I need "guide" compression on drums at tracking stage, what do YOU need to have?

[Jules]

Since I moved over to PT years ago - the sound of uncompressed drums at the band tracking stage is unbearable for me..

So I set up a mild compressor plug in accross my drum group - then I am happy...


What do YOU need to have set up at the tracking stage / start of a session?

What FX / plug in / hardware cant you live without?

[Crushed]

I find that a little 60hz, a dip at 315hz, and a little at 8khz from the UAD-1 Pultec is a great start.

Then, I'll put either a vintage warmer, UAD-1 Fairchild, or a Sonalksis Compressor on it. Just a little to tame the wild transients.

Followed by a smidgeon of either SIR Reverb, or maybe a little Plate 140.

It's all pretty easy from here.

Allen

[Jules]

[thethrillfactor]

Jules,

Why not pick up a used 2 inch 16 track?

Analog gives you the best 'tracking"compression for drums,bass and electric guitars.

[lucey]

Now you're talkin !

Or a 1" 8 track ... saw a Studer in the UK for around $1000 recently

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Why not pick up a used 2 inch 16 track?

no more tape available?


i dont need anything but the drums tuned great, some mics and some pre's and convertors [and anything else that happens to make its way into the signal chain to disk]

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by alphajerk
no more tape available?

Tape is still available if you want it as far as i know.

[Messiah]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Jules,

Why not pick up a used 2 inch 16 track?

Analog gives you the best 'tracking"compression for drums,bass and electric guitars.

I was at a friends studio the other day and he's just picked up an 8 track 2" head for his Otari!

I can't wait to get my hands on that baby, I've just got to wait for him to pick up an Otari to go with it now!

His plan is to have one 8 track and one 16 track, both 2", synced up. His studio should be very good for tracking once it's done.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Messiah
I was at a friends studio the other day and he's just picked up an 8 track 2" head for his Otari!

I can't wait to get my hands on that baby, I've just got to wait for him to pick up an Otari to go with it now!

His plan is to have one 8 track and one 16 track, both 2", synced up. His studio should be very good for tracking once it's done.

Well Carl,

Not to blow your bubble but it is an Otari.

Otari aren't the greatest machines in terms of sound(my own bias towards Otari multitrack machines).

I was thinking more of an Ampex or Stephens.

More of a boutique machine.

Kinda like a big vintage compressor/effects box.

[lucey]

Yup ...got 2 x MM1200 16tracks right here

Use one now and the other soon.

30 tracks of 2" 16....mmmmmmmmmm

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by lucey
Yup ...got 2 x MM1200 16tracks right here

Use one now and the other soon.

30 tracks of 2" 16 ....

mmmmmmmmmm

Any problems with your transport?

I've had (2) MM12000 at different times and always had problems with the transports,namely doing punches.

Basically when i used it, i let the musicians play through till the end of the reels.

I also used it to dump ProTool tracks that needed a little something.

I sold my last one when i changed studios.

Miss it.

[Messiah]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Well Carl,

Not to blow your bubble but it is an Otari.

Otari aren't the greatest machines in terms of sound(my own bias towards Otari multitrack machines).

I was thinking more of an Ampex or Stephens.

More of a boutique machine.

Kinda like a big vintage compressor/effects box.

Of course, boutique would be great, but I'm pretty sure he can't justify it to himself. His plan is to use the new 8 track for tracking and then mastering to, when and where required.
When he told me, my immediate thought was how much I'd love to do a project with only an 8 track. Not looking at a computer screen and putting off decision after decision seems like bliss to me right now...

Anyway, tracking... I really like to have an SSL Quad comp in the vicinity, or a Smart C1/2.

[lucey]

right on ... the MM transport is the weak link but with it tweaked right I have no problems. the MDA transistors go out then youre set... ATR does my work on that

the machine i use has no constant tention kit and it runs more stable than the other that does !?

as for stability I let it run all day every day and I always do a 10 minute alignment (record only) and set the transport on the mark b4 a session (only 10 days a month on average). running all the time it's very stable.

For punches the PURC cards I bought are not tweakd right and so I go stock ...

just had ATR build a footswitch for punch IN and OUT out of a dual momentary from Roland .. so it will be the fastest timing possible, and no back pain for my twisty spine!

now to find another Lynx module and I'll be ready for 30 tracks. JRF just did the B machine heads ... 65%+


in NYC there's the 24 track Kooster McAllister is selling if you want back in

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by lucey



in NYC there's the 24 track Kooster McAllister is selling if you want back in

24 track for me right now is too much.

If i needed it i'd find a Studer A800 or A820 somewhere.

16 tracks is plenty.

Now if i could figure out away to transport it up and down NYC when doing these PT drum/bass/guitar tracking dates i'd be set.

[lucey]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor

Now if i could figure out away to transport it up and down NYC when doing these PT drum/bass/guitar tracking dates i'd be set.

The Mobile 8 track 1" would be nice


Maybe get some work with Dre .. I hear he's all analog and all real musicians ?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by lucey
The Mobile 8 track 1" would be nice


Maybe get some work with Dre .. I hear he's all analog and all real musicians ?

With 8 tracks i would have to sacrifice one track for SMPTE.

Get work with Dre?

Yeah sure why not, i am sure it be a lot of fun.

I don't get many tracking gigs anymore(more of a choice thing).

But when i do its more rock acts and old school soul and blues groups(GQ,Kool and the Gang,Black Ivory).


This is year i may get to work with the "wicked" Pickett himself.

[lucey]

sure .. you'd need 16 tracks


Dre is my fave hip hop producer .. he just wanders around whispering in the ear of his musicians and they play what he wants

sounds like loops ... but it's not



He doesn't mix guitars though

[Dave Martin]

I've got a little Daking on kick and snare - that's it....

[Slider]

Originally posted by lucey
The Mobile 8 track 1" would be nice


Maybe get some work with Dre .. I hear he's all analog and all real musicians ?

Dr. Dre tracks to PT HD now.
And a lot of his stuff is programmed, as well as real players.

Back to the subject.
I always had outboard on the returns during tracking.
I worked that way for years.
Monitoring out of the computer with no compression or EQ is really boring for me.
So I still run the returns through a console and just patch a couple things in while we're tracking.
That way I can get it sounding a bit more exciting for my own sanity.
I've tried using plugs on groups while tracking, but some of them add a bit of latency on my system.
So I mostly stick to the outboard if I can.

[robindore]

Hi,

I find that setting up some parallel buss compression in Pro Tools is quite easy and effective towards monitoring a "finished" drum sound without affecting what goes to disk. I'll buss drum tracks to two stereo aux ins, put TimeAdjuster on one aux and the PT Limiter on the other aux. Next I'll set up the limiter with some fast constants and about 15 db of limiting, and increase the gain 15 db. Now mix the squashed aux with the clean aux. It's a tried and true trick that Richard Dodd mentioned in the analog domain, but I find it works just fine in PT as long as latency between the two auxs is compensated for.

Roger

[Screws]

Fatso on kick and snare - Buss Comp and Tranny plus enough gain to hit "Pinned" every now and then.

[Drumsound]

During tracking I want to hear what I'm recording, nothing extra.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Thrill and Lucey... you are both SO right about the AMPEX decks.

I have owned 4 mm1200's over the eyars and whilst the transport (being rather clunky and 'steam driven') is the sure weakness amongst the deck the sonics, if set up right are pure analog bliss, and to me are what 'Analog' sounds like and people still strive to achieve.

The MDA's are a bitch when they blow so its allways handy to have a few of them spare. Purc cards work well in a tracking situation but i could never get my ones to punch like our 'black box' modded JH-24 @ the studio.... or a 820/827.

If people are serious about the tape sound they should seek our a 2" 16 track and get down to business. It will be a love hate affir in terms of maintenance and finding a tech to look over it and or keep it in line, but once they are settled there is notmuch work needed on them unless something actually breaks on it or goes down on you mid session. But in relaity they are no different from mtr 90's or 820/827's in terms of breaking down cos they all break @ some stage! But a GOOD RELIABLE tech is a must regarless of deck brand.

They are so cheap now and will prolly only get cheaper!

Wiggy

[Jules]

Originally posted by robindore
Hi,

I find that setting up some parallel buss compression in Pro Tools is quite easy and effective towards monitoring a "finished" drum sound without affecting what goes to disk. I'll buss drum tracks to two stereo aux ins, put TimeAdjuster on one aux and the PT Limiter on the other aux. Next I'll set up the limiter with some fast constants and about 15 db of limiting, and increase the gain 15 db. Now mix the squashed aux with the clean aux. It's a tried and true trick that Richard Dodd mentioned in the analog domain, but I find it works just fine in PT as long as latency between the two auxs is compensated for.

Roger

BTW - A TIP - when doing this sort of thing in a DAW - you can send the tracking musicians the drum from the indevidual record channels so they dont suffer and latency from plug ins in their foldback..

[Gie-Sound]

Originally posted by Screws
Fatso on kick and snare - Buss Comp and Tranny plus enough gain to hit "Pinned" every now and then.

yepp me toooo!
But sometimes I leave out the compressor and just drive the Fatso so I get pinned on 80% (?!) of the hits....

[subspace]

Originally posted by Jules
What do YOU need to have set up at the tracking stage / start of a session?

What FX / plug in / hardware cant you live without?

I started out recording a lot of bands live to 2-track and have recently started incorporating that into my multi-tracking routine. Since I track the drums through console pres, I mult the insert send to individual A/Ds while also assigning all the channels to a stereo bus. I shoot for a finished drum sound on that stereo bus from the first time I hit record, and record it along with all the individual drum tracks. I keep it dry for the most part, but do patch compression/ EQ in on the side of the mult feeding the insert return. So I monitor the drum mix before any conversion as does the band.
Since I started doing this, I've found I'm getting better drum sounds which hang together than what I was able to do with the separately recorded drums. Maybe I'm just a better live mixer but I think it may have something to do with mixing the direct mic signals on an analog board before ever converting to digital. I do still blend in the separately recorded tracks at mix, but in more of a mult/ additive sense or for f/x sends.
Anyways, that's what I now have to set-up at the tracking stage to feel like I'm doing the best work I can do.

[TML]