What dynamic mic for drum overhead?

[recky]

I think I want to record my next album retro-style, with a single dynamic mic for drum overhead duties to create some character and cut down on top-end airiness.

What dynamic would you use in this capacity? I would think that a stage vocal mic such as the SM58 would sound thin as they are designed for close-up use.

I have three old EV mics I could try - RE15, RE16 and 635a (an omni) - what do you reckon? What about the more modern dynamics, e.g. SM7?

Fire away!

Cheers,
Recky

[norman_nomad]

EV RE55 .... if you can find one. An Incredible dynamic mic. Very flat in response and pleasing in tone. Needs a lot of gain.

If you're not dead set on using a dynamic, a Beyer 160 would be a cool mono OH.

[recky]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

EV RE55 .... if you can find one. An Incredible dynamic mic. Very flat in response and pleasing in tone. Needs a lot of gain.

If you're not dead set on using a dynamic, a Beyer 160 would be a cool mono OH.

Thanks for your reply! Actually, I'd forgotten about the Beyer. I'll definitely consider it.

Recky

[softwareguy]

I would let the quality of the room determine the pickup pattern of the mic. If you want to keep it tighter, something like the beyer 160 or the re15 or re16 would probably be a good starting point. If the room sounds good, I would start with the 635a, which is a good sounding mic in my view, in spite of being cheap. If you really got into it you might want to try other old dynamic omnis like the salt shaker that really were used as an OH mic back in the day.

Also, if you have access to an RE20, that would be a pretty obvious candidate to try as well.

Unless you are really committed to using a dynamic in principle, however, you might find that a ribbon is actually the vibe that you are looking for, especially the darker ones like a Coles or RCA. They generally have a more obvious top-end roll-off than the dynamic mics, but still retain detail somehow.

Cool idea. I'd love to hear what you find out.

[DarkSky]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

If you're not dead set on using a dynamic, a Beyer 160 would be a cool mono OH.

While I agree that the 160 is a great choice (and I frequently use a stereo pair on o/h with good results), I have to point out that the 160 *is* a dynamic.

All ribbon mics apply the dynamo principle. They just do it slightly differently from moving coil (diaphragm) dynamics.

[recky]

I hear that the Beyer is a fairly bright mic. Is it bright on the grand scale or merely for a ribbon?

Recky

[DarkSky]

Certainly the 160 is bright for a ribbon. Does not compare to a good SDC for openness of the top end, though, so you would not call it bright on the grand scale. It does take EQ well, however and has very naturalistic detail.

[van Overhalen]

Since them Beatles used an AKG D19 as a single Overhead mic
I once borrowed one to find out what it was all about.

To my ears the drumkit actually sounded quite similar when recorded with a single SM57.

So I don't think you need something extra special.
Any cheap dynamic mic will do.
(I read somewhere that the AKG was even considered a "cheap talkback mic" by Abbey Road engineers)


I use a EV ND 757 from time to time.
Horrible colored mic but works well on drums.
The snare sounds very Ringo - esque through this mic.

[beebay007]

i read somewhere that the drummer for the cardigans just uses a single SM57 over his kit and nothing else.

Once I did a quick song demo and didn't care about the sound, so I just used one SM57 for the kit. When my brother heard it he said it sounded like the cardigans drum sound..

[recky]

Thanks for all the tips so far!

I do like the SM57 on a lot of percussion instruments, although wouldn't it be a bit harsh on a complete kit with its typical broad 5 kHz presence boost and without the strong proximity effect it has when used up close?

Cheers,
Recky

[Recycled_Brains]

A Sennheiser 441 would probably sound pretty cool.

RE20's worked for LZ at shows. I think Neil Young as well.

[johnbohn]

Check out the AKG D224. It might suit your purpose and you should be able to find one for under $150

[recky]

Originally Posted by johnbohn

Check out the AKG D224. It might suit your purpose and you should be able to find one for under $150

I've had the D224 on my eBay search list for ages, but here in Germany they don't come up too often. It's the dual-capsule jobby, isn't it?

Cheers,
Recky

[van Overhalen]

Originally Posted by recky

Thanks for all the tips so far!

I do like the SM57 on a lot of percussion instruments, although wouldn't it be a bit harsh on a complete kit with its typical broad 5 kHz presence boost and without the strong proximity effect it has when used up close?

Cheers,
Recky

I think that you have to deal with the harshness you describe one way or another.
Like trying to tame it with eq or something.

Using one mic will always be a compromise... usually the snare and toms will be fine with a SM 57
and the broad presence boost will make them cut through nicely but the cymbals will be too sharp .

However a more flat mic while being not too sharp on the cymbals would not make snare and toms cut through so effectively.

So pick your poison

[recky]

Originally Posted by van Overhalen

I think that you have to deal with the harshness you describe one way or another.
Like trying to tame it with eq or something.

Using one mic will always be a compromise... usually the snare and toms will be fine with a SM 57
and the broad presence boost will make them cut through nicely but the cymbals will be too sharp .

However a more flat mic while being not too sharp on the cymbals would not make snare and toms cut through so effectively.

So pick your poison

Since I would use the dynamic as an overhead, 70s-style, in addition to close mics on snare, kick and toms, the harshness could be a problem indeed. A flatter mic like the aforementioned AKG D224 or the Sennheiser 441 could be a good solution.

Has anyone used the old AKG D202 on drums before? Is it like the D224 at all?

Cheers,
Recky

[van Overhalen]

Ah, I see, I thought you'd use just one Overhead/no close mics...

[MR5D]

Originally Posted by van Overhalen

Since them Beatles used an AKG D19 as a single Overhead mic
I once borrowed one to find out what it was all about.

To my ears the drumkit actually sounded quite similar when recorded with a single SM57.

I actually just purchased one of these to have a play around with for this very purpose but I haven't had a chance to check it out yet so I can't really offer any info at this point!

[danbronson]

Ribbons are a kind of dynamic mic, so I'd say use a ribbon. I think my SM7B would sound pretty good as an overhead. I'll have to try it sometime. Can't recommend it yet though.

[firby]

I use an SM7 sometimes for spotting the ride cymbal. Its not a bad sound. I have gotten tones with a m160 on one side and the sm7 on the other.

[warhead]

Man, I don't regularly reach for a dynamic on overhead but if I did it would likely be the Heil PR40.

War

[recky]

Originally Posted by warhead

Man, I don't regularly reach for a dynamic on overhead but if I did it would likely be the Heil PR40.

War

Hey Warren,

WHY would you use the PR40?

Cheers,
Recky

[warhead]

It's got good low end response and the top end is present without being harsh. It also has more detail than most dynamics, more condensor-like in some ways.

War

[recky]

Originally Posted by warhead

It's got good low end response and the top end is present without being harsh. It also has more detail than most dynamics, more condensor-like in soe ways.

War

Thanks for your quick reply, War. Would you say the PR40 has an open, airy top end like a condenser, or is it detailed without the airiness of a condenser?

Cheers,
Recky

[warhead]

It does not have the airiness like a condensor.

War

[tINY]

I'd go borrow an AKG D200 - That one sounds great, with just enough of a veil on top.

The PR40 would likely be a nice choice too.



-tINY

[johnbohn]

Recky, yeah it's a dual capsule mic. Very cool little mic. Can I ask why you want to use a dynamic mic? I just don't like dynamics on overheads. If I'm going for a darker kind of thing I tend to go ribbon. If you're in Germany might be able to get a nice B&O for pretty cheap. I'm not bashing you for the dynamic mic choice, I guess I'm just wondering why.

I actually have used 57's on overheads before. It was a really tight sound and I did like it what I was going for at the time.

[recky]

Originally Posted by johnbohn

Recky, yeah it's a dual capsule mic. Very cool little mic. Can I ask why you want to use a dynamic mic? I just don't like dynamics on overheads. If I'm going for a darker kind of thing I tend to go ribbon. If you're in Germany might be able to get a nice B&O for pretty cheap. I'm not bashing you for the dynamic mic choice, I guess I'm just wondering why.

I actually have used 57's on overheads before. It was a really tight sound and I did like it what I was going for at the time.

Johnbohn, I have tried a dynamic before myself, just don't remember what it was. I liked what it did: it created a very organic, focused sound, perfect for my typically sparse, but full-sounding recordings.

I'm not against ribbons by any means, however; they could be the ticket, too, e.g. the Coles.

B&O is a manufacturer I have never looked into. What are their mics like?

Thanks,
Recky

[jbjoubaud]

I once did that with a Beyer M88n with a quite surprising result (in a good way)