Need mic positioning help....(drums)

[KidGibRic]

Hey guys. I need some help with micing up a drum set. I'm just kind of learning the ropes and wanted some suggestions. For starters, I'll tell you what I have to work with and what my goals are.

I'm running a DIGI 001 with an xp system and PT LE 6.4. I'm using the onboard (crap) digi pres and a couple of art tube MP pres.

For mics, I have a Beta 52, Senn 421, Apex 460 (LDC), Studio Projects B3, and 2 57's.

I'm not looking for an amazing drum sound by any means from this, but definitely want a good place to start. The style of music is in the vein of Gob, Paramore, Matchbook Romance, etc. So basically poppy rock. Any tips or help is greatly appreciated.

[Joe Porto]

Start by doing a search for "recorderman drum recording" and "glyn johns drum recording"

Once you've mastered the 2 or 3 mic technique, then add more mics.

[warhead]

Spend time tuning the kit and picking out the right drums and putting them in the right place in the right room, coupled with a good player who delivers the goods...you very well could end up with an amazing drum sound with that setup. I'd make amazing sound the goal using what you have. These other things will matter more.

Start with the following and experiment:

Kick: Beta52
Snare: 57
Rack tom: 57
Floor tom: 421
OH L: Apex 460
OH R: SP B3

War

[DesertDawg]

What's the drum kit like? Have you got a halfway decent kick/snare/hats? How many toms, what kind of room are you recording it in, etc (I mean, the room is really part of the kit, in a way)? Give us a little more info - might be helpful.

I might echo War's assessement on mic placement, except that if you don't have two identical mics for OH's, you might think about doing "OH-OVER and OH-FRONT" instead of L&R.

[KidGibRic]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! The room I'm recording in unfortunately isn't the greatest, and we're on a tight time line. It just kind of came up last minute and I'm stuck using our jam space to record. It's about a 150 sq.ft. room that used to be a meat locker. It has spray insulation on all of the walls which helps a bit to keep the sound from bouncing around too much.

The kit is a Yamaha Oak Custom (24x17.5, 12x10, 16x16, with a 14x6 snare). Cymbals are 14" Mastersound hats, Z custom 19" and 20" crashes and a 22" Paiste ride. It's a beautiful kit that is tuned really well and has a slammin' drummer to back it up.

I myself was kind of worried about having 2 different mics on the OH's, but was gonna give it a shot anyhow.

Hope this helps a bit and thanks again for the expertise!

[BLUElightCory]

Don't worry about having two different overhead mics. Put the darker sounding OH over whichever side has louder/harder to control cymbals (usually the hat side of the kit in my experience).

One other thing I would do is try to beg, borrow, or steal some different crash cymbals. Z Customs are LOUD and are terrible to record.

[drBill]

Here's some pics and clips of a recent drum mic shootout....

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...c-madness.html

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

One other thing I would do is try to beg, borrow, or steal some different crash cymbals. Z Customs are LOUD and are terrible to record.

True they are loud, but so is that oak kit, with a 24" kick no less. His drums just scream LIVE and LOUD. That's a very loud setup for such a small room.

Still, if the drummer is smoking, and the room sounds decent, I'd try the phase aligned mic methods I listed in my first post, then add more close mics if needed.

[Dan Korneff]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Don't worry about having two different overhead mics.

I would actually say the exact opposite... try mowing a few more lawns to scrape up $188 to get another apex 460. the more balanced you can get these overheads (or closer stereo mics) the easier this will be on you in the end. The other stuff can be reinforced with samples and such.
Dan

[KidGibRic]

I'd like to avoid sample replacing wherever possible, and seeing as the session is today, I'm gonna have to make due with what I have. I think I'll try out the Glyn Johns method of micing and see where that gets me.

Once again, Thanks so much for the help!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Dan Korneff

I would actually say the exact opposite... try mowing a few more lawns to scrape up $188 to get another apex 460. the more balanced you can get these overheads (or closer stereo mics) the easier this will be on you in the end. The other stuff can be reinforced with samples and such.
Dan

I agree with War and BLUElightCory on this one. Stereo matched mics are highly overrated, use what you have and go record.

It depends on the music you are recording to some degree but I challenge anyone to pick out two different mics used on overs in most dense pop / rock mixes.

[TeReKeTe]

the setup of that kit (oak), the sizes (large), the cymbals (heavy), and the room (brrrrrrrrright) is working against you-- if you don't treat stuff, then you're gonna wind up with something really clangy.

but the important word there is "if". make it a goal to get the most controlled, low-end-rich sound that you can out of the drums. get the kick and snare really well in-tune, muffle as required--maybe even more than you're comfortable with-- and get as much sound as you can from the close mic's rather than the oh's. those oak customs really sing and breathe, and the up-close sounds should be really good.

if you can, get the drummer to get his cymbals as far away from the drum mics as possible, and use the oh's to capture them more than a sense of the 'kit'. some parallel compression in the mix stage might help as well.

enjoy it! always a good learning process and yeah, you very well might get some amazing drum sounds.