? Re FatsoJnr's 1176 "emulation".

stedel · 8th July 2002, 02:43 AM

Hi folks...erm Julian, if you visit....

The list price for a new 1176LN compressor over here is $4,799.
A Fatso Jnr is $5698.

Of course I want them both....but my immeadiate priority is to beef up my mic collection rather than buy both the above units straight away.But I need at least one of them.

Reviews I've read of the Fatso mention it has some sort of 1176 emulation capablity. I was hoping that anybody that uses the Fatso unit may be able to give me some indication of whether or not it is a passable and usable emulation.

Many thanks for any comments.

Kind regards

8th July 2002, 02:59 AM

Out of sheer laziness I haven' fully explored the compression 'flavors' of the Fatso Jnr

To really get rocking on the compression with the Fatso Jnr you need to feed the side chain input on them with a variable level of the source signal, (for a mono overdub the Fatso's unused channel can be harnessed for this job, or, in stereo mode, you could use an other line level device with a level knob or fader.)

It takes a little explaining, I was slightly cross eyed after the designers explanation, but I trust him.

Have a look to see if it's explained on the website.. / manual.

As to someone with an opinion of it... I have explained how I have been too lazy to 'learn it'...

So...

Fletcher?

Anyone else?

Fletcher · 8th July 2002, 02:48 PM

They're two different units, with two different purposes, and function in entirely different manners. You can, with some futzing around get something that might come close to the 1176's "4 button" trick... but you'll never have the versatility re: attack and release control.

The beauty of the FATSO Jr. is that it'll help the tracks going into your DAW have a bit greater '3rd dimension'... they'll sound less "digital" when you add a little "warmth" and/or the "tranny" button... but the fact remains that a FATSO Jr. is a FATSO Jr. and an 1176 is an 1176 and one can never really replace the other.

Best of luck with your quandary

stedel · 8th July 2002, 10:21 PM

Hi Julian and Fletcher. Thanks for replying.

"Best of luck with your quandry"

There is no "luck" with this sort of quandry - apart from winning lotto. :)

Any emulation is exactly that - an emulation and is not the real thing. I fully understand the benefits of the Fatso re adding warmth or whatever to a digital sound. I was re-reading some reviews of the unit which mentioned this feature of the Fatso, something I had overlooked when I first read them. I thought hmm...maybe this can tied me over and at least give me some sort of approximation until I bought the real thang.

I only started to consider this after I came across a couple of reviews of the new re-issue 1176LN, where the "secret 4 button trick" was commented on as having a harshness compared to older units - which apparently have a different sound unit to unit anyway. I probably pay more attention to reviews than you guys, mainly because "hands on" experience with new gear is possibly not as easy as it is for folks NIA. Just so I don't get dissed on by people over paying too much attention to reviews, although a few outlets here readily offer you a "demo" it's not as cool as it is over there. (Although the people who distribute RADAR over here are cool Fletcher! So are Fairlight and Peach Audio).

Erm don't suppose you want to open up a Wombarra branch of Mercenary do you Fletcher? Avalon, Brauner, Royer, ADAM, Drawmer,Groove Tubes, Crane Song etc. etc.
Cool little one stop shop you have there Fletcher...

Yes folks that was a totally gratuitous unashamed compliment!!!

Kind regards

alphajerk · 8th July 2002, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stedel
The list price for a new 1176LN compressor over here is $4,799.
A Fatso Jnr is $5698.

christ, why dont they just bend you over and shove a hot poker up your ass? thats retarded expensive. at least say that a studio over there makes $100/hr for what a studio here costs $50/hr. or you can buy a NICE house for $50k. otherwise, your country is ****ing you bad.

Dave Martin · 8th July 2002, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alphajerk

christ, why dont they just bend you over and shove a hot poker up your ass? thats retarded expensive. at least say that a studio over there makes $100/hr for what a studio here costs $50/hr. or you can buy a NICE house for $50k. otherwise, your country is ****ing you bad.

Um, you do realize that this is Australian dollars? 4,799 Australian Dollar = 2,711.43 US Dollar

The list price of an 1176 is $2295. Since I don't know what sort of tariffs are levied on imported electronics, I don't know what the difference of about $416 goes for. Shipping is a certain portion of that of that, but I also seem to recall some of our upside down brethren talking about import duties..

jon · 9th July 2002, 12:41 AM

Stedel,

The Universal Audio re-issues are relatively prone to maintenance problems in my experience...nothing a good tech can't handle quickly, but a PITA if you're a home studio.

Having said that, I haven't heard anything that sounds close to emulating the basic vintage 1176LN thang other than the UA re-issue (which is pretty much the real thing except that it's new and in spec) and the Purple Audio units. The Bomb Factory plugin isn't bad but it is different from the real thing. The Empirical Labs units (EL8, Fatso) are cool for the things they do well. Emulating the 1176 is not one of them IMO. They get about as close to an 1176 as, say, a dbx 160 does. IOW, it sounds different.

Jon

davemc · 9th July 2002, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alphajerk

christ, why dont they just bend you over and shove a hot poker up your ass? thats retarded expensive. at least say that a studio over there makes $100/hr for what a studio here costs $50/hr. or you can buy a NICE house for $50k. otherwise, your country is ****ing you bad.

Hey Alpha,
Nope we charge around the same $$ per hour, So yep we are screwed.

Jay Kahrs · 9th July 2002, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jon
The Universal Audio re-issues are relatively prone to maintenance problems in my experience...nothing a good tech can't handle quickly, but a PITA if you're a home studio.

What kinds of problems have you had? My 1176 has been going for about a year without any problems.

on wood

9th July 2002, 01:57 PM

Ditto mine (touch wood!)

Dave Martin · 9th July 2002, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs

What kinds of problems have you had? My 1176 has been going for about a year without any problems.

on wood

One of mine is currently having some issues - either the compressor circuit is on the fritz - and/ or the meter isn't showing gain reduction.

I'll unrack it one of these days and get it fixed...

stedel · 11th July 2002, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Martin

I'll unrack it one of these days and get it fixed...

Ah... so elegantly nonchalent....:)

My main problems, with the 1176

a. Sooner or later you have to buy one.
b. The variation in sound between one "vintage"1176 is disconcerting, however this appears to be resolved of you get then aligned properly. Then there's the same thang you get occasionally with valves. Just as they start to die...that's when you like the sound.
c. The new 1176LN's are generally percieved to add a harshness to the sound when the four button trick is used. I'm not after harshness.

Folks, to tell you the truth, after checking out some recommendations on another Topic/Post on Gearslutz, rather than getting the Fatso I am more interested in checking out the Crane Song Tracker
and IF it becomes an issue on my preferred DAW then getting one of Crane Song's Hedd units.

So cool.

Got rid of a few spikes...much smoother now!!!!

Kind regards

11th July 2002, 03:20 PM

I dont know if I misunderstood you but there are no valves in an 1176 as far as I know...

Jules

Dave Martin · 11th July 2002, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stedel

Ah... so elegantly nonchalent....:)

No, so completely slammed...

NathanEldred · 11th July 2002, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jules
I dont know if I misunderstood you but there are no valves in an 1176 as far as I know...

Oh wait Jules! You didn't hear that UA inserted a bright valve thingy in the path of the 1176? They also put one on the UAD-1 card. It looks really cool sticking out of the back of the computer.

11th July 2002, 07:11 PM

just for a second there- you had me going!

jon · 13th July 2002, 12:28 AM

The maintenance issues with our UA 1176 has been burned-out VU meter bulbs (3 times in 18 months, no biggie) and now a dead VU meter that had to be replaced.

Stedel, the 4-button thing on the UA 1176 doesn't sound harsh to me, just pumpingly violent, which is exactly what I'm after when putting a snare mult through it.

BTW I'm buying another UA 1176 (a demo unit) this week.

stedel · 19th July 2002, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alphajerk

christ, why dont they just bend you over and shove a hot poker up your ass? thats retarded expensive. at least say that a studio over there makes $100/hr for what a studio here costs $50/hr. or you can buy a NICE house for $50k. otherwise, your country is ****ing you bad.

Erm...what can I say....
I'm lost for words.
My question wasn't about inputs - I know the 1176 takes XLR's. And although I've met people who's ass's could definately squash a sound....its not my own personal method, so thanks alphajerk....so far it hasn't got that extreme...but it's true, it could be easier over here...on all recording and anatomical parts.

I've been following the comments here re the 1176's. There was never really any question in my head that I was NOT goimg to buy a new 1176. Specially now after Jon talking about "pumpingly violent" - might help keep those hot pokers alphajerk was talking about under-control. Wow, I never knew things could be so violent using compressors. Maybe that's what the "attack" control is actually for...

Sorry to hear about the maintenance issue. God, how sad. One of the saddest sights on the planet. A dead VU meter. If it happens to the 1176LN I buy - I'll sue for emotional grief and anxiety caused by....

The four button trick? Well it's tricky making brand new old things. I figured it's sound would probably change over a while anyway....

Hmm I'll check out the warrentee v...e...r...r...y...c...a...r..e...fully.

Many thanks for the replies folks.

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8th July 2002, 02:43 AM	#1
stedel Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bathurst Australia Posts: 169	? Re FatsoJnr's 1176 "emulation". Hi folks...erm Julian, if you visit.... The list price for a new 1176LN compressor over here is $4,799. A Fatso Jnr is $5698. Of course I want them both....but my immeadiate priority is to beef up my mic collection rather than buy both the above units straight away.But I need at least one of them. Reviews I've read of the Fatso mention it has some sort of 1176 emulation capablity. I was hoping that anybody that uses the Fatso unit may be able to give me some indication of whether or not it is a passable and usable emulation. Many thanks for any comments. Kind regards

8th July 2002, 02:48 PM	#3
Fletcher 3 + infractions, membership under review with GS admin Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA Posts: 5,783	They're two different units, with two different purposes, and function in entirely different manners. You can, with some futzing around get something that might come close to the 1176's "4 button" trick... but you'll never have the versatility re: attack and release control. The beauty of the FATSO Jr. is that it'll help the tracks going into your DAW have a bit greater '3rd dimension'... they'll sound less "digital" when you add a little "warmth" and/or the "tranny" button... but the fact remains that a FATSO Jr. is a FATSO Jr. and an 1176 is an 1176 and one can never really replace the other. Best of luck with your quandary __________________ [COLOR="White"][/COLOR] [SIZE="2"][b]Fletcher[/b][/SIZE] If you have a question please email me at [email]Fletcher@mercenary.com[/email] instead of using the PM system... I very rarely check that system and it could take a while to get a response. I can also be found at either address below: [size=2][url=http://recforums.prosoundweb.com][b]R/E/P[/b][/url][/size] the [b]R[/b]ecording [b]E[/b]ngineer and [b]P[/b]roducer forums [url=http://www.mercenary.com][b]Mercenary Audio[/b][/url] [size=1][b]mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33[/b] We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid [b][url=http://www.ericambel.com/index.htm]Roscoe[/url] Ambel once said[/b]: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light[/size]

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8th July 2002, 02:59 AM	#2
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	Out of sheer laziness I haven' fully explored the compression 'flavors' of the Fatso Jnr To really get rocking on the compression with the Fatso Jnr you need to feed the side chain input on them with a variable level of the source signal, (for a mono overdub the Fatso's unused channel can be harnessed for this job, or, in stereo mode, you could use an other line level device with a level knob or fader.) It takes a little explaining, I was slightly cross eyed after the designers explanation, but I trust him. Have a look to see if it's explained on the website.. / manual. As to someone with an opinion of it... I have explained how I have been too lazy to 'learn it'... So... Fletcher? Anyone else?

8th July 2002, 10:21 PM	#4
stedel Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bathurst Australia Posts: 169	Hi Julian and Fletcher. Thanks for replying. "Best of luck with your quandry" There is no "luck" with this sort of quandry - apart from winning lotto. :) Any emulation is exactly that - an emulation and is not the real thing. I fully understand the benefits of the Fatso re adding warmth or whatever to a digital sound. I was re-reading some reviews of the unit which mentioned this feature of the Fatso, something I had overlooked when I first read them. I thought hmm...maybe this can tied me over and at least give me some sort of approximation until I bought the real thang. I only started to consider this after I came across a couple of reviews of the new re-issue 1176LN, where the "secret 4 button trick" was commented on as having a harshness compared to older units - which apparently have a different sound unit to unit anyway. I probably pay more attention to reviews than you guys, mainly because "hands on" experience with new gear is possibly not as easy as it is for folks NIA. Just so I don't get dissed on by people over paying too much attention to reviews, although a few outlets here readily offer you a "demo" it's not as cool as it is over there. (Although the people who distribute RADAR over here are cool Fletcher! So are Fairlight and Peach Audio). Erm don't suppose you want to open up a Wombarra branch of Mercenary do you Fletcher? Avalon, Brauner, Royer, ADAM, Drawmer,Groove Tubes, Crane Song etc. etc. Cool little one stop shop you have there Fletcher... Yes folks that was a totally gratuitous unashamed compliment!!! Kind regards

9th July 2002, 12:41 AM	#7
jon Capitol Studios Paris Join Date: May 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 1,315	Stedel, The Universal Audio re-issues are relatively prone to maintenance problems in my experience...nothing a good tech can't handle quickly, but a PITA if you're a home studio. Having said that, I haven't heard anything that sounds close to emulating the basic vintage 1176LN thang other than the UA re-issue (which is pretty much the real thing except that it's new and in spec) and the Purple Audio units. The Bomb Factory plugin isn't bad but it is different from the real thing. The Empirical Labs units (EL8, Fatso) are cool for the things they do well. Emulating the 1176 is not one of them IMO. They get about as close to an 1176 as, say, a dbx 160 does. IOW, it sounds different. Jon

9th July 2002, 01:57 PM	#10
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	Ditto mine (touch wood!)

11th July 2002, 03:20 PM	#13
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	I dont know if I misunderstood you but there are no valves in an 1176 as far as I know... Jules

11th July 2002, 07:11 PM	#16
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	just for a second there- you had me going!

13th July 2002, 12:28 AM	#17
jon Capitol Studios Paris Join Date: May 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 1,315	The maintenance issues with our UA 1176 has been burned-out VU meter bulbs (3 times in 18 months, no biggie) and now a dead VU meter that had to be replaced. Stedel, the 4-button thing on the UA 1176 doesn't sound harsh to me, just pumpingly violent, which is exactly what I'm after when putting a snare mult through it. BTW I'm buying another UA 1176 (a demo unit) this week.