Problem w/ my mixer/ this doesn't make any sense.

[Jonk]

Hey everyone,
I just thought I'd post this incase anyone can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I'll try to keep it as brief as I can.

I got a free Biamp 12 channel mixer recently that had the plastic trs jacks breaking off all over the place, but it was free so I thought hey I'll just order some new jacks from Redco and solder 'em on myself.

Anyway, it should be the simplest thing in the world but it's getting bizarre.

The mixer has a wierd sort of mono main out jack that I figured I'm not going to use, in addition to another mono monitor out jack, which I'm also not going to use. So don't pay any attention to that last sentence.

I want to go out of the sub 1 and 2 jacks to monitor because they're actually the stereo pair (the pan pots on the channels pan between sub outs 1 and 2)

On each channel, there is an XLR mic input, a line level trs input, and an individual trs output also for every channel.

Okay so, what I did first was

1. replaced the sub output 1 and 2 jacks (and a few other reverb send and return jacks which aren't important right now)

2. Then I tested sub 1 out w/ a mic plugged into the xlr input of channel 4, panned the channel to the left. Pushed sub 1 out fader up . It worked great. Signal was coming through my speakers.

3. Then I did a similar test running a line level signal into the same channel's (ch. 4) trs jack which happened to not be broken off yet. Pan to left. Push up sub 1 out fader. Good. Works fine. Everything going great.

4. Then I start replacing the input and output trs jacks on the individual channels
One of these channels is channel 4. So now I have a brand new trs input jack and a new trs output jack on channel 4.

5. I test channel 4 now by running a line level signal in through it's new trs in, and then directly out through it's new trs output.
Great. That works, and sounds good.

6. Then I pan it to the left and push up the fader on sub 1 out and there's nothing.
Okay, so,
this isn't making sense to me because the new jacks are working when I'm going directly in and out of the channel, so I have them wired up right, but the signal is somehow not making it to sub 1 out. What's wierd is it was before I replaced the old jack with the new one.

So I thought maybe I accidentally pulled a solder joint or something on channel 4's pcb board,or I don't know , but maybe it's an isolated incident.

What's stranger still is that it keeps happening on other channels too.

I test the channel by running a line level signal in through the old (ready to break) plastic trs jack, send it to sub 1 out. It works. Then when I replace the plastic jack, the new jacks work when signal is sent directly in and out of them, but when I send it to sub 1 out, I'm getting nothing.

Anybody have an idea what's going on here?

Did you use the right kind of jacks? Do the old ones have the switching thing, like it cuts a normal when you plug in?

Odd how this forum has high enders who hate computers and people trying to resurrect junk like this... Not dissing you, I have lots of old junk too, just interesting!

Good luck!

[Jonk]

Hmmm,

This likely could be the case.


Could you explain a little more how that works, and how it would affect what's going on?

the individual output trs' did actually have 4 connections, but it looked like they were using a bar to connect one of the sleeve connections to the ground. And there were only three wires coming out of the jack, so I just soldered the three wires up to the new connector, ground to ground/ I could tell which was the tip, that was obvious/and the other went to the sleeve.

I actually tried flipping the ground and sleeve wire in one instance but that didin't make any difference.
The direct out still worked, but it wasn't going to sub 1 out. Hmmm. That's strange too.

Here's a suggestion that may help: find the model number on the back. Go to
http://www.biamp.com/index.php?pg=products/download and find it and download the manual - probably in the discontinued list. That will help.

You know how many home stereo stuff has a headphone jack that disconnects the speakers? That may be how they did this. There's a switching mechanism in the jack that has a normal thru connection that is disconnected when you plug into it.

I'm not going into the specifics - it's something I learned when I was about 12, before this unit was designed, so I may be wrong about the design.

Post the model number here and if I can help I will. But it is not a very good unit, nothing I have seen of old Biamps is worth this much effort to me, but you oughta get it right even if you give it away later. My feeling is to make it right even if you aren't going to use certain ins and outs... someone else might!

Here's what you want - Redco does not list these at all! I have attempted to attach the pdf - it shows you how the jacks work.

<L>

Followup: If it is a Rackmax2 the extra jack marked "Patch" is an insert jack that does interrupt the signal from each channel. You need the jacks with the switching mechanism...

[Jonk]

Hey Thanks for the info Lou,

I have looked at the biamp site already, and they don't have this particular units' manual, or the 16 channel version.

It's a 1283. I know I wouldn't mix an album on it, that's for my Yamaha PM1000, but I like the sound of it better than the Tascam M216 I have been using to monitor w/ my HD24 when I take my portable rack to go record in a different room. So when I got it for free and found I kind of liked what I heard I thought, "awesome, I'll sell the tascam and have a little extra dough" for something else.

I know what you're saying about headphone jacks disabling the main outs on stereos, but that's when the headphone jack is actually plugged in.

In this case, though, even when I use the xlr in w/ a mic (and nothing is plugged into the trs line in or trs channel out) there is nothing coming out of sub 1 (or sub 2 for that matter) But before I replaced the trs jacks on that channel, I was able to go:
Mic>XLR channel in>sub 1 out.

Okay, this is probably getting very convoluted so I'll do it like this because reading back, it may be a little confusing:

Before trs channel jack replacements.

Mic>XLR>sub 1 out works.

After trs line in and out for that very same channel are replaced, the same signal path that didn't even incorporate the trs jacks in the first place doesn't work.

Mic>XLR>sub 1 out doesn't work anymore.

?

That's what really confuses me.

This is so basic it hardly belongs here - go back to the beginning. Find out what an insert does. Look a couple of messages up and look at the jack schematic. If nothing is plugged in, it sends the signal on ("speaker" is how it is marked). You replaced the jack with one that does *not* have the switch mechanism, so it does NOT send the signal on thru to the bus. This must be so because the Reco site does not even list this type of jack.

Use a multitester on the jacks you have not replaced yet, and see where the signal flows. Bring in a buddy and braibstorm about it.

Then go look at some of the hight end forums here and see what people are monitoring thru - I use a Mackie and am embarrassed to admit it amongt these people. That biamp was free, because it destroys the sound going thru it! I wouldn';t even touch it if I cared about hearing good sound!

Have you ever done electronic repairs before? Doesn't sound like it. I'm not flaming but really do not want to waste any more time helping you fix junk!

Well sorry if it sounded so pissy, but it does not seem you really know what you are doing replacing parts! That's all. This is not a complicated procedure.

We used to have adults on Gearslutz. I worked with Mackies for 20 years, and most geearslutz's put them down mercilesssly. I was just being honest - I cannot teach you normal repair procedures.

You are welcome for the tidbits of advice.

Hmm, I got notified that there was a reply. Guess it got deleted. Here's what he said, if anyone cares:
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Then why even ****ing reply?

Jeez, sorry to waste your precious time. Is there anything you don't know that I can ridicule you for asking questions about? I guess not.
****ing elitist

The reason I want to use this mixer is because it sounds way better than my Tascam M216 which sounds way better than a mackie. Not to mention more unique.
On second thought, maybe I will mix an album on it.
***************
so I give up!

[dkelley]

what an amusing thread! My how it degraded quickly... for the record, my tascam m-224 is somewhat nicer sounding than the mackie vlz I used at a remote recently, so I tend to agree with the topic poster about that. No, he may not know how inserts work on a mixer, but then he's never had to use them has he?

gearslutz isn't just for older experienced guys like us, and certainly not just for the true elite who hang around here sometimes (I read an amazing thread on here between some guys that have recorded Michael Jackson in the thriller days and before... holy crap there are some legends on here!). But it is also for the younger people who are getting into the studio life.

However, dear poster, I do heartilly recommend a more introductory level discussion board such as http://www.homerecording.com/bbs that is definitely a board that will try to help you out if they are able. It doesn't have the really experienced guys in there very often, but it does have lots of people who are the type you're trying to learn from I believe.

On this board I generally just read and learn. On the other board I tend to offer advice more as I am comparatively senior in that realm. On this board I'm a nobody. It's all relative I suppose!

How's that project going anyway with the free mixer? does it really sound that good? I'm curious!

Cheers,
Don

[cchord59]

Originally Posted by Lou Judson

This is so basic it hardly belongs here - go back to the beginning. Find out what an insert does. Look a couple of messages up and look at the jack schematic. If nothing is plugged in, it sends the signal on ("speaker" is how it is marked). You replaced the jack with one that does *not* have the switch mechanism, so it does NOT send the signal on thru to the bus. This must be so because the Reco site does not even list this type of jack.

Use a multitester on the jacks you have not replaced yet, and see where the signal flows. Bring in a buddy and braibstorm about it.

Then go look at some of the hight end forums here and see what people are monitoring thru - I use a Mackie and am embarrassed to admit it amongt these people. That biamp was free, because it destroys the sound going thru it! I wouldn';t even touch it if I cared about hearing good sound!

Have you ever done electronic repairs before? Doesn't sound like it. I'm not flaming but really do not want to waste any more time helping you fix junk!

I own a biamp board, that I use to run mixes through, and I don't know if its different than the one you're talking about, but my board sounds quite good. its a biamp 1642 professional mixer. Its got 16 channels of jensen tranformer balanced mic and line ins. Not super versitlie, but way better sounding that newer mid level boards. running signal through it makes things sound better.

[aldgreen]

Originally Posted by dkelley

However, dear poster, I do heartilly recommend a more introductory level discussion board such as http://www.homerecording.com/bbs that is definitely a board that will try to help you out if they are able. It doesn't have the really experienced guys in there very often, but it does have lots of people who are the type you're trying to learn from I believe.

On this board I generally just read and learn. On the other board I tend to offer advice more as I am comparatively senior in that realm. On this board I'm a nobody. It's all relative I suppose!
Don

You so funny. There are people with 30+ years experience and everywhere in between on homerecording.com. I find info there I can’t find anywhere else, especially in the analog forum and the mastering forum. Some of those guys have been around the block a few times.

Highly talented and experienced people have landed on many forums on the web. Music recording forums are basically all the same no matter what name the webmaster chose to give them.