What do you think of 70's Gretsch kick drums?

[Jonk]

There's a guy close to me who is selling a (1978? I believe) 20"X18" maple Gretsch kick drum.

It's about an hour and a half drive so I'm gonna make a trip of it if I decide I'm interested, but I thought I'd ask what you guys think of that size/year.

I'm hardly a drum buff. I havn't been playing for very long and I must admit, I havn't been paying attention to the dimensions of the drums people are playing when I like the sound. Doh!
I like older Gretsch drums generally but I'm wondering what the 70's sets (particularly the kicks) were like.


But anyway, a couple questions from a novice.

What's going to sound different between say a 24" kick and a 20", or between a length of 14, 16, 18?

Is a 24X16 kick going to have less overtones than say, the 20X18 that this guy has?

Does a 20" diameter mean you can tune it lower before it goes floppy?

Anyway, any info would be helpful.
Also, what's the deal with the different kind of plys? I mean we're talking the ply of the wood right? He says this Gretsch kick is 6 or 8 ply he can't remember but that seems kind of lousy compared to the 3 ply drums I keep seeing when doing research.
The lower the ply the better the tone right? because the wood is more solid?

I don't know though. I'm just assuming.

Right now I have a 60's slingerland kit w/ a 22X14 kick so I'm thinking it would be cool to have a kick of fairly different dimensions.

?

[Sharp11]

Originally Posted by Jonk

There's a guy close to me who is selling a (1978? I believe) 20"X18" maple Gretsch kick drum.

It's about an hour and a half drive so I'm gonna make a trip of it if I decide I'm interested, but I thought I'd ask what you guys think of that size/year.

I'm hardly a drum buff. I havn't been playing for very long and I must admit, I havn't been paying attention to the dimensions of the drums people are playing when I like the sound. Doh!
I like older Gretsch drums generally but I'm wondering what the 70's sets (particularly the kicks) were like.


But anyway, a couple questions from a novice.

What's going to sound different between say a 24" kick and a 20", or between a length of 14, 16, 18?

Is a 24X16 kick going to have less overtones than say, the 20X18 that this guy has?

Does a 20" diameter mean you can tune it lower before it goes floppy?

Anyway, any info would be helpful.
Also, what's the deal with the different kind of plys? I mean we're talking the ply of the wood right? He says this Gretsch kick is 6 or 8 ply he can't remember but that seems kind of lousy compared to the 3 ply drums I keep seeing when doing research.
The lower the ply the better the tone right? because the wood is more solid?

I don't know though. I'm just assuming.

Right now I have a 60's slingerland kit w/ a 22X14 kick so I'm thinking it would be cool to have a kick of fairly different dimensions.

?

The standard bass drum diameter for rock n roll is the tried and true 22 by 14.

Gretsch kits were always the mainstay (when I was growing up) in the jazz world, the 18 inch BD being the standard. The Allman Brothers had two drummers, one with a gretsch kit with the 18 inch BD.

Danny Seraphine, of "Chicago" recorded many of the early CTA albums with a 20 inch Slingerland BD, he always got a higher pitched, fairly dry BD sound (tuned that way intentionally, I suspect), a good compliment to Cetera's picked Precision bass.

You can't go wrong with any 6 ply Gretsch drum or kit. Like all good kids growing up in the late 60's early 70's, I had a Ludwig kit, in my case, the "Hollywood" model, it was a good sounding kit, but the workmanship and quality were way below the Gretsch five piece I now own, these drums just record beautifully, the toms are extraordinary and the quality impeccable.

How can you miss, it's another color.

Ed

[cgarges]

I really dig the Gretsch bass drums from all eras, although there were delivery problems with the company between the late eighties and fairly recently. The build quality was always good and the drums generally sound pretty great. My favorite Gretsch bass drums have consistently been late sixties 14x20s and 14x18s, but that's just my personal preference.

My guess is that the drum you're checking out is either a 14x20 or possibly a 16x20. An 18x20 would certainly have been a custom-built item in the 70s. A 20" diameter is not going to sound like a 24" drum no matter what you do to it. Still, I really like 20" bass drums because they have a well-defined tone and a pretty decent tuning range useful for a variety of styles.

Check out the drum and if you like it and the price is right, grab it. If not, hold off for something else. There are too many great drums out there for you to buy something you don't really want.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[cgarges]

By the way, ply configurations can be misleading. The thickness of the plies determine the overall thickness of the shell, which affects the density of the sound. Different manufacturers had different ply configurations, even during different periods in their history. Gretsch drums generally had thinner shells than most other manufactures of similar periods. Either way, I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics of that stuff enough to let it influence your decision without hearing the drum. Listen to the drum and determine whether or not it's for you. If you really dig thin shells and the drum is out-of-round, the ply configuration won't mater at all.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Sharp11]

Originally Posted by cgarges

By the way, ply configurations can be misleading. The thickness of the plies determine the overall thickness of the shell, which affects the density of the sound. Different manufacturers had different ply configurations, even during different periods in their history. Gretsch drums generally had thinner shells than most other manufactures of similar periods. Either way, I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics of that stuff enough to let it influence your decision without hearing the drum. Listen to the drum and determine whether or not it's for you. If you really dig thin shells and the drum is out-of-round, the ply configuration won't mater at all.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Chris,

The bass drum shell of the Ludwig kit I had finally warped right where the tom mount was located. I also had a lot of problems with that kit in terms of roundness of the beads, heads used to sometimes split seemingly for no reason.

That kit was my pride and joy, though, it was built in october of '67, was pearl white and the excitement I felt as a kid getting behind those drums is indescribable.

The supraphonic 400 snare was a nice recording drum, I did all my early jingle work with this kit and the snare always sounded nice and fat.

The new drums are Gretsch from the early 90's, the quality really impressed me after having had the Ludwigs for so many years, of course, I'm certain the new drums benefitted from 25 years of manufacturing improvements.

Ed

[Drumsound]

Ed,

I do believe that Gretsch has made their drums generally the same since the 40s or 50s. They definitely have a tonality to them. I believe the baring edge, shell thickness are a big part of that. Deeper still I think using fewer lugs on small toms makes a big difference. I also believe the gray interior paint effects the tone and is an integral part of the tone, but I could be being superstitious on that.

I play a 1990 Gretsch that I will never get rid of. Plays great, records great, looks great. I've been thinking about adding a bigger BD and floor-tom as well.

Jonk,
If the drum's in good shape you should be fine. It might be really cool even. Chris is probably right on the sizes (he knows everything!).

Sharp11,

Yes Gretsch drums are popular in jazz, but there in plenty of rock done on Gretsch drum-sets. A lot of records made in LA use one of many Gretsch sets provided by the drum Doctors. I've seen many photos and video clips of name cats with endorsement deals playing on Gretsch drums. The reason?


"That Great Gretsch Sound!"

[Steffmo]

I've always been a big Gretch fan...played a kind of crazy kit with a 24 by 14 kick through the 80's.

Gretch shells are reakky thin and hace great tone. I always preferred the natural wood finishes with Gretsch as they did not damp the drum. I always ordered mine with no mounters so there would be no hole in the shell.

Gretsch specialized in smaller bass drums, but they sound like cannons when tuned right. Really....with drums its tuning, tuning, and more tuning that determines what you get.

Sounds like a nice drum to own.

[Jonk]

Hey thanks guys.

Glad you're posting here Chris while tapeop is down.

I thought it was a pretty long drum myself (from the description), but after talking to him on the phone, he did say that he custom ordered that size from Gretsch.

I think I'm gonna take a little drive in the next few days.

[brendondp]

FWIW, I've got a Stop-Sign Badge 26"x14" that I love and will never part with, ever.

While I could ramble on about plys, and bearing edges and finishes, suffice to say that even guitarists comment on its' sound, which is a rarity I can assure you.

But I second Chris's advice that if upon hearing it you don't fall in love, don't panic, I'm constantly amazed at the number of vintage stuff that turns up all over the place. Hell, I even bought mine off ebay, in one piece, just as described, from a nice guy who sent it all the way to NZ.

Cheers,

bdp

[Steffmo]

Gretsch in the late 80's early 90's made killer drum kits in the Phil Collins line. the coolest thing were the bass drums...usially 18 or 20 by 24.

Killer sound....the length of the drum does more to generate the low tones than the width.

[cgarges]

Hey guys, thanks for the kind words.

Originally Posted by Drumsound

I do believe that Gretsch has made their drums generally the same since the 40s or 50s.

I can say that there have been a few differences in Gretsch manufacturing over the years. I'm pretty sure that somewhere between the sixties and eighties, the shells got a bit thicker. About that I could be wrong, but I believe that is the case. I do know that the cut of the bearing edges changed somewhere during that period, too. The pre-1970 (stop sign logo) drums that I have seen all have reverse-cut edges on the toms--that is, the edges are cut upward from the outside of the shell to the interior ply. The same drums also didn't have any sort of vent for the air to escape, which is why the drums make that really cool "choked" sound at higher tunings (the particular similarities you hear in the sound of Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, Art Blakey, etc.). Also, somewhere along the line (and again, I'm not sure if all these differences occurred at the same time or gradually) the lug casing material changed from chrome-plated brass to chrome-plated steel (I think), which has a minor effect on the weight of the drum, which in turn affects tone.

Hope this helps!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC