Allen & Heath System 8?

[007]

There's not much info on these boards, found a little but with some pretty mixed reviews, though the majority of them on the positive side (great pres and eq's). There are 3 version, the Mark I, Mark II, and Mark III. The first two had a dark brown finish while the Mark III has a grey finish.

What I'm trying to find out, besides more user opinions on these boards, is if the latter ones (they were made between '86 and '93) were still using Op Amps or cheap IC stuff, rendering them as worthy as a current Mackie, not terrible but nothing to shout about....

Any opinions on these boards would be great, thanks!

[chuckj]

I bought a new System 8 board in '88 (?). This was before I became totally immersed and obsessed with gear. I believe I recall looking at the schematic and seeing lots of NE5532 op amps in all the paths. It was reliable and sounded decent. The eq was limited but sounded pretty good, high and low shelf with a sweepable mid. I do recall after a time wishing I had more eq bands. I suppose this was inevitable considering my mic selection was SM57, SM57, SM57, SM57...and oh yeah, I also had an SM57. I paid about $5k at the time for a 24 chn unit. (5 times more than I paid for my '81 Plymouth Champ!) This was the bang for the buck unit during that time. I don't know sonically how it would compare to a Mackie. If it's great deal and priced way under a Mackie, then go for it if you don't think the lack of eq bands would be a hindrance. Extra bonus: it had a full meter bridge of way cool VU meters!

[Steffmo]

I owned 3 System 8's....and used to do consulting and trade shows for Allen and Heath.

At the time those consoles were designed they were pretty much the best option for a small studio. Tascam had a few boards.....and companies like Hill..(as in Cranesong Hill), Aries, and a few others copied the general layout of the console.

The Preamp is I think 4 transisters driving an opamp. It sounds remarkably good. The EQ also sounds very good, but is a bit limited. Its a high and low shelf, selectable between 2 freq, and a sweepable mid. There is also a low cut and a phase reverse switch.

Its a split console with 8 or 16 returns on the right side. These inputs are available in mix...I think the last version had a hi and lo fixed EQ.....not sure.

I think there were either 3 or 4 auxes, and a full master section. Ballistic meters.

One of mine is still running in town at a friends....he loves the sound of the thing, especially compare with the typical Mackie options. If the price is right, get the thing.

[dim light]

here is a picture: http://www.aerosolkings.com/JPGS/P9210006.JPG

Looks pretty nice with the VU etc. Never seen this console before.

[007]

Thanks for the info, everyone. On top of being a seemingly great mixer for the price, they look rather sexy, too, which never hurts..

[Steffmo]

The picture is a Mark 3 System 8...probably one of the last made

[007]

Steffmo,

do you know if these boards were ever modified in any way to give them a little sonic bump, or does it sound good just as is (in the event of a "mint" System 8 coming through the door)? How would you compare it to an older Soundtracs 24.8.2 from the same era?

[Steffmo]

I'm sure you could easily hot rod a System 8. There might even have been some TLO72 in the eq on a System 8. Whatever is in it, there is certainly something that sounds better available now.

As I recall the Soundtracs was another knock off of the System 8....although Todd Wells would argue that to the death. I would be surprised if there was any real sonic difference between a Allen and Heath and a Soundtracs of that era, in the same price range. There were only so many option as to components and in many ways the designs were similar.

[909one]

i have a system 8.
a friend of mine gave it to me.... however all of the pots are totally dusty and crackly.
at the time i had very meager gear.... compared to a behrigner mixer it sounded awesome. i still think its sounds pretty decent. its very very limited in terms of features thought. mine has no phantom power, no solo, no phase reverse, no eq defeat. for someone who can't afford a line of good mic pres its not a bad option. the pre's are fairly open sounding, a nice low end. the eq is decent, overly colored for my taste.
anyone know how to clean closed pots?

[7161]

great boards! - I used one for a few years in a reggea/dancehall studio, super sound - warm, 'phat', etc - all those old board p*ss on new ones anyways imo, who cares about a tad of hiss when the sound is so good

some info from the www here (spec's, release dates, eq freq's, original brochures etc):

http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/h...id=2650&lang=0

[rabryars]

Hi All,

The System 8 is a good budget option imho. As 7161 says they are a bit noisey but thats 'cause even Mk 3's are getting on a bit. I have one in a rehearsal room and provided customer knows that fine tuning is not likely to produce any results beyond crackle and that he should make slow positive moves things are fine. Can't agree with krou about sexiness of colour scheme.The dull sludge brown gets dreary imho. Maplins have some cheap coloured knobs though which fit well and do add a refreshing splash of visuals.
Got given it when I picked up an 02r from an ebay seller, he just about begged me to take it.
Another good board that people overlook is the Yamaha RM800. EQ is not worth much but it sounds warm like the A&H. Both go for virtually nothing on Ebay these days !!!

Bob

[username]

I've got a 24 channel system 8 mkII in my studio at the moment. I love the sound of it.. but it's not as clear in the high end as modern consoles... but it has a huge amount of "warmth".. And when I've recorded with it the tracks have always stacked together well.. not like with most lower end pre's

If anyone could get some schematics or mod ideas for it I'd love it.. I wou'dn't mind modding 8 of the channels or something... and a schem would be handy for future repairs

Edit: Would you believe that just after I posted this message an Email I sent to Allen and heath a few days ago asking for the schems got replied... haha

if anyones interested... or would be able to sujest any mods to it I've put them up at
http://www.prismmusic.net/Mk2.zip

[SnakeCained]

I used to have 2 bolted together for 48 channels. (Early '90's)

I have absolutely no nostalgia for them and have nothing good to say so I will say nothing at all.

And nobody thinks brown is a cool colour!

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by krou

Steffmo,

do you know if these boards were ever modified in any way to give them a little sonic bump, or does it sound good just as is (in the event of a "mint" System 8 coming through the door)? How would you compare it to an older Soundtracs 24.8.2 from the same era?

I've done several of these but none since the mid 90's. It was a great design and value when it came out but other's have surpassed it in most ways. Pretty cheap internal construction with a power supply uncapable of lighting up a firefly. Pots may not be available, maintanence issues should be investigated before you buy as it might up being a doorstop. I did one back in 1990 for Skipper Wise of Blue.

The old 24.8.2 is a much better design with good glass epoxy circuit boards, better to upgrade as they can all be bought cheap now. It's fully modular so service is a breeze.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[username]

Hey Jim, would you be able to give any details on the mods you've done to it?... I'm interested in getting some done on mine..

[Jim Williams]

It had the usual opamp/cap/transistor upgrades but I have no details as I don't even have paperwork on it anymore. I did replace the psu with power one components as the original was a toy. I did a few of these and some Studiomaster boards but there are better choices on the used market now.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[username]

Hey Jim... (or anyone else who's worked on these boards) would it be possible to get any details on good mods that can be done to it if I send you the schems?... I know a few local engineers who would be happy to do them for me if I could get some designs... I'd love to send it off to you.. but the shipping costs would probably be more than my whole studio is worth

Thanks for any help you can give.. if you don't wanna thats cool cause it's kinda cutting across your own buisiness.. not to mention the time involved ...

[Jim Williams]

I'll see what I can do for you. Mail schematics to:

Audio Upgrades
6982 Mimosa Drive
Carlsbad, CA 92011

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[username]

Hey Jim, I've only got them in pdf format at the moment... so it might be easier if I just email them to you... rather than printing them and going through the snail mail process

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by username

Hey Jim, I've only got them in pdf format at the moment... so it might be easier if I just email them to you... rather than printing them and going through the snail mail process

jwilliams3@earthlink.net

[Bang]

If anyone buys an old 5532/TL072 chip board from 1980s without hearing the new Onyx large formats by Mackie, they are nuts. Those board sound amazing, huge big wide warm and all that other nonsense.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[Jamstudio]

he jim or somebody else
I got a 2416 system 8 mk2. is it woth to service those boards ?
Because I'm pretty shure it need some service

The problem i have with it is that it sound verry unclear/dull
especialy on condencer mic's : little lo and high end (2 my ears)
for example my km184 sound like a dynamic with a low cut
what could be wrong
caps, op-amp , juice?????

i got the origional power supply with it

Remco

btw i think your site http://audioupgrades.com/ is broke

[GuruInSpace]

I had a dfegad SYSTEM 8 before. I think it had the most useless eqs i ever used on a board. Also the noise floor was awful. I couldnt get rid of that desk soon enough.

[username]

I find it hard to believe anyone could call those eq's useless.. personally I realy like them, wish they were 4 band though

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Bang

If anyone buys an old 5532/TL072 chip board from 1980s without hearing the new Onyx large formats by Mackie, they are nuts. Those board sound amazing, huge big wide warm and all that other nonsense.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

Substituting upc4560 opamps for NE5532/TL072 is no improvement IMO.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[jdg]

i had one.. it was noisy. thats for sure.

i had a mkII, had it re-op amped, and the put new caps in the PS.

pre's i thought were great, but noisy over all.

flexable too

[usamike]

Bang-

how about the 16 channel onyx mixer?

-Mike

[usamike]

or Tascam M224?

[bjornson]

Originally Posted by Bang

If anyone buys an old 5532/TL072 chip board from 1980s without hearing the new Onyx large formats by Mackie, they are nuts. Those board sound amazing, huge big wide warm and all that other nonsense.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

The neoteks everyone raves about are full of both!

[username]

I don't know about the rest of you.. but mines pretty quiet, I think I said this before earlier, but the pres are quite usable, I particuarly like them on snare and Drums in general. I don't like them much for vocals though.. they're a little bit muddy sounding on that generaly.

Anyway, they were a big step up from using one of the soundcraft spirits, and the desk cost me half as much for 3 times the channels... no brainer to me realy the eq's are pretty good too.