vocal chain upgrade - what's next?

[Dor]

Hello, i'm interested in upgrading my vocal chain a bit & was wondering if anyone had any advice or opinions on the matter.

I've been reading up on the boards for weeks and have been thinking of adding either the 1176, apogee A/D or a new mic (u87 possibly). Where do you think my money ($2k or so) would make the most improvement sonically?

Here's the chain i'm working with.

Avalon 737
Focusrite ISA 220
Neumann m147
motu 828mkII.
Mackie HR828's.

Thanks in advance!

Dor

[Beat Counter]

Just my opinion but... Based on what I had read at the time on forums like this, over the course of a couple of years I went out and got a U87ai, Great River mp nv2 and Crane Song Trakker and don't regret any of these purchases. Looking at what you already have, I would say Crane Song Trakker. Great compressor and not just a one trick pony. Good luck!

Scott

[brownmouse]

i would look at..
1. pendulum quartet ($2650) a bit more but soooo worth it. its a steal for what you get.
as far as the mic goes, i would skip the u87 personally. i think the gefell m-930 (for half the price-ish) kills it. ymmv.
good luck,
joshua
p.s. with the quartet and gefell m-930 i would consider selling the focusrite and/or the m-147.... or just wait until funds allow... again, ymmv.

Originally posted by Dor
Hello, i'm interested in upgrading my vocal chain a bit & was wondering if anyone had any advice or opinions on the matter.

I've been reading up on the boards for weeks and have been thinking of adding either the 1176, apogee A/D or a new mic (u87 possibly). Where do you think my money ($2k or so) would make the most improvement sonically?

Here's the chain i'm working with.

Avalon 737
Focusrite ISA 220
Neumann m147
motu 828mkII.
Mackie HR828's.

Thanks in advance!

Dor

[chessparov]

Is there a fourth option?

Like...

Professional acoustical room treatment(s) ala
MiniTraps et al.

Chris

[Jules]

Con-vert-er!

A/D + D/A

Record better quality + hear what you record back better

[Charlie-O]

How about a used Trak2 at about 2 graqnd.


What you get:

Superb two-channel microphone preamplifier with ±90dB gain, phantom power, front-panel universal input socket, high-impedance direct instrument input, analog out ...and an incredible sound.
Two channels of Apogee's true 24-bit, 96 kHz A/D conversion with 117 dB dynamic range.
Full 8-channel digital architecture including 8-channel format conversion and routing.
AES/EBU and S/PDIF out plus two AMBus card slots to interface with Pro Tools, ADAT, TDIF, SDIF-II, etc.
Apogee Soft Limit" helps you record at a higher level without overs; Soft Saturate» gives you the sound of analog tape compression!
Apogee low-jitter master clock.
Apogee's enhanced UV22HR» translates 24-bit signals to 20 or 16 bits while maintaining high-resolution detail.
Video sync capability.
Clear LCD display shows configuration and signal flow.
Cursor controls/delta-wheel for fast settings changes.
Settings can be saved to presets and recalled.
Programmable Quick Keys for instant access to frequently-used functions.
Easy-to-read 2-channel LED bar metering
User-definable over detection (1-4 digital full scale)

[Dor]

Thanks for the replies guys. i'm leaning towards A/D D/A converters. I am hoping this will give me better imaging & add more dimension to my tracks

Feel free to offer more recommendations while i continue on with my research.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Dor

Feel free to offer more recommendations while i continue on with my research.

The most important element on the vocal chain is the mic.

Even the cheapie converters reproduce the vocal range well.

The mic is the first thing the voice will see so it will imprint the strongest sonic signature.

Would i recommend a U87?

It depends how it sounds with the vocalist.

[Finstad]

This is my chain:

Soundelux iFet7 - Tab V72(or API 212) - 1176

Love it!

Finstad

[seb37000]

have you compared the ifet to the u47 fet and the u87 ?
What do you think of it ?

[Finstad]

Personally, I really like the old U87 a lot (the new ones is not Neumann, but Sennheiser..)
If You buy an old 87, the capsule may be bad etc.

The iFet7 is not identical with the 87 or 47, but very close. And it`s NEW!!

I don`t say gear is "vintage", but OLD! Caps are drying out, bad tube-sockels..You name it. If You spend $ on old gear, it`s great.

Finstad

[Charlie-O]

Originally posted by Finstad
Personally, I really like the old U87 a lot (the new ones is not Neumann, but Sennheiser..)

Are you saying the new U87 mics are noit made by neumann, but there made by Sennheiser?

[chessparov]

IMHO two excellent vocal mics to consider adding to your Neumann would be either the EV RE20,
or the RE16.

Either would be handy for any VO's and they're easy microphones for less experienced "studio" singers (like me!) to use. What's funny is that the mid-range of a RE16 (or RE15) sounds pretty similar to the U87 to me, and this concurs with a pro AE like Paul Stamler.

Another two potential benefits are that any issues with room acoustics are lessened,
and if you have a band that actually plays TOGETHER(gasp!) you could studio record easier.

Chris

[Dor]

Ok. I did a bunch of research and decided to purchase the rosetta 200. Should be here in a few days. Can't wait Now i need to save my cash for a 1073 reissue & my itch will be scratched for a while.

Thanks!

Dor
www.boomspot.com

[Brad Lunde]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The most important element on the vocal chain is the mic.

Even the cheapie converters reproduce the vocal range well.

The mic is the first thing the voice will see so it will imprint the strongest sonic signature.

Would i recommend a U87?

It depends how it sounds with the vocalist.

Thrill is right, the mic the mic the mic. Its the mic and the speakers that change one form of energy to another and therefore where you get the biggest bang for the buck. Its an interesting side note that mics and speakers are also the least understood scientifically and most prone to individual design/manufacturing artistry or lack thereof. So money spent on transducers pays big dividends.

You have one mic-a M147-that's it! You should have many. Then you can go invest in converters, then go invest in speakers.

At the top of the craft, you see investment in a ever wider array or ever higher level of mics. Here's a real life example: Mark Needham did Killers at Cornerstone with a Drawmer 1969 as the main preamp, probably his Daking and the Neve console pres were applied too. But he had a lot of good mics-a Brauner, some Royers, some vintage Neumanns, a bunch of Shure Sm57's (on vocals and amps and drums) on and on. He had one decent set monitors that work for him (that I don't like much but he does)a second set of NS10M's to bounce back to, and one good wide dynamic converter (a Drawmer DC2496) and a pro tools rig. So in this very example, it seems it was more about mics, skill, a good room, a pair of monitors he knows. Killers got a Grammy nomination to boot!

Brad

[Dor]

Yeah. I feel what you are saying about having a nice mic cabinet. I'm going to borrow or rent a few mics to see which i dig most. The converters arrive on Tuesday ... can't wait. Thanks for recommendations.

Dor

[teknopro]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The most important element on the vocal chain is the mic.

Even the cheapie converters reproduce the vocal range well.

The mic is the first thing the voice will see so it will imprint the strongest sonic signature.

Would i recommend a U87?

It depends how it sounds with the vocalist.

NO!
The most imortant element in the vocal chain is the vocalist.
Tom Petty did vocal tracks wit a Shure SM57. Get on with it.

My hat's off to the performers and production people tonight at the Grammy awards. Regardless if I like them or not, the majorirty, if not all, of the performances were LIVE vocals and mostly if not all 'live instrumentals'.
I love it! Let this be an inspiration to ALL perfromances of every kind in the future.
Maybe there is hope to bring "LIFE" back to every corner of this art we call music!
This proves that we still have talent out there and makes us all realize that these people got the gig because they have talent. Show it! Sing it! Play it!

[Brad Lunde]

Originally posted by teknopro
NO!
The most imortant element in the vocal chain is the vocalist.
Tom Petty did vocal tracks wit a Shure SM57. Get on with it.

<SNIP>

If its a lousy vocalist does it even qualify as "vocals"? Would you really want to record it?

The question is what happens AFTER the singer.

Yes Tom Petty uses SM57's [and whole long list of other mics].
Do you think that he used an SM57 means mics don't matter? I sure hope not!
Brad

[Dor]

So, I grabbed my ad/da unit & am now thinking of getting either a new mic or a preamp (neve 1073). i'm really diggin' the thoughs of a sweet eq & pre but have I got pre amp fever?. I've recorded on Neves and do recognize the big sound. I recorded an album on a 50xx series. Would my quality be on par with that desk? I believe it had 1080's or something on it. Would a better mic be a a smarter upgrade option with my current rig? I do dig the m147 despite what others have written ....Thanks in advance.

Dor
www.boomspot.com

Avalon 737
Focusrite ISA 220
Neumann m147
motu 828mkII.
Mackie HR828's.
Rosetta 200

[karatemanjohnny]

Hey Dor,

You got the Rosetta 200 - did it get you what you wanted?

"I am hoping this will give me better imaging & add more dimension to my tracks"

I'm very curious to know, thanks.

- John

[Dor]

I certainly noticed an improvement on pre recorded material clocked to the rosetta. I need to grab a volume knob for my monitors so I can monitor directly from the d/a's as i'm currently using a yamaha 01v for monitoring ... I have a feeling that will make a big difference.

I recorded some acoustic guitar at 24/96k & was pleasantly suprised at how amazing it sounded. Very smooth and less brittle recorded thru this chain > m147/737/rosetta/828. I am more than happy with the 200.

D