Power conditioners...Which one?

sricabla · 2nd February 2005, 02:41 PM

Furman and Monster seem to be the major players in power conditioning.Who's using what for their home studio? Do they really make a difference?

Thanks in advance

C/G · 2nd February 2005, 05:09 PM

I am using the Furman PM PRO-D series 2 conditioners. Good price on them. As far as Monster Cable products, can't comment but since they are hot on the legal scene and trying to sue everyone, I would avoid them, but that is just me. Check out the thread on power conditioning on the 3db audio forum. I learned quite a bit. The Furman site also has some great info.

Jim Williams · 2nd February 2005, 06:13 PM

Every one I tried out sucked the details and balls of the music. These devices are current limiters. One I tried costs over 5K and had analog and digital AC outlets. It also had a remote control you could use to switch it completely out. Guess what? It sounded great when you switched it out!

Save your money and by a nice mic.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

lucey · 2nd February 2005, 06:51 PM

I use a Furman 20A Balanced Power transformer that follows a Tripp Lite 30A battery back up.

Equitech also makes a nice balanced power supply.

No Noise , no brown outs, total fredom from lightening and power failures (at least for a few minutes)

Cheaper power "Conditioners" seem like a joke, unfortunately.

C/G · 2nd February 2005, 09:25 PM

So, most cheaper power conditioners are a joke? What abot voltage regulators? Is basically the only thing worth while doing, is buying an isolated power transformer?

lucey · 2nd February 2005, 09:40 PM

Tripp Lite has a little brown out killer/conditioner for around $350, 20A .. it's fine.

But it's better to get balanced power IMO.

Equitech from Atlas Pro for example ...

C/G · 2nd February 2005, 09:58 PM

Damn! I just bought one of those 20A Furman PM PRO D conditioners. Have not really noticed any difference either way. Should I just take it back and put the cash somewhere else? Like a balanced and isolated transformer? Sorry to Hijack the thread but now I am totally confused. Again!

not_so_new · 2nd February 2005, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Williams
Every one I tried out sucked the details and balls of the music. These devices are current limiters. One I tried costs over 5K and had analog and digital AC outlets. It also had a remote control you could use to switch it completely out. Guess what? It sounded great when you switched it out!

Save your money and by a nice mic.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

So if I have this right Jim you are saying that it is best to run power right from the wall "as is" unconditioned?? Nothing you have tried does the trick huh??

What does a voltage meter on the back side of one of these units look like, ever tried??

I just ask because my converters opened up a bit when I started using my Leibert always on UPS and Monster regulator.

Any recommendations on what does work then?? Pretty scary proposition to leave your gear hanging out on the grid for lighting and brownouts.

C/G · 2nd February 2005, 10:45 PM

Well, the Furman is going back and I am going to have to order an Equitech balanced unit.

not_so_new · 2nd February 2005, 11:07 PM

Hey Colin.

You really should do a search here at GS. There are PLENTY of good suggestions about power around here. One thing that I use is an always on UPS. Learned that one here at GS.

An always on unit plugs into the wall to trickle charge the battery. The back side of the unit is always running on battery (hence "always on") and you get constant regulated clean power because you are separated from the house power by the battery.

You have to watch because some of these UPS units put out square waves when on battery but most of the quality always on units are fine.

Jim's comments are interesting and I am waiting to hear back about that but for me my always on UPS has been great and it is MUCH cheaper then getting an Equitech.

Hope this helps...

Rock on....

lucey · 2nd February 2005, 11:40 PM

a UPS is a back up

Equitech or Furman are Balanced Power

different animals, best to have both

C/G · 2nd February 2005, 11:50 PM

I plan on getting both. I have scoured the posts on coditioning. Kind of confusing but I'm getting it. I thought I might be ok with a conditioner but the balanced route is the way to go. I will just spend the cash and stop screwing around. Any suggested brands of UPS's to check out?

lukejs · 3rd February 2005, 12:20 AM

I bought two Belkin 450 watt UPS units that do the "trickle" thing mentioned earlier. These are for pc's ... but I'm hoping they will work fine for my gear ? They boast that they provide clean power, so I figured they will work. will they ?

Carlos Boll · 3rd February 2005, 12:31 AM

A UPS unit is great to have on your computer - just in case.

For overall power I've been using the Richard Gray RGPC 400 Pro with great results. The sound is more open and the noise has dropped. html

I have one on the stereo as well where it make a huge difference.

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/index2

nlc201 · 3rd February 2005, 02:01 AM

Remember a very important fact if you choose to get balanced power: Reconnect the grounds at all audio inputs!

If you follow the conventional wisdom of studio wiring, that is, "source-shielding" you may be in for a major headache in reconnecting the ground lead at all inputs on your gear. While the Equitechs work fine without the grounds connected, they usually work much better with.

It could mean just a little soldering......or it could be re-attaching EVERY input connector (if the ground lead has been clipped).....

Also take into consideration the amount of power you need. It's very wise to put all gear on the same balanced power reference (you can hook 2 equitechs together, which is cool). If you have a live room with outlets for audio gear, see if you can get them on it. Also, leave yourself a bit of headroom in terms of wattage. If your studio draws 19 amps nominally, don't stick a 20 amp supply on there or you'll be cryin' later! Also, avoid sticking lights, refridgerators, etc. blah blah blah.....

Balanced power is a complex thing and must be planned out correctly. But then again, proper studio power as a whole is very tricky. There's nothing like good power to bring the sound of a studio up a notch or two....

not_so_new · 3rd February 2005, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lucey
a UPS is a back up

Equitech or Furman are Balanced Power

different animals, best to have both

Not true.. did you bother to read my post?? Not picking a fight but a true "trickle power" or "always on" UPS is BALANCED CONDITIONED power, at least from all the white papers I have read (I am a computer sys admin as well as a recording geek).

The back side of a true always on UPS is line regulated voltage. Now I sure as hell could be wrong (I am wrong about something everyday of my life) but if I am right that the inverter is being fed by DC off the battery or the DC bus then the unit is providing conditioned power and it is the same animal as the Equitech or Furman.

Liebert

FULL POWER CONDITIONING

The premium UPS topology is the true on-line or double-conversion product shown in Figure 4 below. Incoming AC power is rectified to DC power to supply the internal DC bus of the UPS. The output inverter takes the DC power and produces regulated AC power to support the critical load. Batteries attached to the DC bus are float charged during normal operation. When the input power is out of spec, the batteries provide power to support the inverter and critical load.

nlc201 · 3rd February 2005, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by not_so_new
Not true.. did you bother to read my post?? Not picking a fight but a true "trickle power" or "always on" UPS is BALANCED CONDITIONED power, at least from all the white papers I have read (I am a computer sys admin as well as a recording geek).

While you are absolutely correct that the higher model does indeed "re-create" the AC signal via a conversion to DC, there is nothing in this white paper to suggest that the output is "balanced".

What is balanced power?

It's the stability of the ground created by the center tap on those huge toroidal transformers that really seems to benefit audio gear.....

So, from what I can derive from the specs on the noted UPS, it simply recreates a very stable version of what comes out of the wall. While beneficial to gear no doubt, it is NOT the same as an Equitech.

bunnerabb · 3rd February 2005, 03:32 AM

True power conditioning is a bit dodgy.

For one thing, the lines that bring the power to your service panel are certainly not up to the spec of the "critical use" 129.00 Edison connectors and high-end AWG cables that you might tack onto the ass-end of that panel. They don't "clean" anything.

The other thing about power is that neutral legs are incestuous. You're not just using YOUR neutral line, you're sharing it with every Billy Bloke on your block that shares the same transformer feed.

I highly recommend Neutral Isolation Transofrmers for critical applications like audio - especially in remote rigs - and to have sufficient uninterruptable power supplies tacked on, after.

Also, noise sniffers can help you sort out not only line noise, but sources.

DC motors, resistive dimmers and refrigeration utilities are all sources of serious line noise and EMF hash, and should be nowhere near your primary or secondary A/C feeds.

not_so_new · 3rd February 2005, 04:27 AM

Fair enough, guess I am wrong and I stand corrected.

The only thing I can say is my rig does sound better with my UPS system. I do not hear crap on my line from the frig or from our HVAC or heat unit. I guess it is not as good as the Equitech but I paid $75 in Ebay and it does help so that is worth something right?? $75 is cheap and I got more than that in sound quality from it so I have no complaints.

Thanks guys.

faeflora · 3rd February 2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by not_so_new
Not true.. did you bother to read my post?? Not picking a fight but a true "trickle power" or "always on" UPS is BALANCED CONDITIONED power, at least from all the white papers I have read (I am a computer sys admin as well as a recording geek).

The back side of a true always on UPS is line regulated voltage. Now I sure as hell could be wrong (I am wrong about something everyday of my life) but if I am right that the inverter is being fed by DC off the battery or the DC bus then the unit is providing conditioned power and it is the same animal as the Equitech or Furman.

Liebert

Dude, a Liebert is also VERY different from a Triplight or APS.

not_so_new · 3rd February 2005, 03:28 PM

Dude...... did you read the post above yours were I said "Fair enough, guess I am wrong and I stand corrected."??

C/G · 3rd February 2005, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nlc201
Remember a very important fact if you choose to get balanced power: Reconnect the grounds at all audio inputs!

If you follow the conventional wisdom of studio wiring, that is, "source-shielding" you may be in for a major headache in reconnecting the ground lead at all inputs on your gear. While the Equitechs work fine without the grounds connected, they usually work much better with.

It could mean just a little soldering......or it could be re-attaching EVERY input connector (if the ground lead has been clipped).....

Also take into consideration the amount of power you need. It's very wise to put all gear on the same balanced power reference (you can hook 2 equitechs together, which is cool). If you have a live room with outlets for audio gear, see if you can get them on it. Also, leave yourself a bit of headroom in terms of wattage. If your studio draws 19 amps nominally, don't stick a 20 amp supply on there or you'll be cryin' later! Also, avoid sticking lights, refridgerators, etc. blah blah blah.....

Balanced power is a complex thing and must be planned out correctly. But then again, proper studio power as a whole is very tricky. There's nothing like good power to bring the sound of a studio up a notch or two....

This is going to be more difficult than I expected. We record in a large rehearsal space that we rent monthly right now. We record and jam in the same room. We are in the process of trying to find our own building right now so which ever route I choose to go with, it has to be portable or not permanent. That is where the equitech box comes in. I was hoping to buy one of those and plug all of our gear into it and hope for the best, until we get a dedicated space. Is that wishful thinking? I was looking at the 15 amp model. Would it be better to get a 20 amp model just in case? The Furman box I had was 20 amp but could run off 15 amp as well with a wall adapter plug. Could I run a 20 amp Equitech box off 15 amp wall recepticle until we find our permanent space which would be wired for 20 amps? I certainly dont want to reconfigure cables and grounding ect. (insert sound of me hitting my head against the wall). By no means is our room going to run on a commercial level, it is just for me and my friends bands who want to record so we do have a budget. I think the Equitech box I was looking at is about $1800, plus a UPS for the computer.

Jim Williams · 3rd February 2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by not_so_new
So if I have this right Jim you are saying that it is best to run power right from the wall "as is" unconditioned?? Nothing you have tried does the trick huh??

What does a voltage meter on the back side of one of these units look like, ever tried??

I just ask because my converters opened up a bit when I started using my Leibert always on UPS and Monster regulator.

Any recommendations on what does work then?? Pretty scary proposition to leave your gear hanging out on the grid for lighting and brownouts.

For line noise, I put in a Corcom filter into each piece. For transmission sags or noise, a large isolation transformer mounted external to the building will do the trick. Then you can install an audio ground rod and float the AC from the rest of the building. You could even get an electrician to install hospital grade AC jacks into the wall. While at it, use the split secondary from the iso transformer to wire the AC + - 60 volts or balanced power. An 80 to 100 amp iso transformer will run about a grand but will eliminate common AC problems.

The plus is no more current limiting. =Big bass!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

7rojo7 · 3rd February 2005, 08:22 PM

A UPS won't like your isolation transformer output, it's better to use an isolation transformer after the UPS.

Chad · 4th February 2005, 04:40 AM

You have to remember that Jim Williams hates everything. I have a damn good feeling that there are plenty of recordings out there that were recorded on equipment that was powered off of furman or equitech power boxes that are much better than what jim is capable of, thats why he is a gear modifier and not a world respected recording engineer.

natpub · 4th February 2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chad
You have to remember that Jim Williams hates everything. I have a damn good feeling that there are plenty of recordings out there that were recorded on equipment that was powered off of furman or equitech power boxes that are much better than what jim is capable of, thats why he is a gear modifier and not a world respected recording engineer.

somehow, him offering advice to save someone some money didn't seem very hateful to me

Synth80s · 4th February 2005, 09:38 AM

Just something to think about: where you record (location and building) can drastically alter the value proposition of expensive power equipment.

My old late 1940s apartment at the beach had the sh*ttiest power imaginable -- spikes, noise, brownouts. Yikes! Still, I had neither the means nor the incentive (knowing I was moving soon) to spend what was necessary to solve the power problems.

When we bought a place (built in 1987), I was preparing to have some power work done and buy some equipment, but the power seemed very clean and stable and a visit from an electrician confirmed that I wouldn't gain much even if I spent quite a bit on power equipment in this place.

So...more toys for me! ;)

Anyhow, something to consider if you're wondering if you *need* expensive power conditioning -- there's no need to solve a problem that doesn't exist! If you've got a real problem, that's another story.

-Synth80s

oudplayer · 4th February 2005, 10:50 PM

I'll second that the Furman PL-series power units (I haven't checked the "series two" units, I'm referring to their MOV-technology PL-8 etc.) absolutely KILL the sound. They also progressively kill the sound more as they age. MOVs are to be avoided at that phase in your electrical install...

I had great luck curing the worst of the power problems in my home studio with a Liebert online UPS. Got it used on ebay for $150 (retails for $800).

Buddhaman · 5th February 2005, 03:23 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by not_so_new
So if I have this right Jim you are saying that it is best to run power right from the wall "as is" unconditioned?? Nothing you have tried does the trick huh??

What does a voltage meter on the back side of one of these units look like, ever tried??

I just ask because my converters opened up a bit when I started using my Leibert always on UPS and Monster regulator.

Any recommendations on what does work then?? Pretty scary proposition to leave your gear hanging out on the grid for lighting and brownouts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For line noise, I put in a Corcom filter into each piece. For transmission sags or noise, a large isolation transformer mounted external to the building will do the trick. Then you can install an audio ground rod and float the AC from the rest of the building. You could even get an electrician to install hospital grade AC jacks into the wall. While at it, use the split secondary from the iso transformer to wire the AC + - 60 volts or balanced power. An 80 to 100 amp iso transformer will run about a grand but will eliminate common AC problems.

The plus is no more current limiting. =Big bass!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Ummm....the question was re: a home studio

not a pro studio.

I don't have a grand for an iso transformer but I do have $300 for that monster thingy which made my studio much quieter

YMMV
Buddhaman

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2nd February 2005, 02:41 PM	#1
sricabla Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 6	Power conditioners...Which one? Furman and Monster seem to be the major players in power conditioning.Who's using what for their home studio? Do they really make a difference? Thanks in advance

2nd February 2005, 06:51 PM	#4
lucey Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 7 acres near Columbus, Ohio Posts: 9,977	I use a Furman 20A Balanced Power transformer that follows a Tripp Lite 30A battery back up. Equitech also makes a nice balanced power supply. No Noise , no brown outs, total fredom from lightening and power failures (at least for a few minutes) Cheaper power "Conditioners" seem like a joke, unfortunately. __________________ Brian Lucey Magic Garden Mastering "beauty resists capture" "the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

2nd February 2005, 09:40 PM	#6
lucey Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 7 acres near Columbus, Ohio Posts: 9,977	Tripp Lite has a little brown out killer/conditioner for around $350, 20A .. it's fine. But it's better to get balanced power IMO. Equitech from Atlas Pro for example ... __________________ Brian Lucey Magic Garden Mastering "beauty resists capture" "the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

2nd February 2005, 11:07 PM	#10
not_so_new Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,591	Hey Colin. You really should do a search here at GS. There are PLENTY of good suggestions about power around here. One thing that I use is an always on UPS. Learned that one here at GS. An always on unit plugs into the wall to trickle charge the battery. The back side of the unit is always running on battery (hence "always on") and you get constant regulated clean power because you are separated from the house power by the battery. You have to watch because some of these UPS units put out square waves when on battery but most of the quality always on units are fine. Jim's comments are interesting and I am waiting to hear back about that but for me my always on UPS has been great and it is MUCH cheaper then getting an Equitech. Hope this helps... Rock on.... __________________ Michael

2nd February 2005, 05:09 PM	#2
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,803	I am using the Furman PM PRO-D series 2 conditioners. Good price on them. As far as Monster Cable products, can't comment but since they are hot on the legal scene and trying to sue everyone, I would avoid them, but that is just me. Check out the thread on power conditioning on the 3db audio forum. I learned quite a bit. The Furman site also has some great info.

2nd February 2005, 06:13 PM	#3
Jim Williams Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 4,335	Every one I tried out sucked the details and balls of the music. These devices are current limiters. One I tried costs over 5K and had analog and digital AC outlets. It also had a remote control you could use to switch it completely out. Guess what? It sounded great when you switched it out! Save your money and by a nice mic. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

2nd February 2005, 09:25 PM	#5
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,803	So, most cheaper power conditioners are a joke? What abot voltage regulators? Is basically the only thing worth while doing, is buying an isolated power transformer?

2nd February 2005, 09:58 PM	#7
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,803	Damn! I just bought one of those 20A Furman PM PRO D conditioners. Have not really noticed any difference either way. Should I just take it back and put the cash somewhere else? Like a balanced and isolated transformer? Sorry to Hijack the thread but now I am totally confused. Again!

2nd February 2005, 10:45 PM	#9
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,803	Well, the Furman is going back and I am going to have to order an Equitech balanced unit.

2nd February 2005, 11:40 PM	#11
lucey Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 7 acres near Columbus, Ohio Posts: 9,977	a UPS is a back up Equitech or Furman are Balanced Power different animals, best to have both __________________ Brian Lucey Magic Garden Mastering "beauty resists capture" "the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

2nd February 2005, 11:50 PM	#12
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,803	I plan on getting both. I have scoured the posts on coditioning. Kind of confusing but I'm getting it. I thought I might be ok with a conditioner but the balanced route is the way to go. I will just spend the cash and stop screwing around. Any suggested brands of UPS's to check out?

3rd February 2005, 12:20 AM	#13
lukejs Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas Posts: 637	I bought two Belkin 450 watt UPS units that do the "trickle" thing mentioned earlier. These are for pc's ... but I'm hoping they will work fine for my gear ? They boast that they provide clean power, so I figured they will work. will they ?

3rd February 2005, 12:31 AM	#14
Carlos Boll Gear addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 440	A UPS unit is great to have on your computer - just in case. For overall power I've been using the Richard Gray RGPC 400 Pro with great results. The sound is more open and the noise has dropped. html I have one on the stereo as well where it make a huge difference. http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/index2 __________________ Carlos Boll

3rd February 2005, 02:01 AM	#15
nlc201 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 458	Remember a very important fact if you choose to get balanced power: Reconnect the grounds at all audio inputs! If you follow the conventional wisdom of studio wiring, that is, "source-shielding" you may be in for a major headache in reconnecting the ground lead at all inputs on your gear. While the Equitechs work fine without the grounds connected, they usually work much better with. It could mean just a little soldering......or it could be re-attaching EVERY input connector (if the ground lead has been clipped)..... Also take into consideration the amount of power you need. It's very wise to put all gear on the same balanced power reference (you can hook 2 equitechs together, which is cool). If you have a live room with outlets for audio gear, see if you can get them on it. Also, leave yourself a bit of headroom in terms of wattage. If your studio draws 19 amps nominally, don't stick a 20 amp supply on there or you'll be cryin' later! Also, avoid sticking lights, refridgerators, etc. blah blah blah..... Balanced power is a complex thing and must be planned out correctly. But then again, proper studio power as a whole is very tricky. There's nothing like good power to bring the sound of a studio up a notch or two....

3rd February 2005, 03:32 AM	#18
bunnerabb Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Big Wide City Posts: 1,083	True power conditioning is a bit dodgy. For one thing, the lines that bring the power to your service panel are certainly not up to the spec of the "critical use" 129.00 Edison connectors and high-end AWG cables that you might tack onto the ass-end of that panel. They don't "clean" anything. The other thing about power is that neutral legs are incestuous. You're not just using YOUR neutral line, you're sharing it with every Billy Bloke on your block that shares the same transformer feed. I highly recommend Neutral Isolation Transofrmers for critical applications like audio - especially in remote rigs - and to have sufficient uninterruptable power supplies tacked on, after. Also, noise sniffers can help you sort out not only line noise, but sources. DC motors, resistive dimmers and refrigeration utilities are all sources of serious line noise and EMF hash, and should be nowhere near your primary or secondary A/C feeds. __________________ "It CAN be done. You can drive a car with your feet, but that don't make it a good f*cking idea". - Chris Rock

3rd February 2005, 04:27 AM	#19
not_so_new Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,591	Fair enough, guess I am wrong and I stand corrected. The only thing I can say is my rig does sound better with my UPS system. I do not hear crap on my line from the frig or from our HVAC or heat unit. I guess it is not as good as the Equitech but I paid $75 in Ebay and it does help so that is worth something right?? $75 is cheap and I got more than that in sound quality from it so I have no complaints. Thanks guys. __________________ Michael

3rd February 2005, 03:28 PM	#21
not_so_new Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,591	Dude...... did you read the post above yours were I said "Fair enough, guess I am wrong and I stand corrected."?? __________________ Michael

3rd February 2005, 08:22 PM	#24
7rojo7 urumita Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy Posts: 1,284	A UPS won't like your isolation transformer output, it's better to use an isolation transformer after the UPS. __________________ love and light

4th February 2005, 04:40 AM	#25
Chad Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Baltimore Posts: 218	You have to remember that Jim Williams hates everything. I have a damn good feeling that there are plenty of recordings out there that were recorded on equipment that was powered off of furman or equitech power boxes that are much better than what jim is capable of, thats why he is a gear modifier and not a world respected recording engineer.

4th February 2005, 09:38 AM	#27
Synth80s Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beautiful Southern California (cough, choke, honk) Posts: 753	Just something to think about: where you record (location and building) can drastically alter the value proposition of expensive power equipment. My old late 1940s apartment at the beach had the shttiest power imaginable -- spikes, noise, brownouts. Yikes! Still, I had neither the means nor the incentive (knowing I was moving soon) to spend what was necessary to solve the power problems. When we bought a place (built in 1987), I was preparing to have some power work done and buy some equipment, but the power seemed very clean and stable and a visit from an electrician confirmed that I wouldn't gain much even if I spent quite a bit on power equipment in this place. So...more toys for me! ;) Anyhow, something to consider if you're wondering if you need* expensive power conditioning -- there's no need to solve a problem that doesn't exist! If you've got a real problem, that's another story. -Synth80s

4th February 2005, 10:50 PM	#28
oudplayer Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 582	I'll second that the Furman PL-series power units (I haven't checked the "series two" units, I'm referring to their MOV-technology PL-8 etc.) absolutely KILL the sound. They also progressively kill the sound more as they age. MOVs are to be avoided at that phase in your electrical install... I had great luck curing the worst of the power problems in my home studio with a Liebert online UPS. Got it used on ebay for $150 (retails for $800). __________________ -oudplayer ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ World music recording, mixing, and mastering musiq.com myspace.com/oudplayer ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

5th February 2005, 03:23 AM	#29
Buddhaman Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: CT Posts: 458	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by not_so_new So if I have this right Jim you are saying that it is best to run power right from the wall "as is" unconditioned?? Nothing you have tried does the trick huh?? What does a voltage meter on the back side of one of these units look like, ever tried?? I just ask because my converters opened up a bit when I started using my Leibert always on UPS and Monster regulator. Any recommendations on what does work then?? Pretty scary proposition to leave your gear hanging out on the grid for lighting and brownouts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For line noise, I put in a Corcom filter into each piece. For transmission sags or noise, a large isolation transformer mounted external to the building will do the trick. Then you can install an audio ground rod and float the AC from the rest of the building. You could even get an electrician to install hospital grade AC jacks into the wall. While at it, use the split secondary from the iso transformer to wire the AC + - 60 volts or balanced power. An 80 to 100 amp iso transformer will run about a grand but will eliminate common AC problems. The plus is no more current limiting. =Big bass! Jim Williams Audio Upgrades Ummm....the question was re: a home studio not a pro studio. I don't have a grand for an iso transformer but I do have $300 for that monster thingy which made my studio much quieter YMMV Buddhaman __________________ "Endeavor to persevere"