Drum micing in isolation room?

Coldsnow · 9th February 2003

OK I know this really sucks but the only time I can lay down some drum tracks in my house is when the kids are sleeping so I have managed to put them in a 4X4 homemaid isloation room with foam all around. Why you ask? Because I can't stand using a drum module drums and I'm not happy with the sound of them and I don't want to wake the kids. Also, I have use to a nice room with good drum set up, nicely miced but there are times when I just want to do it at home. So what I'm doing is using the drum module for my kick with a pad (Alesis DM Pro), a real 1960's Ludwig wood snare, a real hi hat, and a combination ride/crash cymbal. Sucks but I've gotten better sound out of 1 mic messing around than the drum module ever sounded. That goes for Rolands modules as well.
So here's what I'm planning: put a 57 on the snare top, and two small diagram condensors (ADK) overheads, one aimed at the hi hat and the other at the snare which has the cymbal right above it (either aimed down at an angle or xy). And behind my head a Lawson L-47 MP tube mic.
Other than put them in another room, any suggestions?

Jay Kahrs · 9th February 2003

I'd probably use a mic on the snare and one other mic for the cymbals and hi-hat. Having four or five open mics in a small room doesn't sound like such a hot idea to me. Hell, I'd probably pick one mic and move it around until I found the spot where everything is balanced.

darwin · 9th February 2003

Quote:

OK I know this really sucks but the only time I can lay down some drum tracks in my house is when the kids are sleeping so I have managed to put them in a 4X4 homemaid isloation room with foam all around.

Dude, this was hilarious when I read this. Are you putting your kids or your drums in the room? Idea??? hmm......

Jules · 9th February 2003

sounds quite cozy!

Coldsnow · 9th February 2003

"Dude, this was hilarious"

You think it sounds hilarious, you should see all 6'1" of me in there with my drums. But it does do the job, I've just experienced with the snare mic so far through a Vintech 1081 with 1K boosted slightly and believe it or not sound pretty good.
Remember "a poor workman blames his tools."

darwin · 9th February 2003

I still think the idea of putting the kids in an isolation booth is meritorious.

joeq · 9th February 2003

I'm with Darwin. Tell the kids this is their new "clubhouse". They'll sleep soundly while you blast away in the living room.

Jay Kahrs · 9th February 2003

Totally. Let the kids hang in the tiny room. At one point I tried to measure what the smallest possible room I could record drums in was, I think I ended up at 9x10 for a 5 piece kit. Then I actually got to record drums in a room not much bigger and they sounded freakin' horrible. That was that, back to the big room for me.

Jax · 9th February 2003

Why don't you have their their ear drums removed and teach them sign language? I mean, until they're old enough to carry groceries, what're kids good for, really?

darwin · 10th February 2003

Seriously, you may want to be careful about a 4 by 4 room due to standing waves. A perfect square isn't really acoustically good.

Jay Kahrs · 10th February 2003

Ack! Good point, I forgot about that and was kind of dumbfounded at sticking a kit, a person and mics into a small room. Hopefully it doesn't have an 8' ceiling too. If it does... well... it'll make a great closet to store the drums in. I think the smallest iso booth I'd ever build and stick a person in is 5x6 and the smallest for an amp would be 3x4.

Coldsnow · 10th February 2003

I do have it rounded in the corners pretty well with foam. I do plan on making a bigger when the winter is over.
So you don't think this will catch on in the big studio ah.

darwin · 11th February 2003

It might work if you can get some assymetry going on. I would try to make it as dead as possible.

Jay Kahrs · 11th February 2003

Oh yeah, rounded foam will really help those standing waves...

Moving onward, I don't think you'd want it totally dead. I'd aim for neutral. Small dead rooms don't really work well for anything except vocals IMHO. Even then totally dead with every surface covered in foam or whatever is bad. Can't you stick 'em in the garage with a spaceheater or something?

darwin · 11th February 2003

Yeah, I forgot about that. I meant to say that about the ceiling. How tall is this room?

5down1up · 11th February 2003

sorry if i sound stupid

but we have the metric system over here .
what do you mean by 4*4 ???

inches , yards , miles , feet

sounds if its tiny , so i hope yall dont talk about 4*4 miles ... hrhrhr
cause compared to that my room would be as big as a little birds cage ...

Coldsnow · 12th February 2003

QUOTE
"Oh yeah, rounded foam will really help those standing waves..."

I'm sorry Jay, but I don't know if you are being serious or not, sorry for the ignorance. Will it?

It is 4 feet by 4 feet by 7 feet tall.

Jax · 12th February 2003

I never thought I'd say this but you might be better off with either V Drums or good sampled triggers. They're just gonna sound better than trying to record drums in a closet, which isn't saying much.

Coldsnow · 12th February 2003

Tried the samples and modules (V drums etc.). The little experimenting I've done so far blows away any drum module or samples I've tried. (You're right though, that is not saying much). Believe me I've tried the module rout and tried it and tried it. I've run then into a E.L. Fatso, Distressors, C.S. Trakkers, through Neve equipment, through GT Vipre and Manley stuff and you just can't make them sound non offensive. Again the little experimenting I've done so far has yielded far superior results.

Coldsnow · 12th February 2003

OK,
I've been looking at my home studio (basically it's a room), and I can make a 7 or 8 sided isolation room that would be about 10X6 at it's furthest dimentions (when the weather is better, it hasn't been above 20 degrees farenheit all winter). Would this be an improvement? Would you make some of the inside walls wood that can be covered up if needed?

darwin · 12th February 2003

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

Although I am not sure the above site will answer your question, I recommend you check it out. It has some pretty good background information on acoustics.

Quote:

The first two rooms (Studio and Control Room) are carefully modified from the ancient Golden Section dimensions. A Golden Section is an area that has a specific ratio of height to width to depth. The ratio is approximately 1 (high) by 1.6 (deep) by 2.6 (wide). When a room conforms to these dimensions, it will evenly reflect all frequencies so that any area sounds substantially the same. The ambience in the room will reinforce the tone of the instruments rather that sounding "muddy" or "thin".

This quote was taken from the following site.
http://www.studioforrecording.org/cottage.html

Again, try to avoid squareness.

Coldsnow · 12th February 2003

QUOTE
"Again, try to avoid squareness."

I've been trying all my life.grggt

Jay Kahrs · 12th February 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Coldsnow
QUOTE
"Oh yeah, rounded foam will really help those standing waves..."

I'm sorry Jay, but I don't know if you are being serious or not, sorry for the ignorance. Will it?

It is 4 feet by 4 feet by 7 feet tall.

No. It totally won't help. At least the ceiling isn't 8 feet, then you'd really have some problems. After talking at length to Wes LaChot and a few other people with a clue here's the basic idea;

- Avoid building a square. A rectangle is much better because it'll be easier to figure out what the standing waves and problems are and treat them.
- Don't use room dimensions that can be divided into each other, no prime numbers. Odd sizes are good. 11x14x9 is good. 12x14x9 is not so good. 12x14x8 should really be avoided unless you like having the sound of the room drasticly change with every few footsteps.

Hope that helps,

Coldsnow · 12th February 2003

THank you very much for the help guys.
Would a 7 or 8 sided room be better (avoiding right angles)?

Jay Kahrs · 13th February 2003

Maybe, maybe not. After spending countless hours with Wes, other studio owners and designers planning the room that was never to be they all said that since I had a limited budget I would be much better off building a perfect rectangle then a 5 or 6 sided room or even just splaying the walls of the rectangle. The reason is because it's easier to figure out what the problems are and treat them accordingly. At least for the control room anyway. The live room was a bit different and had an iso booth in one corner and the one long wall was pushed out from 23' to 28' just because I had the space at the other end of it. Other then that it was a rectangle.

9th February 2003	#1
Coldsnow Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 742 Thread Starter	Drum micing in isolation room? OK I know this really sucks but the only time I can lay down some drum tracks in my house is when the kids are sleeping so I have managed to put them in a 4X4 homemaid isloation room with foam all around. Why you ask? Because I can't stand using a drum module drums and I'm not happy with the sound of them and I don't want to wake the kids. Also, I have use to a nice room with good drum set up, nicely miced but there are times when I just want to do it at home. So what I'm doing is using the drum module for my kick with a pad (Alesis DM Pro), a real 1960's Ludwig wood snare, a real hi hat, and a combination ride/crash cymbal. Sucks but I've gotten better sound out of 1 mic messing around than the drum module ever sounded. That goes for Rolands modules as well. So here's what I'm planning: put a 57 on the snare top, and two small diagram condensors (ADK) overheads, one aimed at the hi hat and the other at the snare which has the cymbal right above it (either aimed down at an angle or xy). And behind my head a Lawson L-47 MP tube mic. Other than put them in another room, any suggestions?

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9th February 2003	#4
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,356 1 Review written	sounds quite cozy!

9th February 2003	#6
darwin Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Kansas City Posts: 98	I still think the idea of putting the kids in an isolation booth is meritorious.

9th February 2003	#7
joeq Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 9,252	I'm with Darwin. Tell the kids this is their new "clubhouse". They'll sleep soundly while you blast away in the living room.

9th February 2003	#8
Jay Kahrs One with big hooves Join Date: May 2002 Location: Earth, NYC metro Posts: 5,898	Totally. Let the kids hang in the tiny room. At one point I tried to measure what the smallest possible room I could record drums in was, I think I ended up at 9x10 for a 5 piece kit. Then I actually got to record drums in a room not much bigger and they sounded freakin' horrible. That was that, back to the big room for me.

9th February 2003	#9
Jax Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 4,763	Why don't you have their their ear drums removed and teach them sign language? I mean, until they're old enough to carry groceries, what're kids good for, really?

10th February 2003	#10
darwin Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Kansas City Posts: 98	Seriously, you may want to be careful about a 4 by 4 room due to standing waves. A perfect square isn't really acoustically good.

11th February 2003	#13
darwin Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Kansas City Posts: 98	It might work if you can get some assymetry going on. I would try to make it as dead as possible.

11th February 2003	#16
5down1up Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 1,989	sorry if i sound stupid but we have the metric system over here . what do you mean by 44 ??? inches , yards , miles , feet sounds if its tiny , so i hope yall dont talk about 44 miles ... hrhrhr cause compared to that my room would be as big as a little birds cage ...

12th February 2003	#17
Coldsnow Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 742 Thread Starter	QUOTE "Oh yeah, rounded foam will really help those standing waves..." I'm sorry Jay, but I don't know if you are being serious or not, sorry for the ignorance. Will it? It is 4 feet by 4 feet by 7 feet tall.

13th February 2003	#25
Jay Kahrs One with big hooves Join Date: May 2002 Location: Earth, NYC metro Posts: 5,898	Maybe, maybe not. After spending countless hours with Wes, other studio owners and designers planning the room that was never to be they all said that since I had a limited budget I would be much better off building a perfect rectangle then a 5 or 6 sided room or even just splaying the walls of the rectangle. The reason is because it's easier to figure out what the problems are and treat them accordingly. At least for the control room anyway. The live room was a bit different and had an iso booth in one corner and the one long wall was pushed out from 23' to 28' just because I had the space at the other end of it. Other then that it was a rectangle.