Why didn't anyone tell me I was being an idiot?

[frist44]

My recording space is in a finished basement with fairly low ceilings. The foyer in our house extends up to the second floor where the hallway overlooks the front door. The ceiling there is about 18', so I figured why not try and record drums there. I bought a 50' snake to feed the gear and off I went.

Initialy impression: woah...this is what I've been missing. My overheads no longer sound like ass, my snare no longer sounds like a muffled piece of poo. The room mics make all the difference in the world.

here's a little clip. all ambience is room.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/bhilkert/bigdrums.mp3

Brandon

[Mike Tholen]

You must not have a wife and kids...if so she must be a gearslut too!
good luck!

[frist44]

I definitely don't have either...that is partly why this was possible.
I do have a dog that's gets really pissed off when I play the drums upstairs though.

[chetatkinsdiet]

Everyone does say that all the time, just no one listens. People would rather buy cheap "tube" gear or Chinese import mics that sound brighter than the crappy dynamic's that they were using. Guys will record in a bedroom with thousand dollar mics and pres and it just makes the ass sound clearer and more focused.
The room is EVERYTHING. Actually, the song is everything. Then the musicians, then the room. Everything else is down below this. Think about it. Take the best band or musicians in the world and if they're playing bad music, they sound bad. Give them a good song and they could be playing it anywhere and it's great. Put them in a good room.....even better. Use top notch gear and you've just hit the trifecta.
later,
m

[XHipHop]

I like the kick. it sounds like the new unwritten law single (which i got for free on itunes).

[Drumsound]

Drums need some space to breathe, it's that simple.

[Jules]

Sounds good -

"I do have a dog that's gets really pissed off when I play the drums upstairs though"

[manning1]

two songs on which the drums really impress me is ...
1. david lyndleys wonderfull mercury blues. guranteed to bring me out of any funk/bad day i have.
2. The knacks first album with my sharona on.
anyone know how the drums were done on these two ?
anyway - various engineers ive met in my travels hasve told me that a good way to record drums is in a loading dock with a high ceiling. so i agree with the poster who talked about the high ceiling. i tried it several times and proved indeed the recording space makes a huge difference even with budget mics.peace.

[frist44]

Originally posted by RobertPhilbeck
Nice! Can we hear a sample of what they sound like in your other room (basement)?

Let me try and find something.

Brandon

[Ruphus]

High ceiling definitly is required, not only for drums. That´s why I´m searching for a such a place now since a while ( without success so far ).

Ruphus

PS: The bummer is that I have a great room here already, only that it is unusable, because of leakage.

[loudist]

Originally posted by manning1
two songs on which the drums really impress me is ...
1. david lyndleys wonderfull mercury blues. guranteed to bring me out of any funk/bad day i have.
2. The knacks first album with my sharona on.
anyone know how the drums were done on these two ?

"Crazy 'bout a Mercury...
Gonna buy me a Mercury and cruise it on down the road."

Smaller bright rooms. Lindleys El Rayo X was recorded at Record One. 12 foot ceilings (if I remember correctly) marble floor.
The Knack was recorded at United Western, smallish studio, linolium floor, hard walls, 18 foot ceilings.
The commonality of the two were small bright rooms, fast reflections, short decay times, no standing waves.

[Your Add Here!]

What micing techniques are you using?

[pan60]

one good mic, one good room.
better then ten bad cheap mic's


just say no bad rooms, and bad mic's

[Ruphus]

Hey Loudist,

Should you see Mr. Lindley, tell him hello from a guy who admires his work and attitude as well as the recording quality it comes with. ( especially that album named "David Lindley and El Rayo-X" )

Ruphus

[manning1]

loudist. thanks kindly for the info. very interesting.
am i correct that The Knack was recorded largely LIVE with just a few overdubs ? i loved the guitar sounds and the playing on that
album. any more info ? amps used ? guitars ? (gibsons perhaps ?).
peace.

[loudist]

I didn't record them but I knew Burton Avarre(?) and we talked about that record a bit. I used the same studio and room in the early 80's on a project.

They were so tight and live gigged tested and performed, that they did the album in a crazy short time like 10 day including mixing.
They used the rest of the budget for equipment.

[dntknowsht]

Originally posted by manning1
loudist. thanks kindly for the info. very interesting.
am i correct that The Knack was recorded largely LIVE with just a few overdubs ? i loved the guitar sounds and the playing on that
album. any more info ? amps used ? guitars ? (gibsons perhaps ?).
peace.

"GetThe Knack" is one of my all time favorites!!!

[manning1]

dontknow. i learnt every song on the get the knack album.
a lot of people dont delve into the songs (ie the second side of the album) further than the sharona hit, and in my opinion miss a ton of usefull "learning". imho they were brilliant guitarists. took me quite a time to figure the lead out on sharona. very tricky.
imho one of the most brilliant lead breaks for MUSICALITY that ive come across. i dont like lead breaks that just are a bunch of notes strung together; but lead breaks that are musical and well thought out and get my emotions flowing and CONVEY something.
i'd love to know also how lindley got that smashing guitar tone on mercury blues. just blows me away with the mother tone he got on that.
loudist. the knack struck me as being SO TIGHT i wondered if they might have been guys who normally played on other peoples recordings who decided to put an album together. more to the point where are the knack now ?
fyi - i get a lot of young guitar players who know a few basic barre chords asking me how they can advance and learn guitar.
i tell them just learn every song on get the knack , and after a year youll find youve become a better player.

[loudist]

Manning1, no I don't think they were studio muscians at all, just a bunch of guys with good songs who liked what they were playing.

An interesting note, Bruce Gary was essentially a jazz drummer.

[frist44]

Here's a little clip I put together to see how the drums in the bigger room fit in a mix. Please disregard the horrendous guitar playing.

Brandon

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/bhilkert/bigdrumsmix.mp3

[thenoodle]

Here's another tip...

Next time you need a nice live space for reverb on vocals, stick one home speaker or small monitor in the bathtub of the bathroom of your choice in your home. Also stick two microphones in there at some sort of stereo spacing. Shut the door.

Feed the bathroom speaker from a mono aux send (fed via an amp to the speaker of course) of any of your recorded tracks. Return the two bathroom mic signals into a stereo return or two channel strips. Compress the send or add a gate to the returns as needed.

Also, try recording vocals in there. That's what Three Dog Night did for their old 70's hit, "Liar".

[six_wax]

I currently do all my basics tracking in a room that most complain sounds pretty undesirable... an effect I'd experienced on several occasions. Last session I engineered there, the producer stressed how much he wanted to get unbelievable drum sounds. We spent a couple hours tuning up the kit, moongelling the rings out, picking the snare & cymbals, then the band broke for dinner while we set up the room.

A couple assistants and I banged around with the floor tom, using it to find *exactly the right spot* for the kit. We ended up moving the entire kit over less than 4' (in a ~30'x25' room) from where the kit sat when they rehearsed and we tuned it. That was the only thing we changed.

Drummer comes back in, sits down and starts playing, then stops, says " The f*cking drums sound huge!!! " and asks me if we retuned them. Big grin. The tracks, btw, came out sounding absolutely ridiculous. Thunderous but defined.

I'm starting to see the room as being part of the instrument, something that you can play and tune, like a big drum itself...

Interesting side note: Of course, the same spot in the room won't work for every kit. But we usually set the drums up in the same spot anyway, don't we?

[loudist]

The best way to get a good drumsound is to put the drums where the drummer can comfortably see all of the other players.
Performance makes the sound...


Unless you are a Belgian Hack, then nothing will help.

[max cooper]

Kudos on the sounds! Isn't it great when you do something and you don't wonder why you did it?

"The best way to get a good drumsound is to put the drums where the drummer can comfortably see all of the other players.
Performance makes the sound..."

Also, if the bass player can rest his foot on the kick drum, locking in is much easier (unless you've got one of those monster bass players who walk in locked in). Just make sure he takes his shoe off and doesn't deform the drum...I should have said "lightly rest"

Actually, the song is everything. Then the musicians, then the room

Something like what a buddy of mine and I used to say whenever someone called us about putting a band together:

1) does anyone have any songs? I'm sure some projects have succeded with nothing more than this.

2) can anybody sing? A SONG with a SINGER singing it would just about kill everything else around. Sometimes it even happens (or so I understand).

3) can anyone play the drums? A SONG + a SINGER + a DRUMMER = a great Motown hit, or the possibility of greatness, at least.

The rest CAN be great, but these three elements would be a DAMN fine start.



(apologies for getting so O/T)

[kennyd03]

Originally posted by max cooper

Also, if the bass player can rest his foot on the kick drum, locking in is much easier (unless you've got one of those monster bass players who walk in locked in). Just make sure he takes his shoe off and doesn't deform the drum...I should have said "lightly rest"

Is this a joke? Part of me actually wants to try this at my band's next rehearsal (I'm a bass player), although I feel like I lock in pretty well.

In general, if I can hear the kick drum, it is much easier to lock in and groove. Our band got a lot tighter once we started miking the kick drum in rehearsals.

-KD03

[dntknowsht]

Originally posted by kennyd03
Is this a joke? Part of me actually wants to try this at my band's next rehearsal (I'm a bass player), although I feel like I lock in pretty well.

In general, if I can hear the kick drum, it is much easier to lock in and groove. Our band got a lot tighter once we started miking the kick drum in rehearsals.

-KD03

I'm a bass player also. A method that has worked well for me is to stand next to the drummer in a place you can actually see the kick pedal hit the drum. It really helps to tighten things up.

[seb37000]

frist44,
Sounds real nice, did you use any samples in that drum sound, what was the mic set up ?

[frist44]

Seb,
No samples

subkick outside the kick
421 inside

m201 on snare
57 underneath

CAD m179 stereo overhead in recordman setup

Studio Projects B3 in omni in stereo

God knows what it would sound like if I actually used good mics on overheads and room.

Brandon

[Ted Nightshade]

Originally posted by six_wax
I currently do all my basics tracking in a room that most complain sounds pretty undesirable... an effect I'd experienced on several occasions. Last session I engineered there, the producer stressed how much he wanted to get unbelievable drum sounds. We spent a couple hours tuning up the kit, moongelling the rings out, picking the snare & cymbals, then the band broke for dinner while we set up the room.

A couple assistants and I banged around with the floor tom, using it to find *exactly the right spot* for the kit. We ended up moving the entire kit over less than 4' (in a ~30'x25' room) from where the kit sat when they rehearsed and we tuned it. That was the only thing we changed.

Drummer comes back in, sits down and starts playing, then stops, says " The f*cking drums sound huge!!! " and asks me if we retuned them. Big grin. The tracks, btw, came out sounding absolutely ridiculous. Thunderous but defined.

I'm starting to see the room as being part of the instrument, something that you can play and tune, like a big drum itself...

oh yeah!

My room is challenged horizontally, but we got the height! And drums is SO vertical...

[Ruphus]

Couldn´t play Randon´s file ( no access ) and very likely my example sounds like crap compared to it, but I´d like to ask how you like these drums.
They aren´t optimized to themselves, but just soloed out from a mix context I´ve been working on today.
That´s also why you might need to crank it ( forgot to bring up the master fader before bouncing ).

Ruphus