Bonham drum micing technique?

[jho]

I know there's only one John, God rest his soul...so that's 99% of the sound but I'd like some detail on exactly how his kit was recorded. Micing technique, etc.

If anyone knows the type mics, placement, as well as pres and compressors used that would be helpful for an upcoming session I have with a zep stylized sounding band.

Thanks!

[everybody's x]

most of bonham's stuff was recorded with some variant of the glyn johns/andy johns technique, that is basically 3 room mics.
coles ribbons I think.

One about 3-4 feet above the snare drum pointed at the snare.

One a few inches above the rim of the floor tom pointed at the snare/hi hats

One outside the kick drum

Bonzo didn't care for close micing in general and I heard wouldn't allow it for the most part.

I also heard that he would line the inside of his kick drum with aluminum foil (don't shoot the messenger, I actually heard it from a fairly reliable source, just sayin)

IF the drummer is able to beat the shit out of the drums and ease up on the cymbals this yields some amazing results
Her's some more from mercenary



http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

[brendondp]

Originally posted by everybody's x
I also heard that he would line the inside of his kick drum with aluminum foil (don't shoot the messenger, I actually heard it from a fairly reliable source, just sayin)

It's true.

I've tried it too and goddamn got a MASSIVE kick sound. A little over the top for your average studio gig but great for a raucous live one.

Of course, it sounds much better with two heads, no holes, and miking the front head.

Cheers,

bdp

[jho]

So it's alot like the recorderman setup? I use that alot but usually augment with spots. Cool. Thanks!

Aluminum foil eh? Hey worth a try. If nothing else should help the T.V. tuning!

[not_so_new]

I also heard that he would line the inside of his kick drum with aluminum foil (don't shoot the messenger, I actually heard it from a fairly reliable source, just sayin)

I guess to make it brighter?? (pun intended) Anyway I think this would be a bad idea if you do have a hole in the front head and you are close micing the kick from the inside. If the drummer does not have anything to soak up the highs a bit like a small towel or even a wash cloth you tend to get all kinds of phase issues. The kick can end up sounding like a basket ball for many of the same reasons a basketball sounds like a basket ball, all that high end bouncing around can do bad things..

The point is…. maybe he did use foil on the inside of the drum (I believe this is true) but that does not mean that will work for you. It worked for him because of the studios they recorded in, the equipment they used, the engineer, how they set up the mics and...... oh yeah the player.

[jho]

Makes sense.

Which relates back to the original question, John aside, which mics, placement, pre's and compressors were used? I probably don't have them all ! But I can try to come as close as possible.

J

[jho]

Thanks for the answers.

As far as the the drummer...hey, the client wants to be mic'd up like zepplin, so that's what I intend to do, they pay the bills. I'm not chosing the player...he may suk he may rock, we'll see.

I'm close micing stuff as well like I normally do so I'll have all that in place as well as a saftey net.

Going to use the large room with 24" foot ceiling and hardwood floors. It's live as hell sounding in there.

BOOM!

J

[wwittman]

Bonham was recorded differently by different people on different records.
The similarities are in Jimmy Page's production taste and of course mostly in the fact that Bonham plays and sounds like Bonham.

Terry Manning has posted online before and may speak himself about recording 3.

Eddie Kramer certainly used some variation on the common London studio approach (which is oddly yet persistently referred to as the Glyn Johns method ) probably using U-47's.. not STC4038's.

Andy johns talked about using 2 M-160's from miles away in the stairway for Stairway, but I don't know that that means this was his standard approach to them either.
I do know he said that the thing that allowed that incredible Bonham sound most was that even from 40 feet away the LOUDEST part of Bonham's kit was the BASS DRUM. He had such a heavy foot in the balance that that made the sound in the distant mics.
Most drummers are certainly more top heavy (snare whcih is okay but different, or cymbals which tends to wash out the distant sound unpleasantly)

I have no idea how the later records were approached but they certainly sound different yet again.

[jho]

Originally posted by wwittman
Bonham was recorded differently by different people on different records.
The similarities are in Jimmy Page's production taste and of course mostly in the fact that Bonham plays and sounds like Bonham.

Terry Manning has posted online before and may speak himself about recording 3.

Eddie Kramer certainly used some variation on the common London studio approach (which is oddly yet persistently referred to as the Glyn Johns method ) probably using U-47's.. not STC4038's.

Andy johns talked about using 2 M-160's from miles away in the stairway for Stairway, but I don't know that that means this was his standard approach to them either.
I do know he said that the thing that allowed that incredible Bonham sound most was that even from 40 feet away the LOUDEST part of Bonham's kit was the BASS DRUM. He had such a heavy foot in the balance that that made the sound in the distant mics.
Most drummers are certainly more top heavy (snare whcih is okay but different, or cymbals which tends to wash out the distant sound unpleasantly)

I have no idea how the later records were approached but they certainly sound different yet again.

Thanks William. I'm going to print all these out. Love it. Drums are always the hardest things for me to be happy with. I've been known to f-up even the best drummers

PS: The Fixx is one of my favorites. Thanks for that!

PSS: Jules, I'd like to vote for two months of two Williams as guest moderators. First Mr Wittman, then Mr. Orbit

[alphajerk]

for that big kick sound, i like a LDC out in front of the kick about 6-8' out about 3 or so feet off the ground, maybe 4. rely on that mic for the majority of the drum sound and add others to taste.


dont know if that helps what you are after here, but i love the sound of the kick with maybe a r121 a foot or two off the kick head.

usual suspects elsewhere.

i also like LDC's as overheads, split config about 8' from the snare or so [about the same as that one out in front of the kick]

[Ted Nightshade]

It's quite unusual to have a kick drum that sounds prominent enough without flattery, but Alphajerk's approach above will make the most of whatever kick sound is going on in the room. Usually you have to exaggerate the kick quite a bit- drummers do tend to be top heavy.

I would definitely, definitely make sure the drummer has ample opportunity to listen to playbacks and mix himself as much as possible. This may take a little while, but this kind of drum recording is just not possible without the drummer mixing himself to the room and to the mics. One reason why a "drummer's perspective" mic can work in this situation.

I would thank god for the 24 foot ceiling! Your friend. Hardwood floor, not as much your friend. You'll want a drum rug and you will want to put the mics up high so that the floor bounce is significantly different in length than the direct path. Phasey things can happen with that floor bounce that weaken the sounds.

I have become very good at this, as drummer and engineer, but it took a LOT of listening back and adjusting and tuning and all that.

[Ted Nightshade]

Oh, and definitely, definitely move that bass drum all around the room until you find somewhere it really explodes!

[jho]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade
It's quite unusual to have a kick drum that sounds prominent enough without flattery, but Alphajerk's approach above will make the most of whatever kick sound is going on in the room. Usually you have to exaggerate the kick quite a bit- drummers do tend to be top heavy.

I would definitely, definitely make sure the drummer has ample opportunity to listen to playbacks and mix himself as much as possible. This may take a little while, but this kind of drum recording is just not possible without the drummer mixing himself to the room and to the mics. One reason why a "drummer's perspective" mic can work in this situation.

I would thank god for the 24 foot ceiling! Your friend. Hardwood floor, not as much your friend. You'll want a drum rug and you will want to put the mics up high so that the floor bounce is significantly different in length than the direct path. Phasey things can happen with that floor bounce that weaken the sounds.

I have become very good at this, as drummer and engineer, but it took a LOT of listening back and adjusting and tuning and all that.

Kewl. The ceiling is angled / vaulted and have big rug, will travel.

[alphajerk]

yes, and TUNE that kick the lowest fundamental tone you can legally get away with. not some sub hiphop tone, but legitimate tone. dont make it all tight and snappy. also no crap in the kick either. and full reso head.

[cgarges]

Originally posted by wwittman
Bonham was recorded differently by different people on different records.
The similarities are in Jimmy Page's production taste and of course mostly in the fact that Bonham plays and sounds like Bonham.

Thank you!

Listen to any of those records and in terms of mic placement and treatment, they all sound pretty different. The similarities are all in the player. This should become SUPER-OBVIOUS if you're using a minimal miking setup, as well.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC