Randall Iso Cab or Palmer PGA-04

Big Gene · 5th February 2005

I've read everything on the forum I can find on palmer, and similar devices. I'd appreciate opinions on which one you would use to record guitar, the Iso Cab or Palmer. Using conventional mic techniques is not an option, unfortunately. I know a "Which is better" post isn't the most original, but I need some help here. Thanks

Synth80s · 5th February 2005

I've never used the Palmer, so I can't directly compare it to the Randall Isolation cabinet, but I can share my experiences with the Randall cabinet.

The good:

Well, it works like a real speaker cabinet because it *is* a real speaker cabinet. I bought mine used for a good price -- it's an early model with (if I remember correctly) an Eminence speaker. No matter because I replaced it with a Celestion Vintage 30 which works better for my needs.

Because it's a real speaker, I can position mics inside the case at different angles to get different sounds. I can also try another speaker if I'm feeling brave. I can push the speaker hard and get cone-driven distortion. I can partially or fully open the case to modify the cabinet feel. I can try different amps on it or even pump synths through it! It's very flexible.

The unit is well constructed and sturdy, but also large and heavy. If you're thinking of tucking it in the corner, make sure you leave room to open the big clamshell top.

I took the design one step further: for $10 in parts, I added a 2nd gooseneck mic arm and fixed base so I can use two mics inside. Only one is factory wired to the external XLR jack, of course, but I run a cable out for the other.

The cabinet generally sounds very good and it offers cabinet sounds I simply can't get using any other guitar pre-amp (I've tried a few, both analog and digital).

The not so good:

Sometimes, depending on the mic position, EQ and tone, the Randall can lead to somewhat constricted, "boxy" sounding tones. It's not always a problem and maybe no one else would know the difference, but it seems like the small speaker chamber might have a resonant peak somewhere in the low mids. Again, you can EQ around it most of the time.

Though it probably attenuates the speaker output by ~30dB, the box can still get pretty loud. Luckily, mine can sit in a little storage room without long cable runs, so it's not an issue for me

-----

Overall, the Randall Isolation has been great for my needs, allowing me to record searing tube sounds without the "men in blue" coming to my door!

Don't forget to check out Demeter's "Silent Speaker" cabinet as well. Never tried it, but it looks interesting.

Good Luck,
Synth80s

neve1073 · 5th February 2005

I've used the demeter cabinet quite a bit. It's not bad at what it does. Using an ac30 or a late 60s 50 watt marshall I managed to blow up several vintage 30s AND piss off neighbors. Decibel level is substantially reduced of course, but if you are using a powerful head it won't be silent.

Tones are OK. Obviously, your only option is close mic. But if that's all the situation allows, then go for it.

BTW, we did try using a pzm as well on the outside of the demeter but it didn't really add anything so we didn't use it.

Goode lucke

Big Gene · 6th February 2005

Thanks for the info guys.

Synth80s · 7th February 2005

No problem. Let us know what you end up doing and welcome to the boards!

-Synth80s

biggator6 · 7th February 2005

I built something real similar to the Demeter a long time ago when I was an apartment-dweller... it works fine.. I built it pretty heavy and it REALLY cuts down the volume plenty..

shoot me a PM if you want some measurements - it's a pretty easy build if you're at all handy with some basic tools.
"-)

7th February 2005

Hi there,

I ended up going for the Hermit Cab
http://www.smartsounddirect.com/cont...ductID=SSD0391 has the info.

Same idea as the dementer etc, but I was living in the UK at that point and this was significantly cheaper than importing from the US, at the time.

Accepts 2 mics- I have a 57 and a Rode NT1 inside.
Similar situation as ther cabs of this type- can be a little boxy but it sounds a hell of a lot better than going direct.

James

Jules · 7th February 2005

I take my hat off to you guys!

Long live "speaker excursion"!

thumbsup

Jack Pettit · 7th February 2005

I bought a Palmer, I think that thing sucks.
I'll give you a good deal on a "as new" one
if you just gotta get one.

Synth80s · 7th February 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Jules
I take my hat off to you guys!

Long live "speaker excursion"!

thumbsup

Townhouse living drives a man to extreme measures!

-Synth80s

preben · 7th February 2005

Never a truer word.

jonnyclueless · 8th February 2005

I just talked to someone who did a shootout between the original Palmer and the new onws. He said the new ones don't sound anywhere near as good. I'm kinda bummed because I was hoping to get one,

5th February 2005	#1
Big Gene Gear interested Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 6 Thread Starter	Randall Iso Cab or Palmer PGA-04 I've read everything on the forum I can find on palmer, and similar devices. I'd appreciate opinions on which one you would use to record guitar, the Iso Cab or Palmer. Using conventional mic techniques is not an option, unfortunately. I know a "Which is better" post isn't the most original, but I need some help here. Thanks

5th February 2005	#3
neve1073 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,275	I've used the demeter cabinet quite a bit. It's not bad at what it does. Using an ac30 or a late 60s 50 watt marshall I managed to blow up several vintage 30s AND piss off neighbors. Decibel level is substantially reduced of course, but if you are using a powerful head it won't be silent. Tones are OK. Obviously, your only option is close mic. But if that's all the situation allows, then go for it. BTW, we did try using a pzm as well on the outside of the demeter but it didn't really add anything so we didn't use it. Goode lucke __________________ =================== "Let's be discrete"

7th February 2005	#7
richmondj Guest Posts: n/a	Hermit Cab Hi there, I ended up going for the Hermit Cab http://www.smartsounddirect.com/cont...ductID=SSD0391 has the info. Same idea as the dementer etc, but I was living in the UK at that point and this was significantly cheaper than importing from the US, at the time. Accepts 2 mics- I have a 57 and a Rode NT1 inside. Similar situation as ther cabs of this type- can be a little boxy but it sounds a hell of a lot better than going direct. James

7th February 2005	#9
Jack Pettit Gear addict Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Reno Nevada Posts: 385	I bought a Palmer, I think that thing sucks. I'll give you a good deal on a "as new" one if you just gotta get one. __________________ Jack P

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5th February 2005	#2
Synth80s Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Beautiful Southern California (cough, choke, honk) Posts: 812	I've never used the Palmer, so I can't directly compare it to the Randall Isolation cabinet, but I can share my experiences with the Randall cabinet. The good: Well, it works like a real speaker cabinet because it is a real speaker cabinet. I bought mine used for a good price -- it's an early model with (if I remember correctly) an Eminence speaker. No matter because I replaced it with a Celestion Vintage 30 which works better for my needs. Because it's a real speaker, I can position mics inside the case at different angles to get different sounds. I can also try another speaker if I'm feeling brave. I can push the speaker hard and get cone-driven distortion. I can partially or fully open the case to modify the cabinet feel. I can try different amps on it or even pump synths through it! It's very flexible. The unit is well constructed and sturdy, but also large and heavy. If you're thinking of tucking it in the corner, make sure you leave room to open the big clamshell top. I took the design one step further: for $10 in parts, I added a 2nd gooseneck mic arm and fixed base so I can use two mics inside. Only one is factory wired to the external XLR jack, of course, but I run a cable out for the other. The cabinet generally sounds very good and it offers cabinet sounds I simply can't get using any other guitar pre-amp (I've tried a few, both analog and digital). The not so good: Sometimes, depending on the mic position, EQ and tone, the Randall can lead to somewhat constricted, "boxy" sounding tones. It's not always a problem and maybe no one else would know the difference, but it seems like the small speaker chamber might have a resonant peak somewhere in the low mids. Again, you can EQ around it most of the time. Though it probably attenuates the speaker output by ~30dB, the box can still get pretty loud. Luckily, mine can sit in a little storage room without long cable runs, so it's not an issue for me ----- Overall, the Randall Isolation has been great for my needs, allowing me to record searing tube sounds without the "men in blue" coming to my door! Don't forget to check out Demeter's "Silent Speaker" cabinet as well. Never tried it, but it looks interesting. Good Luck, Synth80s

6th February 2005	#4
Big Gene Gear interested Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 6 Thread Starter	Thanks for the info guys.

7th February 2005	#6
biggator6 Lives for gear Joined: May 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,980	I built something real similar to the Demeter a long time ago when I was an apartment-dweller... it works fine.. I built it pretty heavy and it REALLY cuts down the volume plenty.. shoot me a PM if you want some measurements - it's a pretty easy build if you're at all handy with some basic tools. "-)

7th February 2005	#8
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Joined: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,808 1 Review written	I take my hat off to you guys! Long live "speaker excursion"! thumbsup

7th February 2005	#11
preben Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: London Posts: 901	Never a truer word.

8th February 2005	#12
jonnyclueless Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 799	I just talked to someone who did a shootout between the original Palmer and the new onws. He said the new ones don't sound anywhere near as good. I'm kinda bummed because I was hoping to get one,

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