58, MT103, MT170, MT87, MT47,...) google doesn't find them anywhere other than the musikcentralen store though.. ...wait, found some other dealers... €99 for the 'U87' and 'KM184' copies !! They GOT to sound great Herwig Last edited by DeadPoet; 22nd March 2005 at 02:16 PM.. Reason: update

22nd March 2005, 03:03 PM	#8
pan60 500 series nutjob Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; ) Posts: 6,251	sad

22nd March 2005, 10:15 AM	#2
StuartMac Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 810	This is getting beyond a joke! SURELY David Royer can do something about that?

22nd March 2005, 11:57 AM	#3
dave-G Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 2,096	Is it possible that Royer are OEM'ing this mic? Or does "TSM" mean "Royer" in Swedish?

22nd March 2005, 12:18 PM	#4
loke Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Berlin Posts: 190	And how do they sound ?

22nd March 2005, 12:32 PM	#5
deft_bonz Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: switzerland Posts: 1,121	oups that's even worse than behringer

22nd March 2005, 04:40 PM	#9
Ribbonmicguy Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 321	But in the first place, Isn't Royer's R121 a copy of the Bang Olufsen BM5? __________________ ------------------------------ Harmoko Aguswan Big Knob Studio Right Track Productions ------------------------------ On one hand, I can certainly sympathize with the approach of "Hey, I can't hear any difference, so why should I pay that much?". On the other, I wonder why anyone who can't hear a difference is recording, mixing, or producing records. -DAVE MARTIN

22nd March 2005, 04:41 PM	#10
Jan Folkson Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 621	The suck level that some people strive to and actually achieve will never cease to amaze me. __________________ - Jan Folkson www.janfolkson.com If you can't make it good, the least you can do is make it perfect.

22nd March 2005, 04:56 PM	#11
steins Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lillehammer, Norway Posts: 500	They even got an AEA R84 clone . I actually had a TSM on trial a few years back, think it was the U49 clone. Sounded OK for a $400 Chinese mic. but it actually fell apart when I was about to put it back into its case. No kidding! Stein Tore

22nd March 2005, 05:03 PM	#12
rainsinvelvet Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: California Posts: 1,049	Has someone emailed this link / thread to Royer yet? I would bet they would be interested.... ERic

22nd March 2005, 07:13 PM	#15
Volodia Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Paris Posts: 483	It's indeed quite similar looking : B&O BM3 Attached Thumbnails

22nd March 2005, 11:33 PM	#17
fifthcircle Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,307	When the Royers first came out, I was told that they physical similarity of the 121 was based on the B&O BM3, however, the ribbon design and electronics were completely different. However, the SF-12 was a lot closer to the Speiden stereo mic, not so much the B&O (which has the ability to change the angle between the 2 ribbons if I remember correctly). --Ben __________________ Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Long Beach, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com

23rd March 2005, 06:37 AM	#18
quadwould Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London Posts: 424	they also have a TLM103 knockoff. (TSM103) the best part about thet is that they offer BOTH for sale !!!1??!?!?!?!!! However... if the Royer ripoffs are not SH1TE... theni would be in for 2. at 2000 Swedish Krone (sp?) that is about 150 quid. (or 280 USD) plus shipping and customs.. Who cares.. they are still cheap!!! This is only if they sound good. if these are the DeDRinGHer of Mics then i could care less and they should be Burnt i miss my Royer.... WIGGY stole it (KIDDING) i sold it to him, in what must have looked like a drug deal in the middle of Russell Square... (long story) Lindell.. are you able to go to this place to check it all out????

23rd March 2005, 11:50 AM	#19
tony666 Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 252	I'd also like to know if the inside of these TSM mikes is borrowed ;) from the originals?

28th March 2005, 10:19 PM	#20
GoldenAgeMusic Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Alingsås, Sweden Posts: 3	Royer clone Hi everyone, we are the Scandinavian distributor for Royer Labs and a lot of other high end pro audio (mostly US) brands. I therefor feel obliged to give you my view on this Royer clone issue that my friend Lindell has brought up in this thread: The company that is releasing the Royer clone is called Luthman (www.luthman.se). They are one of Scandinavias biggest MI distributors. Luthman is buying some Far East products, mics and more, and are selling them under their TSM brand name. That is common procedure these days. The link at the beginning of this thread is from one of their dealers, Musikcentralen. I cannot find the Royer clone on Luthmans web site. Royer Labs ARE NOT OEMing the R-121 to Luthman. I informed Royer Labs as soon as I found out and have discussed this with them. I find this interesting: If you look closely at the picture of the TSM MT82 at Musikcentralens web shop and compare it to the R-121 picture at the Royer web site, you too will very likely conclude that it is the same. This picture can also be found in printed form in the new spring/summer catalogue from Luthman. As far as I see it, a picture of a true R-121, probably from the Royer Labs web site, is at least initially used to market the MT82 clone. Look at the shaddows and note the small remains / marks that can be found on the right places where the Royer logo and models name are located on a R-121, before they apparently was removed by someone using Photoshop or a similair software. Look at the position of the screws. The TSM brand name and model no was not added though. Luthman is also using the same basic data of a R-121 for their TSM MT82. This is not the correct data of the clone! I also wonder if the clone will have the very nice finish of a R-121. I suggest that no one should expect the TSM MT82 to perform like a Royer Labs R-121. There are so many fine construction details that creates the great sound of a R-121. As we all know, there are a number of companies in our industry that are putting their own brandname on products made in the Far East. Some of these products, like the ADK mics that we are distributing, are refined and customized versions of standard China-made models. Some other products just receives a new brand name and possibly a change in the design of the visible parts. One exemple is the ribbon mic that Thomann, Luthman and NADY are selling (which as far as I know is inspired from old RCA and BBC models). We are selling it too, under the Project G name (ADK´s entry level line) and we are soon releasing a modified Golden Age Project version. It is true that low cost products from the Far East are giving many musicians and project studio owners the possibillity to buy affordable and often good products. It is also true that there are different opinions about such products that are more or less copies of existing or vintage ones. I will leave it up to everyone to make their own judgement regarding this Royer clone, it´s performance and and the way it seem to be presented to the Scandinavian market. I think you all understand how I feel about it. Best, Bo __________________ Bo Medin, Golden Age Music proaudio@goldenagemusic.se www.goldenagemusic.se

1st April 2005, 01:35 AM	#21
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Is it just me or is this a thread about a clone of a clone???? funny. D

1st April 2005, 12:37 PM	#24
KBOY Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: philadelphia Posts: 364	Quite honestly, that B&O mic looks much cooler than the Royer. Has anyone used it? How does it compare? I think two of those would look really cool sitting in front of some tomms...........................Ha!

1st April 2005, 05:08 PM	#25
heinz Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 1,011	the r121 is not a clone, it's a godsend. most useful mic I own.

17th June 2007, 10:51 PM	#29
e-cue Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 3,884	There's a glitch in the matrix.

17th June 2007, 11:17 PM	#30
Meriphew Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle USA Posts: 2,242	I think Tommy Lee just Quantum Leaped into this thread. __________________ www.myspace.com/meriphew