Help Fix My Guitar Rig!!!

[Renegade Prod]

Hey guys, can you please advise me with the correct leads (length / balanced)
- and how most appropriate way to patch it all to create minimal noise.

Behringer PB1000 (Powered Pedal Board with 7 pedals plugged into it)
- TRS in
- TRS out
(LOSS OF GAIN AND NOISE IS BEING CREATED WHEN PLUGGED IN)

Fender Rack Tuner
- 1/4" in
- 1/4" out

Alto dual 32 band EQ (only using 1 EQ on overdrive)
- 1/4" / XLR in
- 1/4" / XLR out

Hughes & Kettner Head
- 1/4" in

Your patience and kindness would be very much appreciated, cheers slutz.

[qsblues]

Well, in order for me, or anyone else that reads this thread to help you, we need some more information ...
What kind of amp is it? Tube or SS?
What pedals are in the chain? Are any in the effects loops? Is the loop series or parallel? Buffered or non buffered?
What guitar(s) are you using? Single coils or HB's?

Keep in mind that if you run a chain of pedals in front of an amp, you are going to lose gain and get noise. Period. That's just the way it is, unless you use specific types of pedals, such as those that have true bypass switching. Even then, if you're running two 25' lengths of cable from your guitar and to the amp, that kills tone as well. You need to make sure that you're using really good cables that are well shielded.

And, if you're in a room with florescent lights, that's another thing you have to deal with. What about a ground lift on the amp? Is there one of those handy? Are you using one of those 3-2 power adapters anywhere? Your power source could be fubar as well.

There are just too many unanswered variables to give you a solid answer. Everything from 60 cycle hum to cheap pedals to bad cords could be conspiring against your tone.

Peace.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by Renegade Prod

Alto dual 32 band EQ (only using 1 EQ on overdrive)
- 1/4" / XLR in
- 1/4" / XLR out

Im trying to understand why anyone would want to use that ? thats a no no.
If a amp does not offer the eq you need then you do not need the amp imo.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

Im trying to understand why anyone would want to use that ? thats a no no.
If a amp does not offer the eq you need then you do not need the amp imo.

this is NOT TRUE - i'm surprised at you, allabouttone...

EVERYTHING depends on the ROOM, and / or monitors (and headphones).

EQ is the MOST UNDERATED and UNUSED component in the guitar chain,
or in ANY chain.

do you REALIZE how RANDOM your tone is w/o EQ contribution?

your pedals, tubes, cabs, amps, pres, pick-ups, strings & set-up, instrument, mics, playing,
harmonic content, room, ears, etc. all have to MAGICALLY align to give you the perfect tone???

get real.

without EQ, you have to be LUCKY to be able to get decent tone.

it's absolutely amazing to me how few people realize this.
they'd almost ALL rather "fix it in the mix".

so NOBODY has an EQ on their amp, and then almost EVERYONE reaches for EQ
on their mixer, or in their sequencer mixer
...( i just need some EQ to "cut" a little more, or get rid of that bump around 250 Hz, etc. )

EVERYONE has a different ROOM, and is playing different MATERIAL DIFFERENTLY!!

if the EQ helps - USE IT!!


i bet, allabouttone - you're probably using other things to do the EQ -
you're just calling them something else - like pedals, pick-up and pre-amp settings, etc.

.

[richiepalooza]

Gotta agree with Allabouttone, 32 band EQ is a no no. If this was an acoustic rig i could see it, but not electric. I can see the temptation to use it bout that's not where it belongs.

I would be careful that I'm not over thinking things. My advice is to start over. Start by straight jacking your guitar into the amp and adding one pedal at a time.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by richiepalooza

Gotta agree with Allabouttone, 32 band EQ is a no no. If this was an acoustic rig i could see it, but not electric. I can see the temptation to use it bout that's not where it belongs.

I would be careful that I'm not over thinking things. My advice is to start over. Start by straight jacking your guitar into the amp and adding one pedal at a time.

Yup the eq is nothing but asking for trouble, noise is first thru a electric dirt guitar rig, hell i want even use a Boss pedal eq.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by Sqye

without EQ, you have to be LUCKY to be able to get decent tone.

it's absolutely amazing to me how few people realize this.
they'd almost ALL rather "fix it in the mix".

You do not have to "fix it in the mix" if you start with the perfect source as in a great guitar, pickups, tube amp....if recording, room, preamp, mic.
If im live or studio i try not to use eq at all, a bit sometimes like on a kick.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by Renegade Prod

Hey guys, can you please advise me with the correct leads (length / balanced)
- and how most appropriate way to patch it all to create minimal noise.

Behringer PB1000 (Powered Pedal Board with 7 pedals plugged into it)
- TRS in
- TRS out
(LOSS OF GAIN AND NOISE IS BEING CREATED WHEN PLUGGED IN)

Fender Rack Tuner
- 1/4" in
- 1/4" out

Alto dual 32 band EQ (only using 1 EQ on overdrive)
- 1/4" / XLR in
- 1/4" / XLR out

Hughes & Kettner Head
- 1/4" in

Your patience and kindness would be very much appreciated, cheers slutz.

Renegade Prod : I play aggressive blues so im all about tone and signal, i use monster cables, and hell yes they make a huge difference, if i chose a pedal and it effects my tone just buy running thru it with it off i will not use it.... i hate any pedal that take away from my signal path and tone, i use a wah wah and a danelectro delay sometimes and thats about it, i have returned so many pedals back to the store for loss of power in my chain. Im a picky SOB if you wanna call me that. I use a 60 annv start with the delta switch and a Fender super sonic tube amp combo with a vintage 30....im in heaven.

[qsblues]

OK, THAT was productive.

Now I'm sure that our friend here has all of his questions answered.

Start with the guitar. If you have a good tone acoustically, then you want to translate as much of that tone to the amp and speakers as possible without coloration. Using stomp boxes and effects are meant to enhance an already good tone, not be a building block of it.

Make sure your guitar is set up properly, make sure you are using high quality strings, and make sure that you have a good acoustic tone out of it first. Once that is done, plug straight into your amp with no effects whatsoever, with the EQ on the amp set flat, which would be at 12:00 if your amp EQ is passive. Make sure you are using a good cable. If you don't get a satisfying tone with this simple set up, then you're only going to pile on more crap on a bad foundation by adding effects. This way, you know that either the guitar, the amp, or both have to go.

If the amp is guilty, then start shopping. Always bring YOUR cable and try out as many different amps that you can afford. Always make sure that the EQ is set flat, and listen, listen, listen.

If the guitar is guilty, once again, start shopping.

You have to have an idea of what a good tone is. Are you looking for a twangy, beefy SRV type tone, or a buttery smooth Santana type of tone, or a clear bell like Pat Metheny type of tone? It's all subjective, but by comparing what you want to what you like is a good place to start.

Once you have this idea in your head, then start studying what these players use. Most people can't afford an SRV or Metheny type of setup, but there are a lot of good amps and guitars that will come mighty close. But, no matter what setup you choose, you will NEVER sound exactly like these cats, no matter what you do. You can cop a good player's tone, you just can't have it.

That being said, let the flame wars begin again.

Peace.

[Renegade Prod]

thanks guys ...


My guitar and strings are fine (Gibson SG, 11-54 strings)
My amp is fine Hughes & Kettner Warp X Tube.
My initial leads leading to and from FX are fine, but the gain loss is something i will personally go into and try each individual pedal and find where my faults lie.

The Alto EQ was given to me for $40 ($450 RRP) as a friend was giving up guitar.
When i plug it in via 1/4" there is a lot of noise through it, but i would really like to use it as i find myself adding some high end which really complements my tone as the amp is very bass heavy.

Back to my initial question:
Should i use balanced TRS? or XLR cables? should they be 1' max? Would monster cables do the job, or are there other brands i should look at?

ALSO this is obviously for a live setup, no need for 'fixing in the mix etc etc' ... i need a great tone when im standing in front of it, and standing 20 meters back.

Cheers slutz.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by Renegade Prod

ALSO this is obviously for a live setup, no need for 'fixing in the mix etc etc' ... i need a great tone when im standing in front of it, and standing 20 meters back.

Cheers slutz.

I still think you need to drop the eq, i know they give off noise, and NO do not go XLR, thats plain crazy....sorry forgive me.
I assume you are using the preamp on the amp, if you are getting to much bass from the amp head and turning it down gets you nowhere you need to get some brighter speakers like greenbacks, i have a Sovtek mig 60 head and im having the opp issue, i want more bass, i know how to get it, buy vintage 30 speakers for better lows and still have the great mids. My greenbacks are to bright for my Sovtek head. The Sovtek in my 2nd amp ,my Super sonic is the bad ass.
Good luck.
AAT
ps: maybe switch guitar strings to boomers GHS , they are loud and bright and a lighter string means less bass.

[qsblues]

Now we're getting somewhere!

I agree with the previous post. Lose the EQ. All you're doing is adding more noise to each frequency you boost. That type of EQ is not made for guitar, that is a live post-processing EQ. You're not doing yourself any favors by using that thing in your signal chain.

Your HK is more than capable of producing good tone on it's own. I'm willing to bet that the power tubes have never really worked up a sweat, and you're relying on preamp tubes for all of your distorted tone. That would explain why you think you need an EQ. Then again, if you're using 120 watts, there's no way in HELL you're going to hear the power tubes distort unless you're in a stadium by yourself. That, my friend, is your problem. Too much power.

Since I'd be willing to bet that the last thing you want to do is sell that monster, then try this;

Get two identical stompbox EQ's. A Boss GE7 or an EH Tube EQ will work quite nicely, and put them before and after your distortion pedal, if you use one. Set one up for a treble boost, and one for a bass boost, or however you want. This will give your tone some beef. You then might want to get some type of noise reduction on that signal chain if you can't resist the urge to go nuts with the EQ. Remember, you want UNITY GAIN ... no dramatic increases or decreases in volume with or without effects.

I would opt for a lower wattage amp, but that's just me.

Peace, and good luck.

[zamsden]

I agree with gsblue, but offer a different solution if you want that big fat power amp sound. Get an attenuator. THD Hot plate is a good example. Now you can crank the master, get power amp distortion, but attenuate the level down to reasonable.

If you find yourself still wanting the EQ, get an EQ made for guitar, like a MXR 10-band. If you want to color your power-amp tone, put it in the FX loop as the last unit; if you want to shape the tone out of your pedal chain and into the pre-amp, put it after your other pedals.

[JustinAiken]

Originally Posted by Renegade Prod

Back to my initial question:
Should i use balanced TRS? or XLR cables? should they be 1' max? Would monster cables do the job, or are there other brands i should look at?

I'm not sure about your rack gear, but all your pedals/guitar/amp should be regular unbalanced 1/4" instrument cables (except the head to cab cable, which should be speaker cable.)

There's lots of high quality cables out their without the high Monster price; when I switched from generic cables to George L's, the difference was night and day.

I have about 15 pedals plugged into my chain, and don't get very much noise/hiss using those cables...

[mrhenry76]

I would say, sell the Eq, sell the amp and buy a smaller amp that gives you the sound you like witout eq ( or any other kind of processing ) and at a human sound pressure ( that means that when you turn the volume knob to 8 you don't get blown away ... )
qsblues is right, to get a nice from a tube amp you have to cranck it up, so that the final stage of the amp works like it should and gives a great compression, harmonic distortion and the right sound pressure!
Then if you don't want your signal to be sucked by the pedals ( but who wants?) buy TRUE BYPASS pedals ( there a lot of high quality boutique pedal makers out there ) or modify you pedals and mke them TBP.

[mrhenry76]

I forgot ... what pedals do you use?