the root of the problem- > the writer

[Jose Mrochek]

I'm still surprised no one mentioned the root of the problem, that to me is the creator of the "music" that was sold to the "label" that was then distributed. Haven't you guys thought of the posibility that maybe it's because we are sittin on a musical hole, where the writers themselves are writing crap ? After all the label is just the messenger of what they have to work with. And as long as writers keep writing soul less music, nothing will change . Ok, it's everyobody involved fault to a certain degree, but don't you guys think that there is maybe a musical depression more than an economic one ? the writers are the prostitutes here. puting out stuff for labels to buy, they wont even buy themselves. even though I still believe you need to be creative to create crap , and I respect alot of the crap writers, like I do prostitutes, you have to have balls for the job. clearchanel and the labels are the pimps. digidesign is a blessing. the real root of the problem is the music. why would you invest 2k a day on a room to record shit ?

[toledo3]

Art vs. Entertainment

VS.

Art AND Entertainment



Writing a song to be a hit

VS.

Writing a song to "express" yourself



Writing a song and challenging yourself to write the best you can.

VS.

Writing a song that is "good enough".

[Jose Mrochek]

Alot of people in the past had songs that expressed themselves and where hits. That is the balance I will always look for in my own songwriting. It's hard man, very hard. But I would rather work somewhere else than prostitute my music which is the same as if it where me. And that is why I hate some of the writers who do that. I respect them, they are good, really good.. but man.. they should be the ones attacked. I'm talking about the "producers" who make "hit records". There is a very famous latin producer that once said, "I don't write good songs, I write hits" and he said it with alot of pride and multi million bucks in the bank,
and a joint in his mouth, .

[Jose Mrochek]

To clear this up and why I posted this thread in this forum is that deep inside I'd like to believe that the labels know the music they are puting out is so worthless that the quality of the rooms they are recorded in does not matter to them. I would like to believe that if a new U2 or Beatle type band should arise, they would be more demanding on the quality of the final product. Like it still happens with some of the old classic bands that still put out records that sound great today. I would really like to believe that. And I would also like to listen to what the slutz are recording in their own rooms, and make a study as if it's a major music depression problem or is it just the major labels putting out crap, I would really like to know what's being done in the slutz rooms. I personaly to this date haven't heard anything "out of this world" in the critique forum, maybe people should post songs that are not for critique but songs they think should get major label distribution, and start analizing the music, and the big ass problem creating something worth the 2k room has become after all the super groups of the 60's and 70's.

[joaquin]

Hey Jose. Though I think that we are at the door of a major break thru in a bounch of different levels, and certanly in Music, I don't think is fair to say that there's only Shite out there. Major Labels care about sales, and crappy music is usually the one that sells the most. I personally know quite a few great artist that have no chance of being expose to the masses, because of the unpopular type of music that they create. I think that MTV, and bad schooling, have done more damage to music than we think. There's a misleading concept that put entertainment as the focus, instead of a more profund artistic experience. Music in it's origin was created as an almost spiritual experience, and it's goal was to reach higher states of mind. Now, the "industry" just want to entertain kids with disposable beats and recycle harmonies till they squezze the last Penny.
Again, there's a bunch of great artist out there in search for a way to reach more people. I believe that Internet holds the answer. Things change and we all are pushing forward. stike

[Henchman]

Originally posted by Jose Mrochek
digidesign is a blessing.

No they're not. They are responsible for lowered accepted audo quality. It started with their substandard crappy 888's being viewed as "good enough" by the same AE's that are losing their jobs now.

[BillyJack]

You know guys, I just don’t get it. I see home studio and big studio people pointing fingers and blaming each other and I set back and have wonder WTF. Digi didn’t kill the big studio. All it done was helped the artist, be it writers, composers or players that don’t have the funds to justify studio time, knowing they themselves would never be picked up and marketed, an avenue to express them selves. Not everyone has a “mouse eared” corporation backing them.

I’ll tell you what’s killing the industry. Years ago video started a Tits and @ss show and everybody jump on the bandwagon. It’s easier to sale a T&A show than it will ever be to inspire creative listening and until we teach people the pleasure that comes from artist music, then T&A it is. Quality is not an issue, entertainment (eye candy) is. You want to fix it? EDUCATE! Get off the damn computer your typing on and spend that time becoming a leader in you community pushing the arts. Then you’ll get people back into the studio because home setups are still years and years away from competing when it comes to stellar sound quality.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Interesting bit of commentary. Im a musician.. and am in the process of building a studio (all analog so far).. and Ive got a few things to reply. First off, what are there, like 4 "major" record companies? If anyone wants to talk about the "quality" of music coming from them.. give me a break. The best they have to offer as far as im concerned is Sheryl Crowe and Lenny Kravitz.. and I hate both of them.. because they both cater to the lowest common denominator. Every time I hear a new Lenny Kravitz song I have to picture him thinking "gee, I wonder what Japanese car company I can sell this song to?". Bottom line is you have to dig a little deeper. There is plenty of great stuff out there. And the worse it gets at the "top" of the heap, the wider and more diverse the bottom of the pile gets. In the past year or so, Ive been turned onto: Drive-by-Truckers, Ambulance Ltd, Conor Oberst, Split Lip Rayfield, Elliot Smith, Badly Drawn Boy, Damien Rice, Neiko Case, The Thrills and more than I can think of while I type this. Bottom line is that none of those are gonna be in the "hot hits" rack at Best Buy. In my humble opinion, anyone who says the overall quality of music is bad- is just lazy. There will probably never be another Beatles, Stones or Who. They were from a time and a place that we unfortunately do not live in. But is it really that horrible to live in a time that has Wilco, Ryan Adams, Tom Waits and Lucinda Williams? I'm not complaining a bit.

And oh yeah, the minute I finish putting together my analog studio.. I'm going out to buy Pro-tools and put it on my patch bay with my API mic pre's and my Otari tape machine. I KNOW that analog sounds better.. but Im smart enough to know I need to keep my options open.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by goldcoastrefuse
And oh yeah, the minute I finish putting together my analog studio.. I'm going out to buy Pro-tools and put it on my patch bay with my API mic pre's and my Otari tape machine. I KNOW that analog sounds better.. but Im smart enough to know I need to keep my options open.

Yep, and maybe in a few years, you might start writing songs again and focusing on what you, as a musician, shoudl ahve been doing. Playing.

And then you'll realise that you wasted all that time, and it will be too late.

I've seen it happen many, many times in the last few years.

Musicians buy their own "studio", and it takes them years to start writing again.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Unfortunately you are wrong. I started putting a studio together in my bands practice space. We got tired of "being on the dime" at a studio and not being able to experiment with sounds, try different arrangements, play with mic placement, try a different effect, compressor, mic pre. My band writes very organic stuff, but the studio can bring out the best or the worst of it. We suffered through the worst of it for nearly a year trying to put out our first album. Unfortunately, we signed on with a studio that will probably be another statistic in a year or so. We vowed never again. We'll learn the craft beyond our instruments and do it all ourselves. So Im really not sure how anyone can say that what we are doing hampers our craft, but if you do... I can prove you wrong.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by goldcoastrefuse
So Im really not sure how anyone can say that what we are doing hampers our craft, but if you do... I can prove you wrong.

I'm jsut speaking from what I've seen happened time and time again.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Understood and agreed somewhat. I bought a Roland VS-something or other and it was the biggest pain in the ass piece of crap that I have ever owned. I broke down and bought a TAC Scorpion and an Otari MX70 (for a bit more than the Roland originally cost me btw), I can press (play/record) and hit tape. My band is actually writing songs again.... something we havent been able to do for awhile.

Im not sure that we will try to make an album with the gear we have, but it has definitely afforded us the opportunity to be more creative with the "process".

[Sounds Great]

Originally posted by Henchman


Musicians buy their own "studio", and it takes them years to start writing again.

Probably because they waist too much time on sites like this figuring out what they need to buy next.

( and I know from experience )

[Depth]

Henchman is right.
I have seen this over and over and over. Guy/Girl says... yeh, cool man we can just do this ourselves.
Start buying gear, attempting to figure out opperating gear, how does this thing work, etc, etc, etc.

About a year passes - poor results.
Hmmm , I think we need a fancy microphone..ooo and a prethingy(with a tube in it).
Etc. Etc.

Often the project ends up coming back to me to "Fix It".
Well, the mic technique is all ass, gain staging was obviously all over the place, many little details all missed, phase wanky as hell. Etc. Etc.

Oh, and the songs, arrangements and playing have been but an afterthought. Have you been creating any new material..? Playing out..? Rehearsing..? "Well we have a couple ideas we did in the studio, but we have been working on the "Record" man". I just wish more musician's didn't think they should be recording engineers. It would help all involved.

OTOH - I have some very good relationships with individuals who know what they can and/or should do with their home studio.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Originally posted by Sounds Great
Probably because they waist too much time on sites like this figuring out what they need to buy next.

( and I know from experience )

Actually in my case, I consulted ONE friend who has a great basement studio. He put me on the right track, traded me some great gear for some carpentry work, and helped me with a few other purchases. So my studio building has been relatively painless and been alot of fun... and so far has contributed alot to the growth of my bands writing.. right out of the box. I really doubt Im in the minority.

Its a shame. For as many studios I see closing, I see (and read posts from) as many producers that bitch and moan about musicians who want to learn to record. I had a bandmate buy me "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions", and I have a news flash for alot of "producers".... those days are over. You can't sit in a room high over the live room and be an angel over the band's shoulder.... either evolve into being our partner or move aside.... because I can learn to run a board and a tape machine... but writing a song takes a gift.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by goldcoastrefuse
because I can learn to run a board and a tape machine... but writing a song takes a gift.

Right, I forgot. Being a good engineer isn't a gift, is it.

[Depth]

So please go learn how to write a song... and don't forget about playing that axe too.

**on edit** - I do not make that statement specific to you, as I know not if you can do either. Just a reinforcement of what I have experienced and stated previously.

Henchman - No doubt.. we are sorely undervalued in the eyes of many.

[goldcoastrefuse]

It takes alot of talent, I totally agree. It takes countless hours of history of unnamed bands and experiments, sucesses and failures. You have to deal with ridiculous amounts of electronic gear (Im in a patchbay nightmare that Id rather not be in right now...military?) you know mic placement, which Urei comp to use, which API mic pre is appropriate. But how much of that is inborn? And how of it is really a ton (ten tons?) of trial and error..... over years and years... so is it talent? or just experience?

I have been a part of alot of that in my 20+ years being a musician. But really, when you get down to it, I can picture a melody, progression and structure of a song in my head without anyone infiltrating that. Unfortunately, you can do nothing but wait till my thought process is done.. .then you can make it reality.
I totally appreciate the fact that you can take my vision and turn it into reality. But unfortunately "you" are a dieing breed. And the "you" Ive been far too connected with- spends too much time in the "bathroom", comes to sessions two hours late, needs to use the "Distressor" on everything, still charges 70 an hour, won't keep your Otari/MCI/Studer in shape because the tech costs too much, or "you" flat out lie to us about having 192k protools even though it sounds like crap and we figure out its half that.

In the end, "you" have become such a pain in the ass that Id rather do it myself. The grains of sand are slowly slipping from under the studio's feed, but they won't yell "UNCLE!!!" What a shame, because there is still alot of talent that us musicans can use... and I'd much rather play guitar than learn your job, but you give us no choice.

[Depth]

"But really, when you get down to it, I can picture a melody, progression and structure of a song in my head without anyone infiltrating that."

Do you really think that we cannot do this ?

"And the "you" Ive been far too connected with- spends too much time in the "bathroom", comes to sessions two hours late, needs to use the "Distressor" on everything, still charges 70 an hour, won't keep your Otari/MCI/Studer in shape because the tech costs too much, ......."

Wow, sounds like you went with the wrong places.

"The grains of sand are slowly slipping from under the studio's feed, but they won't yell "UNCLE!!!"

Sounds like the grains of sand are slipping away from you accomplishing anything as a "musician". Maybe you are in training to become an engineer... I wouldn't recommend it. It is an unappreciated labor of love. Even by those who benefit the most from our talents, experiences, and efforts.

Good luck to you.

[goldcoastrefuse]

The same to you. Most musicians can become, and have become an engineer and producer. Can you name one (minus Garbage... and that took three and one hot singer) that have done the opposite?

Yes, I got connected with the wrong people... sad but true. I will not waste a year of my life like that again. Its gone far beyond just "making music", its having fun with the process. Im doing that now, and its a blast. And no crusty, pissed off producer will every make me feel bad or guilty for learing what Im embarking on.

What a shame that there (so far) have been no posts that have been positive about my pursuits. Then again, I probably shouldnt be suprised....

[Depth]

Don't know why I keep responding to this, but Ok....

...."Most musicians can become, and have become an engineer
....and producer."

I don't have the time to touch that one.

...."Can you name one (minus Garbage... and that took three
....and one hot singer) that have done the opposite?"

You see, I don't want to become a rock star....get it?

.... "Yes, I got connected with the wrong people... sad but true. I
....will not waste a year of my life like that again. Its gone far
....beyond just "making music", its having fun with the process.
....Im doing that now, and its a blast. And no crusty, pissed off
....producer will every make me feel bad or guilty for learing
....what Im embarking on."

Absolutely, it is "fun" making art. Particularly with a great team. Enjoy your endeavors. Just remember that if you want to make a living in an artistic field... it is a business. You speak like someone who has a hobby. That is fine, but don't delude yourself.

If you are a talented artist, you should be presenting that art in it's best form. Fine tuning your skill set and refining your "voice". Buying some recording gear and hacking away until you figure some stuff out can be fun, I am sure. But consider the costs. Time away from your core goal in order to eventually put out half rate product, thinking you are saving big, or something.

I say all this, because you are forwarding to others a misconception about your brethren in the artform, while lowering the quality and expectation of our craft. When your venture seems to be going nowhere and you decide to offer your newfound skills to the community for $20 an hour and shared beer, you lower the perceived value of what we do. There will be more and more of you that last for a year or three, continually lowering expectations. In the end you have gotten nowhere with your pusuit and have in the process hurt others who feed their families from what they do. This lowest common denominator stuff is just rampant.

This is not a personal attack, but I did feel the need to comment on your rhetoric.

[goldcoastrefuse]

I say all this, because you are forwarding to others a misconception about your brethren in the artform, while lowering the quality and expectation of our craft. When your venture seems to be going nowhere and you decide to offer your newfound skills to the community for $20 an hour and shared beer, you lower the perceived value of what we do. There will be more and more of you that last for a year or three, continually lowering expectations. In the end you have gotten nowhere with your pusuit and have in the process hurt others who feed their families from what they do. This lowest common denominator stuff is just rampant.

How can you say my venture is going nowhere? How clueless can you be? I have no plans on selling studio time to others. I have not attacked your artform, just the mass amount of deadbeats that seem to proliferate it lately. If you are a great producer or engineer, then you already know that you are far above the studio-tinkering that Im talking about.. and you will have a career in this for long into the future. You know the people Im talking about though; the guys that are riding the dead studios like the damn Titantic, till it splits in half and dumps its cargo on the bottom... please. All I did was bought some studio gear so I wouldnt have to waste my time, energy and money on some unknown. But yet you try to make it sound like a novel where what Im doing takes food off of someones plate.

Narcissism like that is pretty pathetic. Sell your gear on E-bay now... Im sure I'll take some of it off ya. Post what you like pal... Im done with ya.

[amanitas]

Goldcoast, I'm going to step in and say that I think you are right on the money.

While Henchmen does have a point about great producers/engineers being just as gifted as songwriters, that doesn't change the fact that the more people know about the recording process, the more they can achieve their artistic vision. Isn't that the goal?

I guess what bugs me about all of this is that people seem to completely ignore the compositional possibilities that are part of the mixing process.

The idea that tracking and mixing have to be seperate is out of date and quite frankly silly. There's entire genres of music where producer and songwriter mean practically the same thing (ie hip hop or electronica for example). That's not to say a good mixing engineer isn't worth his weight in gold to polish and fine tune everything, but speaking for myself, stuff like panning and EQing, for example, are integrated into my compositional process, because they allow me to do stuff that I couldn't do practically with real instruments.

For example, EQing the mids out of a choir part until it resembles ambient ghosts singing has everything to do with what my "arrangement" is going to sound like. And until I learned how to do these sorts of things (clearly producer/engineer not songwriter terrain), I simply had to live without them in my "arrangements." Because I, like a lot of people, don't think it makes a lot of sense to pay someone $xx an hour to do that for me (especially considering that now I can do it myself for free).

There is always going to be a top 1% - whether that's engineers, composers, producers, instrumentalists - whatever - that will always be working and always be busy. Henchman, I think you are probably referring to this group of people, and much of what I'm about to say doesn't really refer to them (BTW, I think that's why nobody is giving you any love on your post, goldcoast, because I think a lot of the posters that frequent this board in particular are either in or trying to be in that top 1%) Great mixers will always have a job, because a great mixer knows how to make stuff sound good (or better) in any studio (let alone whatever gear they have).

But the reality of the situation is that with the means of production being moved into the hands of musicians (as opposed to the record labels/investors/studio owners/producers), there are gonna be a lot more people in the other 99% that, out of financial necessity alone, decide that spending the time learning the craft of engineering is a far more viable and useful option than paying someone to do it for them.

As for spending all that time honing one skill, that entire line of thinking is wrong to me - unless you are going for a position in that top 1%, which requires a combination of prodigious talent and a ridiculous work ethic, you're realistically going to max out at some point and face diminishing returns in the work you are putting in. At some point it becomes more rewarding (admittedly, depending on what kind of person you are) to start learning new skills. Music is a pretty big art form. There is a lot of stuff to know.

For example, I consider myself a good trumpet player. I know a lot of great trumpet players who practice 4 hours a day and have been doing so for their entire lives. Realistically, I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of taking an orchestra gig from one of those guys, because every single person that's applying for those gigs are in that same category. Am I a hobbyist, then? Should I give up on being a professional musician because I know I can't get the gigs that every trumpet player in every music school in every country is trying to get?

Hell no. My solution was to pursue a different direction. I play trombone and euphonium as well, so I can, by myself, multi-track an entire brass section. I've studied composition and arranging and have a really good ear, so most of the time I come in and do this stuff on the spot, without writing things out ahead of time. In other words, I'm doing the work of an arranger and 10 horn players by myself.

Does it sound as good as it would sound if you hired Quincy Jones and the brass section from the Chicago symphony? Of course not. But most of my clients couldn't justify the expense of bringing in Q and the CSO, if they could even afford it. It's not like I'm being hired by professional brass players that could really point out all the little differences between me and Bud Herseth - the fact that it sounds like a real horn section and makes their music in some way better is all any of my clients really care about.

Bottom line is that I offer a cost effective solution to a problem (getting a real horn section on your tracks), thus I get work. Being as the trend is going towards there being far more 'studios' and 'producers' (read: 'musicians'), my business stands to increase in the next couple of years rather than shrivel.

Getting back to the original point - unless you are in that top 1%, if you want to make a living in the music industry, you need to learn to do as many different things as you can as well as you can, because the days of things being nicely compartmentalized are over. It's a ****ing free for all, and unless you can compose, produce, engineer, sing, and play, you are likely ****ed. Oh yeah, you need your own record label, website, and publishing company too, because all of the ones that are out there right now could care less about you and what you're doing. Unless you're famous, or are related to or good friends with someone who is, in which case all bets are off.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Thanks. I have no plans on taking jobs and food (although its sad when someone has to take it to that level in this day and age) off of somones plate. I simply got forced into a situation by a sad state of affairs that exists. Me and my band reacted, then acted. In the process we discovered that we enjoy the process of recording almost as much as the process of writing songs. I really will never apologize for that. When we recorded our album, we got hooked up with a producer/engineer (who will remain nameless) that I consider brilliant. I will never be on the same plane as he is. When he needed a "sound" he pulled it out of his head, connected the gear, turned the dials, adjusted the faders and bam.....
Its a shame that he was so screwed up, underpaid, drugged out and emotionally disconnected that he destroyed our project. The people that think Im in the one-percent of bands that this has happened to can get real. I've talked to nearly 20 bands in the chicago area, and they almost all had similar tales to tell. If anyone thinks I should quietly go to my room, strum my guitar and wait till this situation corrects itself... I'm 37, I do not have the luxury to be quietly complacent.

[joaquin]

Hi. I think Amanitas is rigth, in the sense that today the production phase in music is as well part of the composition process...maybe it always was, but since today musicians have acces to the tools, we incorporated them in to the creation. The AE have as much credit as anyone in the band for the finish product. Working with a great AE is a gift, but usually agift out of rich, so, we had to take matters in to our own hands. I also think that being a great AE is also a gift that is very similar to the musician one, it's a relationship, between the Brain, the Hart and the ears, and makes as much difference as a good orchestration, or performance...actually, mic placement, and the selection of your chain is a performance, and mixing is as close as to conducting as it gets...I think we are all one and for sure we are in the same boat...hopefully not the titanic. So, please stop this no sense about you and me and them. Let's work this one out together.

[goldcoastrefuse]

I think we are all one and for sure we are in the same boat...hopefully not the titanic. So, please stop this no sense about you and me and them. Let's work this one out together. [/B][/QUOTE]

Amen. The reason I came here in the first place was because a studio-owning friend turned me onto the site as a great place for help, gear and opinions. I just never figured I spend my first day on this site defending why Im here in the first place.

[Depth]

I think I will try just one more here.

joaquin - I think we are all one and for sure we are in the same boat...hopefully not the titanic. So, please stop this no sense about you and me and them. Let's work this one out together.

Exactly, this is the point many are overlooking in the somewhat blinded outlook they are holding. Not realizing what joquin said here will hurt YOU, not just me.

amanitis - While Henchmen does have a point about great producers/engineers being just as gifted as songwriters, that doesn't change the fact that the more people know about the recording process, the more they can achieve their artistic vision. Isn't that the goal?

Yes, of course, but with one caveat: If the musician becomes more interested in the recording process then the song writing and musicianship, we get lame music. Learning how to twist a knob does not replace musical skill, or vision.

amanitis - I guess what bugs me about all of this is that people seem to completely ignore the compositional possibilities that are part of the mixing process.

I don't see anyone (certainly not myself) suggesting any such thing.

amanitis - there are gonna be a lot more people in the other 99% that, out of financial necessity alone, decide that spending the time learning the craft of engineering is a far more viable and useful option than paying someone to do it for them.

Yes, but they might be wrong... most, yes most are.

amanitis - For example, I consider myself a good trumpet player.............I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of taking an orchestra gig ......................My solution was to ...............I'm doing the work of an arranger and 10 horn players by myself...................Does it sound as good ..................most of my clients couldn't justify the expense ............thus I get work..............It's a ****ing free for all, and unless you can compose, produce, engineer, sing, and play, you are likely ****ed. Oh yeah, you need your own record label, website, and publishing company too.

This is the dumbing down of our industry. Most people doing all this also still hold a "day job" at Starbucks or a bar. Meanwhile the potential paying clientele for music production begin to accept lowered standards and smaller and smaller budgets... No that is NOT good, not for anybody in here.

goldcoastrefuse - How can you say my venture is going nowhere? How clueless can you be?

I didn't.... I said when. And for the sake of keeping things civil, I am not going to suggest that your specific venture will fail. I know nothing of what you do to make that "specific" judgement.
I said: "When your venture seems to be going nowhere and you decide to offer your newfound skills to the community for $20 an hour and shared beer, you lower the perceived value of what we do." - this you being a universal "you", not the you known as goldcoastrefuse. Yes, this senario does do just that.. and I see people speaking exactly like you are now, doing this exact thing all the time.....in time.

goldcoastrefuse - All I did was bought some studio gear so I wouldnt have to waste my time, energy and money on some unknown. But yet you try to make it sound like a novel where what Im doing takes food off of someones plate.

That unknown was probably a guy like you three years ago. He probably had a band. He probably still wants to be a rock star. I don't know. It is called bottomfeeding - and yes, it takes food off of someones plate.. mine AND yours. But you don't seem to understand that. Please vote all republicans out of office.

goldcoastrefuse - Narcissism like that is pretty pathetic. Sell your gear on E-bay now... Im sure I'll take some of it off ya. Post what you like pal... Im done with ya.

Nice.

goldcoastrefuse - Thanks. I have no plans on taking jobs and food (although its sad when someone has to take it to that level in this day and age) off of somones plate. I simply got forced into a situation by a sad state of affairs that exists. Me and my band reacted, then acted. In the process we discovered that we enjoy the process of recording almost as much as the process of writing songs. I really will never apologize for that. When we recorded our album, we got hooked up with a producer/engineer (who will remain nameless) that I consider brilliant. I will never be on the same plane as he is. When he needed a "sound" he pulled it out of his head, connected the gear, turned the dials, adjusted the faders and bam.....
Its a shame that he was so screwed up, underpaid, drugged out and emotionally disconnected that he destroyed our project. The people that think Im in the one-percent of bands that this has happened to can get real. I've talked to nearly 20 bands in the chicago area, and they almost all had similar tales to tell. If anyone thinks I should quietly go to my room, strum my guitar and wait till this situation corrects itself... I'm 37, I do not have the luxury to be quietly complacent.

This paragraph makes many of my points.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Oh, I do understand. Unfortunately for you, your entrenched view that musicians dont belong becoming engineers or producers is quite sad. Maybe the common link between dieing studios is their jaded attitudes, while the ones that still flourish are open to change and a more "mutually beneficial" working relationship. There are more guys like me out there, and there will be even more tomorrow... the reason unfortunately... are guys/studios with your attitude. Now you can sit there and say "how sad for the music world", or you can do something about it. Sounds to me though, like you have already made your choice... how sad for the music world.

[Depth]

Oh man.... I give up with this guy.

goldcoastrefuse - Unfortunately for you, your entrenched view that musicians dont belong becoming engineers or producers is quite sad.

I never said anything of the sort. I in fact am one.

goldcoastrefuse - Maybe the common link between dieing studios is their jaded attitudes, while the ones that still flourish are open to change and a more "mutually beneficial" working relationship.

Which is exactly what I have proposed in this thread.

goldcoastrefuse - Sounds to me though, like you have already made your choice... how sad for the music world.

..and what exactly was my choice again ?

Nevermind - I hope you have a good day. Sincerely.

[goldcoastrefuse]

Same to you. Good luck.