Who do you clash with? Do you know your self well enough?

[Jules]

I have realized that I clash badly with artists with this type of personality / style.

- The nerdy, 'super bright', 'know it all' visionary songwriter.

They just piss me off. I am wholly unsuited to working with this type!

Because they "know everything" about the song and the process of recording, it leaves their super sized brain - to pick up on every single fault, crackle or temporary technical set back in my day. Also, liberated from having to concentrate on their production like a normal person, their super brains are free to think up 101 questions about engineering, so that by the time the project is finished, they KNOW ALL ABOUT THAT TOO! Lightly sprinkle this with weirdo metabolisms that require NO FOOD BREAKS WHATSOVER (they spend this 'wasted work time' looking pained, at their watches, wondering how long the interruption to their project will last)

I have had several sessions with folks like this, I hope now I am able to spot them in advance and avoid them for good! Dont get me wrong hanging out is fine but I can't hack working in the studio with them.

Who do YOU clash with?

[cram]

Who do YOU clash with?

Humans.

[Jules]

That's normal for your line of work!
grggt

[pounce]

i've had an excellent misanthropic streak for some time now.

mostly it's just me being very "over " working with punk rock kiddie bands, any hip hop, or church lady types that can't figure out why i charge money at all - after all they are a church. well lady, i'm an atheist and i need to eat ya know.

i've got to share my mixing area with an engineer during this next week at a high level event. he and i rub each other the wrong way. odd, i can't point to some single thing that's wrong, we just don't like each other. he brings an a2, and the a2 is super great. if we could get rid of the a1 i'd be a very happy guy.

i get along very well with a huge percentage of technical people. it's hit or miss with the talent. anyone passionate about what they do is someone i will get along with and be very willing to help.

[crispy]

The breadheads.

Y'know, the ones who really shouldn't be recording in your studio because they can't afford it. So they bitch and moan about every little thing that might hold up their session and expect that the clock stops everytime you go to the toilet or fix a mis-patched cue send (usually the singer un-plugging his/her headphones for whatever reason and plugging back into the wrong socket). They refuse to pay tape costs ("we weren't told about this when we spoke to your office!"), and as Jules pointed out, assume you have some kind of superhuman stamina to work 10 hours a day, everyday, without any food or breaks!

I had one guy at the end of a couple days recording insist that I then provide rough mixes from 10 tracks "because I have to have them, man!" and freaked out because it would have taken the session into overtime. He could not understand that if I was going to stay behind for two hours, I was wanting to be paid for it.

I do have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of this comes from the fact that a lot of these people have an impression of studio life that they hear from the big guys & rock 'n' roll legend. You know, getting in at 2pm in the afternoon and coming out at 6am the next day. What they don't acknowlede is that you PAY for this big time. Those facilities cater for this nutty behaviour, us little guys just can't do that shit and stay sane at the same time.

Rock and Roll!

[chrisso]

Indecisive people.
Life is too short to try every guitar sound, spend a day experimenting with hi-hat or kick drum patterns.
It's hard to pick these people out as they often pretend to be positive at first.
Everytime I hear the phrase "what would it sound like if we.....?"
I shudder.

[Fletcher]

I can't handle people who try to play their instrument at a level above their capabilities... and people who feel the spiritual need to absolutely remove any trace of imperfection... but do so in a manner that makes watching grass grow a real treat.

The bass player that showed up at a session with a 6 string bass, shaved head [he was like a 21 yr. old Berklee kid], parachute pants, zero knowledge of who "Duck Dunn" is... and tries to lay down a part with less "soul" to it than one of Al and Tipper Gore's dinner parties.

I don't give a shit if someone plays 1 note over 2 bars, or 200 notes per measure... all I ask is that they play them with conviction. This kid had all the "accessories", but none of the substance... it bugged me.

The people you record that have amazing talent... until the "producer" begins to assert his "talents" for finding every minute detail and obsesses on the "trees" forgetting the "forest".

There was one "producer" I worked with who I could read like a book. Everytime I thought the singer had performed a vocal line with a great presentation and emotion (that's right... we were pretty much going a 'line at a time')... that was the line we were going to 'redo'... everytime I thought a line had been delivered by the singer with all the soul of a park bench... that was the line that was kept.

His incredible talent for 'white washing' a performance into absolute ****ing oblivion took what I thought was a potentially promising career and flushed it right down the crapper... but golly... he looked like a completely together, detail oriented, golden eared fair haired boy as he spent days getting the "perfect" performance of vocal tracks that should have been cut in 4 hours. The singer was a pretty ****ing excellent singer... but at the end of the day, the presentation had less emotion than a beer commercial.

I don't mind the 'thousand question' types... I can diffuse them rather easily with an "I have to concentrate on this right now... I'll explain it to you in detail later"... and if they remember to ask me later I will... and if they don't... **** 'um, it couldn't have really been that important to them.

[NYC Drew]

People who get paid to do a job, are aware that they have neither the qualifications or experience, and proceed to bullshit their way through it.

[ProFool]

People who promise too much, thinking they are Axl Rose himself
Showing up 6 hours too late or sometimes 2 day's!!!
Never show up sober or clean.
People who just Focus on how there demo or CD wil look like on the outside & Talking about how famous they wil be when there CD is ready.
Spending more time & money on the Photo shoots than they spend being in the studio and work on the music!!!
Then asking & blaming me why the job ain't done yet !!!Duh

Oooh that type pisses me off!!! fuuck that

[ultima]

Hear Hear

[chrisso]

Originally posted by ProFool

Spending more time & money on the Photo shoots than they spend being in the studio and work on the music!!!

Or if you're in the UK, spending more time and money on the dance routine.

Shouldn't this thread be in The Moan Zone?
Or would I be clashing with Jules if I said so

[e-cue]

I clash with "half assers". The whole "play the track down and well beat detective it" or "sing the song down 18983922 times and whatever we can't comp we'll autotune the life out of" thing.

Oh yeah, and A&R people.

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by Jules
Who do YOU clash with?

People who can't say 'you suck' in my face but do it behind my back.

People who can't stand it when I say 'you suck' in their face.

[chap]

2 types:
The 'Bell Guy' - is an account rep for an ad agency that shows up 2 weeks into a project that sounds great and pisses on the hydrant by putting his hand on his chin and saying 'Something's wrong here. I know! It needs a bell at 9 minutes and 23 frames into that segment" Every time the segment is played, he'll muse to himself "Yeah, that bell ties it all together". Thanks Bell Guy, now sit in the corner with your cell phone and have a nice cup of shut the **** up.

The Husband Co Producer -
I sat slack jawed one night as a husband brow beat his wife into singing a line (I made hash marks)
137 times. That's one hundred and thirty seven times. The takes got worse and worse as the perfectly good singer's confidence evaporated more and more with each brow beating.
My advice (just before I quit the project) was for the husband to concentrate on satisfying his wife in ways that I could not and leave the production to me. The album later came out as bland as detergent. No more couples! You're either stuck in the middle or the odd man out.

[BevvyB]

chap -

I've done many commercials. That guy you're talking about is a ****** but the bastard keeps changing his name and wearing a different check shirt at every new commercial recording.

I've done married couples.

When I say I've done married couples of course I mean I've recorded them.

They're rubbish. Nothing at all like Peters and Lee.

http://peterslee.cjb.net/

[BevvyB]

OK, so they weren't married.

I think what I'm trying to say is that if you're going to work with a couple, make sure one of them can't see what you're doing.

[Jules]

"Shouldn't this thread be in The Moan Zone?
Or would I be clashing with Jules if I said so"

nope!

"Gear, gonzo rock n rolling on a DAW + session & music biz politics" Moderated by Jules - it says in the forum description!

Session politics!

Bring it on!

rollz

[pounce]

i'd like to think that everywhere i happen to be is an impromptu moan zone, so there.

[chap]

Your damn straight. It's better if one can't see
than if one can't sing (or hear).

How bout getting paid while they play 'good cop/bad cop'?.

Here's another one - The Mouse Guy-
True story. After a week of work on a commercial production, I said 'That's it. We're done, sounds great, let's do the breakout mixes"
From the couch I hear Bell Guy say "It sounds great but could you put just a little more mouse on it?" A bit shocked I asked him to clarify whereupon he said "That mouse sounds great everytime you use it so just add a little bit more" I said "Say when" and began rolling the track ball (vintage Kensington for that warm, analog sound). After 30 or 40 seconds of rolling, he said "Perfect, just what it needed". I agreed that it did need a bit more mouse and he had made a great call. Those guys know their stuff.

[pounce]

I agreed that it did need a bit more mouse and he had made a great call. Those guys know their stuff. [/B]

wow, just wow. a classic.

[Jax]

People who can't find the end of a project. I'm partially to blame, but I wouldn't let it happen again. Especially for no money.

Before I moved into a real studio, a former bandmate learned that I had a pretty good recording rig. He was doing singer/songwriter with an ac. gtr. I agreed to do 3 songs and if it was going well, maybe do two more after that. "Maybe." Well, never leave things undefined if you're not sure how committed you'll be in x amount of time. A full year later and a dozen songs into it, the project was finally done. I didn't really clash with the guy because we're friends, but what pissed me off is he barely said thank you for all the time and effort it took, not to mention that archiving his project would cost money. So I didn't back it up. I'm bothered by people who milk it and even more bothered that I let it happen. Suffice to say I've learned my lesson and won't let it happen again.

[Jax]

People who are dazzled by reverb and shiny, bright objects get on my nerves. When I open a reverb preset on a track, they go "ooooo.... yeah more of that." It can be any effect, or it can get bogged down in trying out things that can be done with a DAW (easier than with tape). "Yeah, reverse that part and make it play against the forward version of itself."

What really bugs me is when they see the cool graphics of some plug in and start saying they want to use that on every track, because "ooo.... that looks like it's good."

Pretty quickly I have to slap them back into reality and tell them what makes a difference and what doesn't. Or just tell them I need to be alone to mix for a few hours.

[5down1up]

to keep it short :

i hate everybody

now we can talk bout what i like , hrhrhr


PEACE

[Logan]

Whoa let me get the list out, let's see there's ah ,oh he's dead, so we move on to, nope dead as well, guess we're on to, nope she OD, so there's ah nope there's that nasty court order concerning them, hmmm, **** I guess I get along with everyone. Take care Logan

[Tim L]

Shitty people!

As for knowing myself... I find these days I have much less patience for assholes. I also find I'm no longer able to keep a "poker face" when I've come to the realization that an individual is indeed an asshole. Not exactly good if you wan't to make money doing this stuff.

[crispy]

Doing the ALL important GUITAR SOLO....

We're going to tape (Soundcraft 760 mkII) as talent does not want to use Soundscape. I have no problem with this, I prefer tape anyway.

Talent is kind of guy who can't stand anyone messing with or interrupting his 'vibe' e.g. me going to the loo between takes. His 'vibe' means making sure every second of studio time counts, so I mark just one track as I presume he's going to want to knock this out in a couple of passes and move on.....WRONG!

So we do solo...talent is apparently 'warming up' at this stage so we do a few more runs (although he has been playing guitar all day).
Solo is approx 32 bars long (!). Talent feels the second half is not quite hanging together and wants me to drop in. I should mark another track for this, but I can see the shit flying later when I 'waste time' comping tracks, so I keep on the same one as I have no problem with my ability to punch in on flying 16th notes.

I've played with some major guitar players in the past and honestly can't tell exactly what it is he's not pleased with.

We do this half of the solo FIFTEEN times! I'm dropping in further back in almost 5ms increments (!) to avoid a noticeable dropout and I can't quite believe I'm managing to pull it off.

Eventually satisfied, he nods his approval.

"Okay" he says, "I want to go back and re-do the first half now...."

[renshen]

I can't count the times i would grab an eq control on the channel strip next to the one that was actually being used, because weasel guy is watching. There will be no fooling him. So he watches me turn the eq, and engage a couple pre / post aux sends and then wretches his face into a position that my mother used to warn me about. "you know your face will freeze like that".
Captain weasel then says " stop, wait a second. Closes his eyes and activates muscles in his face I didn't even know he had, click....click....click....click.....and says.

Yeah, now we got it, his eyes open and he looks at the talent as if he had just parted the sea and drove his 1975 rusted out honda through.

Intimidating the talent into submission, and prooving himself.
you remember him from "The good, the bad , the ugly and the weasel", very famous, this guy knows everybody.

Oh, I also think most people are idiots (I include myself), but I like the ones who admit to it.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Jax
People who can't find the end of a project.

YESSSSS!

In the middle of that one on an album now. We've now passed up the correct freeway exit, 4 truck stops, a couple of speed traps and are on our way to running out of emotional gas.

And he's still paranoid we haven't put enough "stuff" on it.

Heeeeeelp meeeeeeeeee..............


Brian T

[BrianT]

Originally posted by posterchild
I tend to clash with anyone who only wants to hear THEIR instrument and refuses to hear things as part of a broader arrangement or mix. I don't mean they only want to hear their instrument when playing; I mean they only want to hear their instrument in the final mix -- to hell with the rest of the band grudge

Joe English, the drummer in Wings, told me about a band experiment McCartney wanted to try.

So it's time to mix "Band On The Run" and Paul brings everybody into the CR. He has the engineer set up and clearly label faders according to instrument. And he wants each player in the band to control the faders for their own instrument. Looking for that same magic band interaction as when playing.

Joe's thrilled, since he has the most faders, being a drummer. Garrrreat!!

Joe said that every single fader on the console was topped out before they got out of the first chorus and they all started laughing and bailed.

LOL. You gotta love that, eh? True story.


Regards,
Brian T

[joeq]

I had a guy who would ask for more bass, then after 5 minutes would ask for more drums. Then 5 minutes later the guitars need to be louder. Then the vocals and now back to bass.

Finally I grabbed the CR monitor knob and turned the volume on the speakers up.

"That's perfect. What did you do?"